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Post by chronicinsomnia on Jan 14, 2020 10:09:52 GMT -5
I currently have way and I mean way too many guitars. Some are inexpensive ie; SX, Agile, etc. Some are more expensive ie; Fender, Dean, my Warmoth. Between the modding of the cheap ones and the GAS for the perfect strat, tele, LP they all have a place in my heart. Also today's guitars have overall better manufacturing quality. So play-ability isn't the issue here.
My question is do you feel any greater connection to the more expensive instruments for your creativity or is it just another plank of wood? I know we all like to justify that prized instrument but does it provide something that you (not me or anyone else) feel makes it the "ONE". If so can you explain it?
Personally I treat all my guitars the same. I have bought some to be a "I don't give a crap what happens to this" but I end up taking as good care of my $99 SX strat as I do my American Fender. i also have a couple that I am extremely sentimental about but I treat them the same as well.
Just wanted to hear everyone's opinion.
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TBird
Wholenote
Posts: 298
Formerly Known As: greg1948
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Post by TBird on Jan 14, 2020 10:24:16 GMT -5
Having started with inexpensive clone guitars from Agile, Epiphone and LTD, I now have some name brand guitars, Fender, Gibson, PRS, Gretsch. Not the top of the line models but most were in the $1500-2500 range. Maybe it is psychological, but the differences are there, often subtle. Nicer woods, better components, more care in the finish and details, all add up to an instrument that inspires you to pick it up and play. The sound is better as is the feel. But that could be wishful-thinking to justify my spending the extra money.
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Post by Peegoo 🏁 on Jan 14, 2020 11:08:55 GMT -5
I am extremely fortunate to own a few holy-grail guitars that are so spectacular, one should be enough. My top-tier guitars are custom shop Fenders and Gibsons; I have no qualms about taking them to jams and open mics. They really do feel like they play themselves. I think perhaps that comes from the fact that they don't put up a fight to play in tune, and they always produce tones that are pleasing to my ears. They are rock solid; I can play one, and a month later pick it up and it's still in tune. Their only limiting factor is my meager playing ability. I also have guitars that I built from virtual garage sale junk that are real players and I'd have no second thoughts about taking one to a jam or open mic. Every so often I give one to someone that wants to learn guitar and is taking lessons because they start to pile up. These and all the ones in between I take care of equally because they are all tools to me--as well as being functional art pieces to park in a stand or hang on the wall and enjoy. I mention the functional art aspect because there is something magical about a guitar strictly as an object to observe and not play. I liken it to the feeling I get when walking into a Home Depot, Lowe's, a fine hardwoods dealer, etc. As an object it is something that portends things that might become reality; it's about the *possibilities* to be achieved with it. If I were a woman, I might feel the same way walking into a shoe store Additionally, there is something magic about a guitar that contains a component that was made by a friend. I don't know how to precisely describe it, but here goes. When playing a guitar like this, it's like the difference between having a slice of chocolate cake I got at the grocery store, and a cake that was baked by my grandmother (R.I.P. Grandma Mary). There is also the very personal aspect of a guitar. An electric guitar is only half of the tone equation, but most players do not develop relationships with their amps. I've thought about this a lot. I think it's because a player hugs their guitar (not the amp) when making music. It's a very strange and spiritual thing that is difficult to quantify and describe when we're limited to only 26 letters in the alphabet. Apologies for the philosophical digression. Notwithstanding all the above, however, there is one difference I began to notice, beginning about 10 years ago: I seem to play better on the mongrels and mutts. It must be something to do with the subconscious knowledge that they are cheap, and thrashing & bashing on them is less risky and no $$ down the drain if I do something stupid. I don't know exactly why that is, because I have no concerns for resale value on my mucho-dinero guitars. That doesn't ever cross my mind. I dunno! But just like you stated--the quality of 'affordable' guitars today is amazingly good, and this is the reason why I believe we are living in the golden age of guitars. We have so many choices. So many GOOD choices in every price range from really affordable to really expensive..
