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Post by cedarchoper58 on Jan 20, 2020 18:36:54 GMT -5
why do some people put the springs in a set of three in a triangle mode and why do others not use 5 but three. i have three on mine but strait line and it works great for years. thks  |
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Post by Blacksunshine on Jan 20, 2020 19:21:00 GMT -5
My best guess is that angling the three give a little more tension without having to step up to 4 or 5. Kind of a happy medium I suppose. I've tried it in the past and it seems to help a little bit.
On a personal note, I always use 5 in my Strats and deck the trem to the body. Sometimes I would even cut a wood block to wedge in as well. I don't use the trem so I always tried to get it as stable as possible.
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Post by cedarchoper58 on Jan 20, 2020 19:23:11 GMT -5
My best guess is that angling the three give a little more tension without having to step up to 4 or 5. Kind of a happy medium I suppose. I've tried it in the past and it seems to help a little bit. On a personal note, I always use 5 in my Strats and deck the trem to the body. Sometimes I would even cut a wood block to wedge in as well. I don't use the trem so I always tried to get it as stable as possible. If thats the case why not just screw in the claw a few turns |
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Post by Peegoo 🏁 on Jan 20, 2020 20:40:46 GMT -5
^^^EXACTLY!
Here is the truth about angling the springs: in the late 60s there was a picture of the back of one of Jimi Hendrix's Strats in a guitar magazine. Jimi left the rear plates off his Strats so he could reach in there and pluck the springs for weird tones/effects. The three springs were installed like this
claw
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bridge
It became a sort of cult thing: "so THAT'S one of Jimi's secrets to getting those tones!" In reality, it was just a random thing.
You can install the springs any way you like, but ultimately, with the bridge in neutral floating condition, changing the number of springs changes the feel of the bar. Fewer springs create a 'stacking' feel, and more springs make for less stacking and a smoother feel.
There is no "best" way. But one of the ways will feel best to you. Try it with three springs, then five, then four. I recommend going from three to five because that greatly enhances the feel of less stacking when leaning on the bar, rather than three to four. So play with three for a few days, then try five for a few days, and then try four.
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Post by cedarchoper58 on Jan 20, 2020 21:38:38 GMT -5
^^^EXACTLY! Here is the truth about angling the springs: in the late 60s there was a picture of the back of one of Jimi Hendrix's Strats in a guitar magazine. Jimi left the rear plates off his Strats so he could reach in there and pluck the springs for weird tones/effects. The three springs were installed like this claw /|\ bridge It became a sort of cult thing: "so THAT'S one of Jimi's secrets to getting those tones!" In reality, it was just a random thing. You can install the springs any way you like, but ultimately, with the bridge in neutral floating condition, changing the number of springs changes the feel of the bar. Fewer springs create a 'stacking' feel, and more springs make for less stacking and a smoother feel. There is no "best" way. But one of the ways will feel best to you. Try it with three springs, then five, then four. I recommend going from three to five because that greatly enhances the feel of less stacking when leaning on the bar, rather than three to four. So play with three for a few days, then try five for a few days, and then try four. I tried going to 5 springs from 3 a long time ago and ajusting the claw and the tone changed in a neg way. What do you mean by stacking on the trem bar? Also when you change the springs from 3 to 5 and say it changes the feel i asume your ajusting the claw so the set up is the same right? thks |
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Post by Peegoo 🏁 on Jan 20, 2020 22:52:55 GMT -5
Yes, if you like the bridge floating (you can pull a note sharp as well as dive), you need to adjust the claw when adding or subtracting springs to keep the bridge plate fairly parallel to the top of the guitar.
'Stacking' refers to progressive increase of perceived resistance as spring tension increases. Generally, the farther a spring is stretched, it takes progressively increasing force to continue stretching it. This is hard to describe, but easy to feel. For example, let's say stretching a 6" long spring to a length of 6.5" requires one ounce of tension. Two ounces of tension will not stretch it another 1/2". It might take 1.4 ounces to get there. And another 1/2" might take 6 ounces. The tension stacks up in an exponential manner, not in a linear manner.
On a vibrato, the fewer the number of springs there are, the more they are stretched when at rest (at equilibrium with string tension in a floating condition). As you increase the number of springs, it allows them to contract and relax a bit more because they're helping each other. Strength in numbers. The closer they are to their completely relaxed state, the less they stack.
I probably didn't explain this very clearly. This is not a term from the guitar business; I borrowed it from archery, because even though a bow is a flat spring, it progressively loads up under tension just like a coil spring does.
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Post by Stratluvr on Jan 21, 2020 11:42:14 GMT -5
I just use five. Mainly because I don't use the trem too much if at all. Screwed down pretty tight as well. Back plate off too. The springs do add to the sound of the guitar.
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Post by cedarchoper58 on Jan 21, 2020 19:27:49 GMT -5
is it easier to bend strings with 3 or 5 if the trem is floating o just touching the body but pulls up when you bend? thks |
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Post by Peegoo 🏁 on Jan 22, 2020 9:08:36 GMT -5
Since the feel with five springs is softer, you have to push a string farther to achieve a half-step bend than you would with three springs.
Ultimately it's easier to bend if the bridge is decked (flat against the body) with a little added tension to keep it there as you bend.
The other benefit to non-floating is if you break a string: the other strings will stay in tune and you can keep playing. In floating condition, breaking a string makes the other five strings go sharp and there's no way to finish the tune with it.
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Wrnchbndr
Wholenote
Posts: 353
Formerly Known As: WRNCHBNDR
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Post by Wrnchbndr on Jan 22, 2020 9:36:11 GMT -5
Hey Peegoo reread the first sentence of your post. Have a cup of coffee. Love ya bro.
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Post by Peegoo 🏁 on Jan 22, 2020 10:09:27 GMT -5
Hey man! This is based on my experience with Fender springs. Three feels stiffer than five when the bridge is floating. Perhaps things are vastly different on my planet.
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Post by hotblooze on Jan 22, 2020 10:31:53 GMT -5
For those who use the tremolo bar in their playing, I think the amount "float" of the tremolo bridge determines the number of springs and the distance of the spring claw from the tremolo block. Three springs tend to work best for a real duck-tail float ala Jeff Beck. When balanced well, the tension of a bent note will not relax the three stretched springs that much hence double stops will sound more in pitch.
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