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Post by Taildragger on Apr 2, 2020 13:21:10 GMT -5
Heard some interesting discussion about this on a radio show (BBC) last night.
So now most schools, including colleges, in CA (and, I assume, also in other US states) will remain closed for the remainder of the term. Teaching has moved to remote/online for at least that long. Makes one start to wonder why anything (Q&A, lectures) other than lab work would ever come back to a "brick-and-mortar" environment. And if most instruction remains online, how long before some bureaucratic bean counter thinks, "hey, why do these instructors even have to reside in this country? We can pay tech-savvy people in India (for example) a lot less to do it from there?"
And what about all that prime real estate on which schools and colleges are located? I imagine that most state's tax revenues are cratering about now due to depressed sales of consumer goods and gasoline. If states start running even larger deficits and the number of physical buildings required for education is greatly reduced, couldn't tremendous pressure develop to liquidate state-owned school real estate to bolster revenue?
Interesting to ponder.
Reminder: this thread is not intended to initiate bashing of one political party/ideology or another or their policies regarding the education system, so please don't go there. That's a no-no here. Thanks in advance for not doing that.
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hilltop87
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Post by hilltop87 on Apr 2, 2020 13:26:16 GMT -5
But what happens to all the football stadiums and basketball arenas?
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professor
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Post by professor on Apr 2, 2020 14:24:35 GMT -5
The parents who can afford college will rise up and demand that the brick and mortar schools reopen, because they thought they'd finally gotten used to the kid being gone and now they're going out of their minds with them back. What is college but a structured learning and residential environment that's not home?
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Post by Peegoo 🏁 on Apr 2, 2020 14:36:22 GMT -5
I agree, professor.
This adventure will also substantially change the way we work; "the genie is out of the bottle" now, and companies and industries that have historically been reticent to allow wide use of telework where able will have seen the light.
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matryx81
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Post by matryx81 on Apr 2, 2020 14:58:42 GMT -5
But what happens to all the football stadiums and basketball arenas? To me, this is one major question with this that they probably are hoping no one asks. The rest of you have excellent points. My only question for any of these is to Chris in that I don't disagree on the socialization and the concern of paying for something you aren't getting, but there is so much going on with the lack of socialization (specifically with regard to technology) that will it be considered not as valuable? I can see some of Taildragger's points happening. Colleges may be tempted to have all their classes be online, but then I can see states wanting the land for other uses.
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Post by NoSoapRadio on Apr 2, 2020 15:12:32 GMT -5
Universities aren't going anywhere -- they have bazillions invested in labs and hospitals that can't be accessed online. There is just too much money to be made for them to just go away. Also consider that virtually every politician presently wasting oxygen is connected to a college or university somewhere.
Don't start scraping those parking passes off the cars just yet.
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Post by larryguitar54 on Apr 2, 2020 17:26:36 GMT -5
The real benefit of brick and mortar schools is the socialization which you simply don't get online. Spot on. Attending a university also all about the people you meet. You cannot learn how to run the world any other way.
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Post by windmill on Apr 2, 2020 18:10:26 GMT -5
Changing education in this way would be a sea change that is not likely to happen. The real benefit of brick and mortar schools is the socialization which you simply don't get online. Think of it in terms of the network of contacts you build in your career, starting with people you know from school who knows someone who knows someone etc.
Can't think of a way to replace that.
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Post by Mfitz804 on Apr 2, 2020 20:03:46 GMT -5
The parents who can afford college will rise up and demand that the brick and mortar schools reopen, because they thought they'd finally gotten used to the kid being gone and now they're going out of their minds with them back. What is college but a structured learning and residential environment that's not home? it’s not just college. 90% of parents will be quite happy when their children finally go back to school.
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Post by Mfitz804 on Apr 2, 2020 20:46:48 GMT -5
In 2007, we home schooled our boys when we took that year off to travel. Idaho has an online charter school so we had a curriculum to follow but a year of that was more than enough. When we got home, we were happy they went back to regular school. They learned more that year because of the travel and experiences they had but it was a tough gig. I wouldn't want to have to supervise younger kids 24/7. And if both parents are working outside of the home? Fuhgeddiboudit. Even the moms who stay home can’t wait...they don’t want to spend “their” time doing math and social studies and science!!
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Post by Mfitz804 on Apr 2, 2020 21:19:17 GMT -5
I did all the schooling as my wife had a real job and I only had the FDP. I’m sure it’s great when you choose to do it.
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professor
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Post by professor on Apr 2, 2020 21:39:04 GMT -5
My response was a bit tongue in cheek.
I just finished my first Zoom meeting with 6 students who are back in Asia. 12 hour time difference, so I had to connect with them at 8 PM my time to maintain the semblance of the normal 8 AM class time. I’m meeting them again in 10 hours, then two other meetings with the other 14 students who are spread across the US. This is a pretty unpleasant way to teach. It’s like taking a shower with all your clothes on. Yeah, it’s sort of close in a stupid way, but it feels ridiculous.