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Post by Leftee on Jan 14, 2020 12:37:40 GMT -5
Great topic!
I’ve got some great guitars. Some were cheapies. Some I built. Some I bought. They cost from $200 to $1500.
Great tone happens.
Great guitars are where you find them.
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Post by mojito on Jan 14, 2020 13:58:42 GMT -5
I have a bunch of guitars and I try and rotate through playing them by moving them off the wall hangers or out of their cases to a guitar stand. I really enjoy looking at them and a couple years ago got a wall rack system similar to what a guitar shop might have. My acoustics I tend to keep in cases for better humidity control. Here's a shot of part of the family.
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Post by hushnel on Jan 14, 2020 16:48:49 GMT -5
I was thinking along these lines just yesterday. I was considering the point of diminishing returns on guitars. It happens when ever I pick up that Yamaha CSF1M acoustic. Considering tone and materials makes the scale slide around too. I’m lucky that I’m not that hung up on a specific sound. Concerning electrics, I like a wide palette, generally the wider it is the more tones I find usable, but even though my 81 P Bass has a narrower tonal range what it does is amazing and usable.
This point of diminishing returns for electric instruments probably starts around a couple hundred bucks. For me, I can do so much with an inexpensive guitar if the bones are their, but they can suck up some resources in the modification. I look at it as parts are parts, the instrument, like my Squire Affinity Bronco is worth nowhere near what I paid for the the pick up, tuners and bridge. If I added up the labor and cost it would be easily a $700 instrument if I included the labor. Nobody on this rock would pay that much for a $149,00 bass. But it’s a great place to store the parts, they still have valued regardless of the neighborhood “o)
Acoustic are more difficult, the point of diminishing returns still slides around a lot. Brand, wood, style, labor, supply and demand all influence the cost. My general feeling about good guitars and great guitars is that the lower the price is the more of them you have to play to find the great one, the more expensive they are Finding the great one is quicker. At the very top you may be able to just order what you want from the best of them and be satisfied. Another aspect is the inexpensive guitar even if it’s amazing it would be difficult to ever get a used price based on it tone quality. Where if it was a top shelf instrument you could. I’d say the curve of diminishing return on acoustic is closer to $600.00.
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Post by LM on Jan 14, 2020 21:14:09 GMT -5
I've had a couple of semi-expensive guitars with which I never really bonded. They're no longer around. The guitars I have now that speak to me are in the $400-$500 range.
I really don't think there's a correlation between great guitars and money. I suspect it's more psychological. IOW, we love the pricey ones because we 'must' to justify the money we spent.
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Post by bluzcat on Jan 15, 2020 8:35:36 GMT -5
I have owned various instruments through the years and most have moved on. I was considering just the other day that the two strats and Rick I have were all bought in person. Every other guitar I’ve ever bought online has not stayed. The only “exceptions” are a VG Strat and a Tele I inherited from my dad, and a couple of inexpensive acoustics that were gifts. Now, I’m not saying one can’t find a good guitar online, it just hasn’t worked that way for me.
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Post by TonyM on Jan 15, 2020 9:03:24 GMT -5
When I was younger I had only cheap guitars that came and went. For the past 20 years I’ve had only the same three guitars. My super cheap Washburn D10 (that was less than $200), a mim HSS Strat (which was a gift so not sure but probably no more than $300-400) and my FDPLE Strat. The LE is the only one that can be considered expensive in any real way, and personally I think it’s worth the money for the neck alone.
My other mistresses are far more costly, both in purchase and maintenance cost, so these guitars are going to have to do for me for some time more.
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Post by LM on Jan 15, 2020 9:22:33 GMT -5
That option is rarely available to lefties.
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Post by Leftee on Jan 15, 2020 9:33:35 GMT -5
That option is rarely available to lefties. The last time I bought a guitar in a shop was 1999.
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Post by Sérgio on Jan 15, 2020 9:45:52 GMT -5
I never owned real expensive gear.
