McCreed
Halfnote
Posts: 76
Formerly Known As: Mick Reid @ FDP
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Post by McCreed on Jan 25, 2020 19:54:54 GMT -5
This came up in another forum I belong to. One member (who is certainly experienced and generally offers good advice) strictly prescribes to the radius block. I was kind of surprised by this.
I did my first fret level with a radius block but immediately graduated to a levelling bar for the second, and have not looked back. This same progression is what I suggested to a guy doing his first build & fret level, and also where the other member (politely) disagreed.
So this got me thinking, what are your preferences?
I've kept the blocks for re-radiusing or sanding fretboards but not for frets.
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Post by Leftee on Jan 25, 2020 20:49:53 GMT -5
I use the bar.
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Post by Jim D. on Jan 25, 2020 23:22:32 GMT -5
+2 on the bar.
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Post by mtracy on Jan 26, 2020 8:20:30 GMT -5
+3 bar
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Post by 9fingers on Jan 26, 2020 10:02:57 GMT -5
+4 bar for frets. The radius blocks ARE for the fingerboard wood.
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Wrnchbndr
Wholenote
Posts: 353
Formerly Known As: WRNCHBNDR
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Post by Wrnchbndr on Jan 26, 2020 10:20:53 GMT -5
Except for a very rough start in an unusual situation when I use a file, I don't use either. I use a small slightly worn jewelers mill file and address one fret at a time. My straightedge tells me where the most offending frets are and then I switch to using a fret rocker. After the frets are level, I use a very fine diamond block to clear file marks only.
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McCreed
Halfnote
Posts: 76
Formerly Known As: Mick Reid @ FDP
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Post by McCreed on Jan 26, 2020 19:56:06 GMT -5
Except for a very rough start in an unusual situation when I use a file, I don't use either. I use a small slightly worn jewelers mill file and address one fret at a time. My straightedge tells me where the most offending frets are and then I switch to using a fret rocker. After the frets are level, I use a very fine diamond block to clear file marks only. Interesting Wrnch. One of the reasons I don't use the radius blocks is that I believe they take way more material off the frets than is necessary to achieve a consistent level. Especially at the fret ends. This will obviously affect the longevity of the frets before they need complete replacement. A bar is less aggressive and allows for more control imo. I would imagine your method could be even more conservative in it's removal of material. Do you find it takes longer though? Also, I think we can agree that fingerboards aren't necessarily an exact 9.5", 12", etc radius, so a bar compensates for those little inconsistencies. And a compound radius would be near impossible to do with blocks. (at least to my mind)
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Post by Leftee on Jan 26, 2020 20:03:31 GMT -5
The majority of my fretwork is on new necks. And those are most-all 10-16” radius. I couldn’t use this guy’s method if I wanted to.
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Post by guildx700 on Jan 26, 2020 22:13:33 GMT -5
Except for a very rough start in an unusual situation when I use a file, I don't use either. I use a small slightly worn jewelers mill file and address one fret at a time. My straightedge tells me where the most offending frets are and then I switch to using a fret rocker. After the frets are level, I use a very fine diamond block to clear file marks only. This is very close to what I do. I final polish the frets to a glass finish with a hard felt bob in a Dremel using graduating grades of compounds.
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Post by Leftee on Jan 27, 2020 7:43:58 GMT -5
I think I see where this guy is coming from. Yes, in “theory” radius blocks would be great for fretwork.
But I agree, Mick. It seems like you would sacrifice way too much meat using his method. You would end up taking fret material from frets that didn’t require it.
Again, almost all my work is on new necks. In my fret world the fret rocker is king of the tools. I adjust the neck flat with a straightedge. Then I go up the neck using the rocker, marking the very edge of the high frets with a sharpie. Then I use the bar. And... guess what... the high frets become most evident in a visual inspection... after the bar. I don’t take much with the bar. I then use my diamond files to address the high frets. Again, using the fret rocker throughout this part of the process.
I use a sanding block to smooth the fret ends and give a slight roll to the fretboard edges. I don’t take the fret ends down as far as many. I approach fret work with the thought that I want them to feel good yet leave meat where I can. That extends to the fret ends.
