69tele
Halfnote
Rockin the Rock !
Posts: 91
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Post by 69tele on Jan 19, 2020 5:04:35 GMT -5
Hi folks , looking at an EKO Sg copy for a friend, its been in storage for many years... with strings. I cannot get open chords to intonate properly as all strings on first fret are sharp normally once intonation is set I would work on the nut to ensure the action is correct at first fret but this thing has a zero fret that prevents me doing that also even with the intonation set correctly on the 12th fret the rest of the board isnt not that great either using Dddario 10 guage strings any ideas ? Thanks ! Attachments:
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Post by Leftee on Jan 19, 2020 8:38:21 GMT -5
Is that 0-fret placed/spaced right? I can’t tell from the picture, but it looks wonky.
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Post by Peegoo 🏁 on Jan 19, 2020 9:41:57 GMT -5
Do the following:
Measure from the center of the zero fret to the center of the 12th fret. Let's say it's 12" (probably a little longer on the Eko).
Note: if you're working on a guitar with no zero fret, you measure from the front of the nut to the center of the 12th fret. The front of the nut is where it touches the fretboard.
Now measure from the center of the 12th fret to the front of the high E string's saddle. It should be the same length--12" in this example.
On the Eko, if the zero-fret to 12th-fret distance is 12 3/8", the 12th to saddle on the high E should be 12 3/8".
If the distance is anything other than the zero fret to 12th fret distance, adjust the bridge to get it there, and set the low E side to the same distance *plus 1/4"*. That will get you in the ballpark for intonation.
If that checks out, *install new strings*. Who knows how long the strings have been on it, and they will not play in tune anyway. I know you already changed strings, so that statement is for readers that may encounter this in the future. Old strings will not intonate correctly.
Next, check the neck relief. With the guitar in tune, place a capo lightly between the zero fret and the 1st fret, and lightly press the low E string to the 17th fret. Holding the low E down, use a .012" thickness gauge to measure the gap between the low E and the 8th fret. The gauge should just slip in there without moving the low E. If it moves the string, loosen the truss rod 1/8 turn and measure again. However, if you measure and there's extra room even with the gauge in there, first loosen the truss rod 1/8 turn, and then tighten it 1/4 turn. And check again with the gauge.
Set the action (string height). With the capo off, measure between the low E and the 12th fret. It should be 5/64". The high E should be 1/16" (4/64"). Use the thumb wheels under the bridge to set these gaps.
Lastly, check intonation on each string and adjust the bridge/saddles to get the strings as close to perfect as you can. This is rarely perfect even on expensive guitars.
Sometimes on cheaper guitars, you can set the 12th fret harmonic and 12th fret fretted to the exact same pitch and it will still play out of tune on chords closer to the nut. In cases like this, I check intonation and make adjustments based on notes fretted at the 5th fret. That gets things playing in tune on the lower frets. Upper frets go out the window.
Once the action is set, reapply the capo and check neck relief again. Dial it in again if necessary. If you do tweak the truss rod, keep the guitar an extra day to check it in 24 hours because the neck can move a little after a tweak.
NOTE: older guitars like this often have worn frets and slightly warped necks, and often need attention to the frets to play cleanly with the setup dialed in as above. If it does not play cleanly and the owner doesn't want to sink more $$ into the guitar, you can raise the action by 1/64" at the 12th fret and see if that helps. Much higher than 6/64" on the low E and 5/64" on the high E can make playing in tune a challenge.
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Post by Peegoo 🏁 on Jan 19, 2020 10:01:19 GMT -5
Once everything is dialed in, look at the gap between the strings at the 1st fret. It should be in the vicinity of .020" for all of them.
If it's appreciably higher, e.g., .025" or more, you'll need to carefully (carefully!) file the top of the zero fret and re-profile it to drop the 1st fret action. As you're filing the fret, shoot for .025" with the file, and then take off the remaining .005" with your final profiling and polishing.
Work slowly when doing this. I cannot overstate the importance of 'sneaking up' on the final dimensions here because if you take too much metal off the zero fret, there's no fixing your goof and you'll need to remove the zero fret, install a new one, and start over.
BRAVO to you for helping your friend with this guitar. You are doing saintly work!
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69tele
Halfnote
Rockin the Rock !
Posts: 91
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Post by 69tele on Jan 19, 2020 10:45:55 GMT -5
Thanks Peegoo will have look at what you have suggested... I did a similiar Eko Les Paul a few years ago and just needed a regular setup but this one is right off !
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69tele
Halfnote
Rockin the Rock !
Posts: 91
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Post by 69tele on Jan 19, 2020 10:56:00 GMT -5
Is that 0-fret placed/spaced right? I can’t tell from the picture, but it looks wonky. I did an EKo Lp some time back and checking the pics its in the same place... but indeed normally they are flush with the nut ?
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Wrnchbndr
Wholenote
Posts: 353
Formerly Known As: WRNCHBNDR
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Post by Wrnchbndr on Jan 19, 2020 12:41:30 GMT -5
Looking at the picture, it appears that at least the G-string isn't in contact with the zero fret and is elevated. This would cause exactly as you describe. All strings must be in firm contact with the crown of the zero fret and the crown needs to be correct.
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69tele
Halfnote
Rockin the Rock !
Posts: 91
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Post by 69tele on Jan 19, 2020 14:02:01 GMT -5
Looking at the picture, it appears that at least the G-string isn't in contact with the zero fret and is elevated. This would cause exactly as you describe. All strings must be in firm contact with the crown of the zero fret and the crown needs to be correct. ahh got it... thats what i was not sure of... so i need to lower the nut until the strings touch the zero fret right ?
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Post by Pinetree on Jan 19, 2020 14:29:45 GMT -5
Or the nut slots.
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Post by SonicBlue on Jan 19, 2020 15:24:08 GMT -5
As well as all the excellent advice above, check the pickup height. Pickups too close to the strings can and will seriously mess up intonation. Screw them down level with the pickguard then have another go.
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69tele
Halfnote
Rockin the Rock !
Posts: 91
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Post by 69tele on Jan 20, 2020 8:15:05 GMT -5
thanks for the info guys really appreciate it.. will let you know how it turns out !
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Post by Leftee on Jan 20, 2020 9:03:59 GMT -5
Looking at the picture, it appears that at least the G-string isn't in contact with the zero fret and is elevated. This would cause exactly as you describe. All strings must be in firm contact with the crown of the zero fret and the crown needs to be correct. Great catch!
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