I began playing Asian made budget stuff, and then bought my US Fender and a Gibson SG that I didn't love and traded for a Rickenbacker. I currently own these two guitars and a 1994 made in Brazil Fender strat that I bought used, and it's modded (Emerson custom wiring, Fat 50s pickups)and I use it primarily as a stunt for the American one when I need to play in less respectable venues.
My "standard" instruments are indeed much better built than the budget ones I owned. They're far better playwise and tonewise. I do love them much more, though they see action all the time.
Now, as for even more expensive stuff, I've played tons of other guitars, custom shop stuff, vintage stuff... My theory is that you get what you pay for - up to a point. There's like a degree of instrument above which it only gets fancier and more costly, not really "better".
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Post by HenryJ on Jan 15, 2020 11:21:16 GMT -5
They are making the less-expensive guitars much better than they used to. My first guitar was a $28 Western Auto Truetone archtop acoustic. This was in 1964 (yeah, I know). Within 10 or so years the neck was warping. In 1966 my brother bought a Kingston solid body electric. In two weeks, the vibrato tailpiece just fell right off. It was cheap trash.
In 1999 I got a Squier Affinity Strat, which I still have. $179.99 plus tax. It still plays well and sounds good to my ears. I actually like it. My Gretsch Electromatic 5120 ($599 in 2008) is also still good and probably compares to a "real" 6120. So electric guitars, unlike water heaters, are made much better than they used to make them.
But I would still like a 6120. And a real Fender Strat that sells just under $2,000.
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Post by Peegoo 🏁 on Jan 15, 2020 12:07:40 GMT -5
"You get what you pay for - up to a point."
Spot on, Sérgio.
Nashville hotshot Guthrie Trapp plays a one-off custom/booteek Telecaster, and the neck pickup is out of a [GASP] made-in-Mexico Fender Telecaster.
And Guthrie gets *burnin'* tones out of it. It's his #1 player.
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Post by archiestone on Jan 15, 2020 15:31:30 GMT -5
"The Cheap and the Precious" - new soap opera on abc?
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Post by bluzcat on Jan 15, 2020 15:47:25 GMT -5
LeftyMeister, you are right about that for sure. Probably the one upside to switching to playing right handed when I first started out.
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Post by chronicinsomnia on Jan 16, 2020 8:36:19 GMT -5
I'm a lefty and the last guitar I bought in a store was between 95' and 97'. Yamaha Pacifica it was the first lefthanded guitar I had bought up to that point. Actually was the first playable lefty I had ever seen in person.
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Post by Peegoo 🏁 on Jan 16, 2020 8:53:24 GMT -5
There's a reason for that.
The Yamaha Pacifica line is largely responsible for kicking off the trend of affordable *good* guitars. Until they hit the market, the vast majority of ~$200 guitars really were junk right off the rack.
Yamaha's economy of production and QC was ground-breaking; the Pacifica guitars were easily as good as most guitars that sold for three times the price. And they're still good.
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Post by Leftee on Jan 16, 2020 9:10:51 GMT -5
I’ve never owned a Pacifica. Lefties pop up in Reverb once in a while. 🤔
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carsten
Quarternote
Posts: 15
Formerly Known As: carsten
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Post by carsten on Jan 16, 2020 16:07:06 GMT -5
Hi!
The "truth" is (imho) - they're all good, and the cheap guitars of today are (usually) way better than the cheap guitars when we were young. But you can tell a "special" guitar right away, and it´s worth looking for it!
I have/had a couple of nice, good, VERY nice guitars - but I've played some guitars that were way beyond that.
For instance, I had the pleasure of playing an early 70s Gibson ES 345 at a jam-session, and the guy who owns it said that this guitar usually knows which note you want to play next - and it was just like that! I played it again 2 years later - and the experience was the same ;-) Of course - this guitar is NOT for sale...
Also, I owned a mid-60´s Gibson ES 125 TC, and I still kick myself for letting it go. It was a beast to play, and it didn't particularly suit my style of music and yes, I needed the money - but I wrote a dozen songs with this guitar within a year. It had SO much soul (or what you want to call it) - the songs just poured out of it...
cheers - C.