I crown and dress out the frets I worked and get them uniform looking with the untouched frets. I’ve been using the StewMac sanding cloth products to polish. I go out to 4000 grit.
Oh... and did I mention the fret rocker? 😜
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Wrnchbndr
Wholenote
Posts: 353
Formerly Known As: WRNCHBNDR
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Post by Wrnchbndr on Jan 27, 2020 11:28:25 GMT -5
It does take a stupid long time and its tedious. But the result is good. I don't want to remove any fret meat that isn't offending the level leaving the innocents alone as much as I can. Its not rocket surgery. Level is a simple concept. Using a block can honestly make a really great improvement on some guitars. I'm gonna guess that an average level, recrown, dress the fret ends, and polish takes me 3 to 4 hours with the setup taking me another 45 minutes. It is over kill. It is also really not necessary. But I'm stuck in this process as I know its accurate. This type of accuracy isn't necessary.
Most of the guitars I encounter have divits and wear. If I engage in a fret level, the result is always visually pleasing and friendly feeling. But there is a point when the wear is so bad that a level isn't practical without the replacement of frets. Sometimes, even with visually offensive frets, the guitar still plays great with tons of mojo. It shouldn't but it does. I tell the client to continue playing until it has a problem. Technically near perfect frets do not guarantee a great guitar. They just rule out that unlevel frets are causing a problem. Seriously, I'm often wasting time in pursuit of level.
There isn't a right and wrong unless the result causes a problem.
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sirWheat
Wholenote
For a better future, play Stevie Wonder for your children.
Posts: 314
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Post by sirWheat on Jan 27, 2020 15:42:26 GMT -5
Now that I know how to do frets and have all the tools, I ain't screwing around. I have the radius blocks but use them for fretboards. For leveling I use a bar. I've read Wrnch's process in the past and while I definitely respect his methods (sounds like he makes his people very happy too), there's no way I will spend that kind of time. Trying to save fret meat is a nice gesture but if you're charging for all of those hours then the cost aspect is at least moot (given what things cost around here anyway). A fret level, when using a bar or similar, doesn't take that long and yields very nice results. Fret work is tedious enough as is so I'd much rather "skip the middle man" so to speak and just level 'em.
Of course that's just me, a guy who doesn't rely on this type of work to feed himself. Now as a carpenter, I'm certainly guilty of taking the long road for certain things, just 'cause...
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Post by Leftee on Jan 27, 2020 16:00:25 GMT -5
Saving fret meat - the right thing to do.
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McCreed
Halfnote
Posts: 76
Formerly Known As: Mick Reid @ FDP
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Post by McCreed on Jan 27, 2020 21:49:21 GMT -5
Well said! Leftee - our processes sound very similar, with exception to the ends. I use a fret end file. And after thinking more about Wrnch's process, I realised it's essentially what I do when there's just one or two troublesome frets. No need of clearing a whole forest if all you need is one tree. (I think a lot of folks make that mistake, and I'm sure I was guilty of it too early on) Now I think I'll change my signature line from "...one note at a time." to one fret at a time!
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Post by guildx700 on Jan 27, 2020 23:30:07 GMT -5
Technically near perfect frets do not guarantee a great guitar. They just rule out that unlevel frets are causing a problem. Seriously, I'm often wasting time in pursuit of level. There isn't a right and wrong unless the result causes a problem. Yup. My 1939 Gibson L50 archtop has the original frets, worn, bad divots, but guess what, it plays perfect with low, clean action. No noting out anywhere, I'm not going to touch them!!!
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Post by Opie on Jan 28, 2020 9:01:20 GMT -5
Bar for sure. I actually use a long file that I epoxied to a piece old maple I shaped to be comfortable.Made it 40 years ago and still going strong. You just want to bring the high ones down, a block is too short and will just ride the hills and valleys.
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twangmeister
Wholenote
Posts: 349
Formerly Known As: Twangmeister
Age: 72 and fading fast.....
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Post by twangmeister on Feb 2, 2020 11:04:23 GMT -5
Leveling bar.
Wish I knew what I did with my strip of Corian from some years back.
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