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WireDog
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Post by WireDog on Apr 2, 2020 22:32:47 GMT -5
I've been out of the classroom for about two weeks and have put up a Google Classroom on line. This has been a very free-form transition, and my school district hasn't established a standardized platform that all teachers and all students are familiar with. Various people up and down the chain of command in my district are creating gee-whiz links to "how to" make a virtual class. However, I see the lack of uniformity as more of a problem than a solution.
It will eventually sort itself out. I am reaching my students, that's for sure. But sadly, I think in the aftermath of this virus, educators will look back at this and pat themselves on the back about how we all pushed forward with our virtual classrooms. It truly is inspiring to me how dedicated teachers are.
But the underlying truth is that the kids aren't giving a rats keister about their studies right now. They are barely connecting with me, and these are kids that are normally art superstars in my brick classroom.
Ther focus and immediacy of being present together in a room is replaced with a vague aura that is as fragile as an led screen.
My takeaway is that virtual learning is a shadow of learning in a brick classroom.
There is an undeniable swell towards keeping things virtual, though. We teachers are all going to pat ourselves on the back, The bean counters and opportunistic board members will make an agenda, and then we'll get replaced by bots at central command. I hope it doesn't take hold. My 2 cents.
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Post by rickyguitar on Apr 3, 2020 2:26:29 GMT -5
We home schooled all 3 kids. It was tough. I worked to pay bills and helped where I could. But wife made it happen. Our middle and youngest have degrees with honors. In fact daughter has 2, both with honors. Our oldest is working on his now, with honors so far,(5 years in the army interrupted school). So I guess it worked but they grew to hate it. It is not an easy row to hoe. I think some classes can effectively be taught online, but I think some require face time (and not on an iPhone). Where's my beer?
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Post by Taildragger on Apr 3, 2020 11:20:07 GMT -5
Thanks for the insights, especially from you guys who are actively involved in teaching. I hope that you all continue on as a positive force in the education of our youth: our society is fortunate to benefit from your dedication.
____________________
Whether kids home school or go to a public or private school, it's crucial that parents be involved in their kids' education. I know I sound like a broken record on this, but kids pay closer attention to your behavior than they do to the noises that comes out of your pie hole. If you make their schooling/sports activities a priority in your life (rather than just giving lip service to same), they will be more likely to follow suit.
I volunteered in the computer lab every year while my kids were in grade school and then coached/assistant coached softball through their junior high and high school years. Since I was always working at least 40 hours/wk. (usually more) they knew that I was doing this on my "free time". I also paid them for every "A" they got on their report cards, telling them that was their "job".
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Post by Blacksunshine on Apr 3, 2020 11:54:02 GMT -5
I'm a high school special education teacher, so I'm right in the middle of this new way of teaching.
It's been....interesting to say the least!
Still lots of questions on how this will all work, and how effective it really is.
Interesting times we're living in!
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hilltop87
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Post by hilltop87 on Apr 3, 2020 12:00:40 GMT -5
Not to jump the thread, but all this teacher talk brought up memories of my 3rd grade teacher Ms. Einhaus. She was a real looker. My first female crush.
I remember running into her at the grocery store and she was with her boyfriend. Was I ever jealous. Of course she got married to the guy and ended up moving away.
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Post by Blacksunshine on Apr 3, 2020 12:03:24 GMT -5
The parents who can afford college will rise up and demand that the brick and mortar schools reopen, because they thought they'd finally gotten used to the kid being gone and now they're going out of their minds with them back. What is college but a structured learning and residential environment that's not home? it’s not just college. 90% of parents will be quite happy when their children finally go back to school. We actually had a parent ask us, "why can't you come back to the school and teach? I can't deal with my son all day, it's unfair that he has to stay here at home all day with me." Parent of the year candidate right there, folks.
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hilltop87
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Post by hilltop87 on Apr 3, 2020 12:06:38 GMT -5
it’s not just college. 90% of parents will be quite happy when their children finally go back to school. We actually had a parent ask us, "why can't you come back to the school and teach? I can't deal with my son all day, it's unfair that he has to stay here at home all day with me." Parent of the year candidate right there, folks. Haha. I suspect quite a few parents are feeling this way. I know my neighbor is feeling this way.
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Post by gato on Apr 3, 2020 12:46:02 GMT -5
For those in their senior year ...early online graduation with full diploma. (Each student is mailed a Magic 8 Ball for those upcoming, life changing decisions)
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Post by Mfitz804 on Apr 3, 2020 12:48:19 GMT -5
it’s not just college. 90% of parents will be quite happy when their children finally go back to school. We actually had a parent ask us, "why can't you come back to the school and teach? I can't deal with my son all day, it's unfair that he has to stay here at home all day with me." Parent of the year candidate right there, folks. Feeling that way I get. But to actually ask that and not understand the gravity of the situation, that person is an idiot.