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Post by LTB on Jan 21, 2020 0:22:54 GMT -5
I have run the gamut from SX, Agile, Squier, Fender MIM, Gretch, Gibson. I keep the ones that speak to me in that how the play, feel and sound and do I get that "ahh" feeling playing it. I can tell you comparatively "A beautiful woman that is ugly on the inside is just that, ugly!!!"
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Post by rickyguitar on Jan 21, 2020 3:21:10 GMT -5
I gave owned a 330, an SG,couple Les Paul's and now have an import PRS, an import G&L, and a Crafter acoustic (a Korean Hoffner I believe). I bought my last LP after I already had the G&L. It was a 50's Tribute (I think that's what they called them) and a very nice guitar but i just never really bonded with it. Kept it a couple years, sold it. The G&L has been #1 since I got it. They had 5 at the store and I tried them all, once I played that one I would not let them take it away while I tried the rest. It suits me beyond words. All my imports were around $500 and I am very happy with all of them. The LP was $2200. Got kinda wordy, sorry. It is not about ths money. Kinda funny, a few weeks back my wife played recording with that LP, sounded really good. Ok, I'll stop.
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Post by Mfitz804 on Jan 24, 2020 11:28:48 GMT -5
The Cheap and the Precious sounds like it should be a soap opera.
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Post by LTB on Jan 26, 2020 13:26:13 GMT -5
A good guitarist can make most any guitar sound good. Also a good guitar that is easy to play can make a mediocre guitarist like me sound “ better” . Having said that I have played some inexpensive guitars that just said “ahhhhhh” to me and would have loved to have. Like a previous poster said , you will probably go through many cheap ones to find that one good one while finding it much quicker going through more expensive.
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Post by guildx700 on Jan 26, 2020 22:06:51 GMT -5
I just posted this in the electric guitars and effects section about a cheap knock off versus my real strats:
I've currently got 6 Fender strats, 4 are American (one is a Malmsteen, my fav American), then 2 are Mex, a CAR one and a Burgundy Mist one, they are lovely but I hardly ever play them, hate their necks, especially the frets and the plastic neck finish. Eye candy at best. Impulse buys,,,,arrghhh..
Frankly some of my fav "Strat's" reside in my Parts O' Caster herd, of which I have 5 mutts.
My very fav "strat" however is the one I got for my wife many years back. It's a Hohner brand.
It has a really nice, lively body with a lovely, well done surf green finish. Everything about the neck is wonderful. Seriously. It has a thin satin finish, no plastic dip here. With use it has worn to a nice smooth,slick feel. The pocket fit is super tight, it has a beautiful slab of rosewood for the fingerboard, the frets are nothing short of amazingly well done with their fingerboard ends actually trimmed back into the neck so there are no fret tang ends visible, the slot ends are perfectly filled in with fingerboard color filler and are perfectly flush with the neck and fingerboard wood, you can't feel them at all. The neck profile is super comfortable and it can play clean with action set lower than one would ever want. Not sure if it's a typical example of that era Hohner, or a unicorn, but it will never leave our herd!
And although it sounded pretty darn nice with it's stock electronics, some occasional selector switch issues pushed me to take it to the next level.
I decided to go full monty with a set of Abby Custom 60's pups and premium, fresh electronics. That really woke it up, making it my #1 go to "strat. Much to the chagrin of my wife.
Seriously...the Abby pickups alone are worth probably 10 times what I paid for the guitar. But the combo really does it for me (and my wife, when she gets it away from me that is).
And I'm not the only one enamored with that lowly Hohner knockoff. Several of my friends as well as my older brother who was a 50 year guitar playing vet(now gone as of last year, RIP) really loved playing it.
Chances are the 2 Mex ones will be sold as well as 2 of the American ones. They just sit and look pretty, and rarely get played. I really dig the Malmsteem model, but the adjustment to the scalloped fingerboard is a bit much for me. Still love it though. Very well made, sounds great.
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