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Post by funkykikuchiyo on Dec 24, 2022 15:10:50 GMT -5
I've tried numerous times to get into Beck as he's obviously a massive talent. But I've always thought his music wasn't very... ummm... musical. I could never learn to appreciate the (what I've come to label) whale calls.
I tend to agree. I love his technique and phrasing, but find myself not feeling like I want to listen again. Sometimes great players do music that doesn't speak to us. I won't argue with anyone who loves Beck... I see the appeal, I just don't feel drawn to it.
I think I've mentioned here before, but there's a fascinating thought experiment with Clapton. Pretend he died during his dark drug period after Derek & The Dominos. Now, pretend Hendrix was still alive. Hendrix inevitably would have gone through dry spells in the past 52 years. Maybe he became a one-trick pony and never came up with anything original after 1970, and he basically just plays very bad versions of Purple Haze on cruise ships. Or, maybe he tried to reinvent himself, had a weird country & western phase, or thought he should play with classical players in some unlistenable stuff. Meanwhile, Clapton would have seemed like a genius who died in his prime, and we'd all be wondering what amazing stuff would be forthcoming from this brilliant young British guitar god who died too early. This isn't to say Clapton is more than he is or to dunk on Hendrix... I think it is just helpful to get some perspective.
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Post by samspade on Dec 25, 2022 11:05:18 GMT -5
It's like George Costanza leaving on a high note lol. Yeah, wondered about this as well. I think Hendrix would have followed the Santana path. I think still true to what he was doing, maybe explore what Miles and Mahavishnu was doing, and never get into shred. I also wonder about people like Kurt Cobain and Layne Staley.
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Post by Larry Madsen on Dec 25, 2022 13:40:41 GMT -5
I saw Clapton, Page and Beck on the same stage at the same time … back in the 80s concert for ARMS.
I think Page must have been a personal mess at the time. His playing sounded a mess. As others said, Beck is Beck and not really my cup of tea in terms of style.
Clapton shined that night for me.
Personally though, I’d just as soon listen to David Gilmour. 😜
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Post by langford on Dec 26, 2022 9:56:04 GMT -5
I saw Clapton, Page and Beck on the same stage at the same time … back in the 80s concert for ARMS. ...Personally though, I’d just as soon listen to David Gilmour. 😜 I'd argue that Gilmour is the most musical of the bunch.
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Post by funkykikuchiyo on Dec 26, 2022 10:45:14 GMT -5
It's like George Costanza leaving on a high note lol. Yeah, wondered about this as well. I think Hendrix would have followed the Santana path. I think still true to what he was doing, maybe explore what Miles and Mahavishnu was doing, and never get into shred. I also wonder about people like Kurt Cobain and Layne Staley. Yeah, we can only guess. From what I've heard, Miles Davis was in Hendrix's ear urging him to do more authentic music and less of the rock and roll stuff, and that is part of what inspired Band of Gypsies. If Hendrix had decided he wanted to hang with more bebop/jazz guys, he probably would have been in over his head pretty quickly. Hendrix had an incredible ear, but knew next to no theory and didn't read music, and he certainly wasn't going to be able to keep up with the stuff happening in those circles, unless he decided to hunker down and school himself on it. Would he have, or would he have just faked it? Or not even bothered? Would he have done what was within his grasp and invented his own fusion style, or would he have just sounded in over his head?
I like your analogy with Santana. Hendrix's super high energy stage presence would have waned with age, as it did with Santana and Clapton and many others. Even Hendrix wouldn't have still been "Hendrix" by age 43. The three of them did well by having a really good ear and some raw talent, but all lacked formal training and worked into a groove eventually. We just don't know what Hendrix's would have been.
Clapton attempted to grow musically many times... it just often failed, and that is why so many love to hate him. There was the album where he tried being super electronic (Pilgrim?), and he's experimented a lot with arranging. Sometimes it works great like that early 2000s double CD album, and sometimes it doesn't (he loves the backline of female singers, and I have no idea why). He had his Robert Johnson project which was more of a personal challenge than an artistic contribution, but that ain't nothing. He also worked on his singing, and his later singing efforts were a lot more enjoyable. I've had conversations on here with ninworks and others about returning to learn more as an adult, and part of me wishes guys like him had those opportunities because they would have loved it. Clapton was always in awe of other players (watch him gazing on at the Crossroads show), but probably thought of himself as a old dog unable to learn new tricks.
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Post by Auf Kiltre on Dec 26, 2022 14:07:35 GMT -5
It's fun if not futile to ponder the what if's about players, I've done that a lot with Hendrix. My initial feeling is he would've gravitated to more fusion-y stuff and collaborated with the likes of McLaughlin, Holdsworth, etc. But who knows.
Clapton is a different animal IMO. A core devotion to the blues (although his efforts very often don't show it), a rejection of the God label, addiction, personal loss, the loyal fan base that followed him through every stage of his career, there seems to be little opportunity and incentive there for him to have risen up in the way that Beck did.
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Post by LeftyMeister on Dec 26, 2022 14:15:29 GMT -5
We need to keep in mind that Hendrix played with the Isley brothers before going solo, so he already had a strong background in R&B and early funk.
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Post by ninworks on Dec 26, 2022 17:02:24 GMT -5
I heard an interview with Keith Emerson where he said they were trying to get hendrix in their band. It would have been H E L P. I think he wouldn't have been able to keep up with the level of musicianship in that band but who knows. He might have been great.