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Post by Blacksunshine on Apr 3, 2020 15:31:05 GMT -5
For those in their senior year ...early online graduation with full diploma. (Each student is mailed a Magic 8 Ball for those upcoming, life changing decisions) "Ask again later"
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Post by larryguitar54 on Apr 3, 2020 16:18:19 GMT -5
Changing education in this way would be a sea change that is not likely to happen. The real benefit of brick and mortar schools is the socialization which you simply don't get online. Think of it in terms of the network of contacts you build in your career, starting with people you know from school who knows someone who knows someone etc.
Can't think of a way to replace that. I think that's a valid point. But unfortunately it misses a larger point. My view of 'education' is that is should return to the classical view of it. I am very concerned when education is goal directed and we determine the value of our education in terms of what kind of a job, or as stated above, the kinds of contacts we can accumulate. This kind of thinking promotes the idea of a formal education as glorified vocational training. I am, however, equally concerned with the move to 'home schooling' and compartmentalized private schooling. I believe at the core is a population of parents disenchanted with the perceived state of the world and the desire to take control of their children's education. However in my experience those to pursue that have a strong sense of their own worldview and have their feelings about it as the driving force. When I was about 14 years old I had some sort of epiphany and committed to being a Renaissance man and citizen of the world and sought an education that was akin to the classical education of an 18th century Cambridge aristocrat. In other words I thought the 'great books' curriculum was the right thing. When I entered university I modified that somewhat but my core approach didn't change. I avoided any kind of specialization like business or engineering or even something like a degree in biology. I tended to look at the catalogue and decide, "zoology? yeah I think I should know something about that.....the history of Canada? yup why not? etc. I made it through as a history/philosphy major and only got the degrees because they forced you to select something and move on. The reason I went to law school was very similar. I wasn't thinking I needed a profession or I wanted to secure an income or wanted to secure contacts. The real reason was I met a lawyer and I marveled at how his mind worked logically and I wanted to attend some sort of intellectual boot camp and learn that skill. After about 10 years of college I finally had no choice but to go out in the world and get a job. By then I had acquired a wife and she was in charge of the program. But if I had my druthers I would still be in school. There was a story about a British officer capturing a German position and having dinner with his German counterpart. The British officer remarked he had studied poetry and began reciting Horace in Latin. To his surprise after a few minutes the German officer joined him and competed the verse in Latin as well. When Thomas Jefferson and John Adams got together and had dinner with James Madison that would have been completely normal. That world is gone. And that makes me sad. I think we lost something. Anyway...that's my general stream of thought and rant.
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Post by Mfitz804 on Apr 3, 2020 16:55:46 GMT -5
I agree with seeking a classical education. My boys went to a charter school that did exactly that. They even learned Latin! Very rigorous curriculum which served one very well and the other more than he realizes. Both have remarkably good writing skills, far better than what I see from most college graduates and this was a K-12 school. But in today's world, going to college to learn something that makes you employable is far more important than it was in my day when the only real requirement in so many fields was any BA/BS. I *was* going to be an interpretive park ranger. Instead, I went to work for Dean Witter. Is interpretive park rangering like interpretive dance?
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Post by LesTele on Apr 3, 2020 17:03:14 GMT -5
“Is interpretive park rangering like interpretive dance?“
I believe that it’s very similar but you don’t have to wear tights.
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Post by Mfitz804 on Apr 3, 2020 17:14:00 GMT -5
“Is interpretive park rangering like interpretive dance?“ I believe that it’s very similar but you don’t have to wear tights. I bet he still did.
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Post by LesTele on Apr 3, 2020 17:33:49 GMT -5
Five years of Latin and three years of Greek. One year of Roman Law. I was going to bring up the yoga pants but I didn’t know if the callback would register.
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Post by Seldom Seen on Apr 3, 2020 17:37:30 GMT -5
It is interesting to me that I retain only one good friend from college but I maintain friendships with several high school chums. However, my professional advancement, to and including starting a company, are due entirely to my social connections from college. I have a difficult time believing any of that would have happened had I not attended a brick and mortar college.
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Post by guildx700 on Apr 4, 2020 0:26:53 GMT -5
Our school district was fortunate to have already had online school as a working thing.
Some areas have considered no more brick and mortar, but we are in the middle of a 24 million dollar upgrade to our elementary school, so we are committed for the long haul it would seem. The current buzz is school will not resume in buildings to end, and we had an early end date of May 22nd anyhow.
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Post by Taildragger on Apr 4, 2020 11:19:52 GMT -5
The classically-educated don't wear yoga pants.
They wear yoga togas.
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