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Post by cedarchoper58 on Dec 26, 2022 18:10:27 GMT -5
I heard an interview with Keith Emerson where he said they were trying to get hendrix in their band. It would have been H E L P. I think he wouldn't have been able to keep up with the level of musicianship in that band but who knows. He might have been great. He would have brought soul to Robot Music
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sirWheat
Wholenote
For a better future, play Stevie Wonder for your children.
Posts: 321
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Post by sirWheat on Dec 26, 2022 18:17:12 GMT -5
I think all of the rabid Clapton fans I've ever met were those who were old enough to have been into music when he hit the scene with the bluesbreakers (or at least when Cream came out). My conclusion? Ya had to be there...the bluesbreakers do absolutely nothing for me but I can see how young folks at the time might dig it, at least those that didn't already know the originals that they were covering.
I don't love Cream but I do like it. Love Blind Faith, Derek and the Dominos, even the Delaney and Bonnie stuff. I also like his first few solo albums (that usually makes the die-hards sneer). All that said, I've never been floored by Clapton's playing. I'm a big fan of Page, also of Beck. Beck will likely never get the credit he deserves but he was very innovative and comparatively out-of-the-box. There isn't a genre for him and I think his fame suffered from the fact that he wasn't a poster child for whatever rock and roll thought of itself back then.
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Post by reverendrob on Dec 26, 2022 18:20:33 GMT -5
Ironically, there's one thing in common on the only Clapton and Beck i like - they're both playing on DIFFERENT Waters solo albums.
And Gilmour I prefer as a guest as well by and large for anything post-1980. He's a better sideman than lead - the post-Waters Floyd is absolute dreck.
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Post by pcalu on Dec 27, 2022 23:34:20 GMT -5
I think I've mentioned here before, but there's a fascinating thought experiment with Clapton. Pretend he died during his dark drug period after Derek & The Dominos. Now, pretend Hendrix was still alive. Hendrix inevitably would have gone through dry spells in the past 52 years. Maybe he became a one-trick pony and never came up with anything original after 1970, and he basically just plays very bad versions of Purple Haze on cruise ships. Or, maybe he tried to reinvent himself, had a weird country & western phase, or thought he should play with classical players in some unlistenable stuff. Meanwhile, Clapton would have seemed like a genius who died in his prime, and we'd all be wondering what amazing stuff would be forthcoming from this brilliant young British guitar god who died too early. This isn't to say Clapton is more than he is or to dunk on Hendrix... I think it is just helpful to get some perspective.
That's where I was going to go... One has to take Clapton and the 60's music scene into context. Clapton get's propelled like a rocket being a member of the Yardbirds. One can say who was playing that way before 1965 w/ songs like "Good morning Little school Girl" or "For Your Love," For popularity's sake I always look at the Yardbirds as part of the British invasion...(all started by the Beatles... when we consider Clapton was orbiting the Beatles through the 1960-early 1970s. That's a lot of being in the lime light... Huge fan of Clapton.. as stated I am very impressed by his longevity in being relevant, with hits well into the late 1980s and early 90s. That's 25-30yrs of music on prime time radio... not some classical rock station. Yet, was he the first? was he some trail blazer ..... not in my book.... The Paul Butterfield Blues band w/ Mike Bloomfield was happening around the same time as the Yardbirds. Bloomfield's playing just smokes.. incredible playing on Butterfields albums. (and that's an understatement.. ) IMHO.... Bloomfield's playing blows away anything Clapton did in 1965, I can only assume (cause I was born in 66) Butterfield w/ Bloomfield was somehow seen as indigenous.?? less of an attraction when compared to British acts coming across the pond??? IDK.... Who was crushing the blues like Bloomfield was in 1965? No American guitarist I can think of. I'm sure there was... In my mind they just get pushed aside by the guitarist that came up in the British invasion. Mike Bloomfield just comes to mind, because when I first heard him, and realized when he played all that magic (i,e, 1965-1966ish ) I could only say WTF? How wasn't he a household name?
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Post by bluzcat on Dec 28, 2022 7:41:13 GMT -5
Being an 80s metal kid Clapton was not really on my radar- but I enjoyed seeing the video for “It’s In The Way That You Use It” from ‘86-ish. Later I liked the Unplugged “Layla” and “Tears In Heaven”. My dad loved Clapton so I paid attention when his son died. In ‘99 my tastes changed to blues and I “discovered” SRV, which then leads back to Clapton’s “From the Cradle”. Digging back through his catalogue, I like some things from August, really enjoyed Journeyman, FTC, One More Car/Rider live album and Me and Mr Johnson. I really struggle with his post-2004 solo stuff, as I’m not really into reggae and some of the other genres he delved into. To me, I like his blues work best, with some of the solo work. But, part of keeping up with him is sentimental, because my dad loved him, and I lost my dad in ‘14.
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krrf
Wholenote
Posts: 376
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Post by krrf on Dec 28, 2022 10:29:41 GMT -5
Clapton is a songwriter/singer, comparing him to Page and Beck is like apples to oranges. I love all his material, but Journeyman is the high watermark for me. I think he had top 10 albums in ever decade except 2020 era. I guess the huge test for me is how listenable he is... if I put on Clapton in the car, my wife will listen. Page/Beck/Hendrix she changes the song LOL.
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