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Post by guildx700 on May 3, 2020 17:44:32 GMT -5
guildx700 Very nice looking frets. Love the way the fret ends ate smoothly dressed! Hate frets digging into my palm Yup, I hear ya on that. No fret ends can be felt at all on this Explorer, they are super low but it does not note out at all anywhere on the neck. It is a bit of an oddity for a 1976, it's not a Limited Edition as many were. It just says Explorer, made in USA on the back of the headstock. Anyhow....... What is the deal with all the fret ends sticking out these days? What has changed? Hell, I have a killer surf green Hohner strat, it's my fav go to even over all my Fenders. I'm unsure of the year, but holy hell....the detail they did on the neck to fill the fret ends in is amazing: Also have an old JB Player solid ash body Tele, and they did a hell of a nice job filling in the fret ends on that too:
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Post by LTB on May 3, 2020 18:50:47 GMT -5
What is the deal with all the fret ends sticking out these days? What has changed? I do not know but it is something I have experienced on all but a couple of my instruments. I have both Fender Basses and a Gibson SG Standard. The SG Standard having binding on both sides of the fretboard that covers the end of the frets is one and the other was a Gibson ES-137 Classic. Not sure if it is the wood being used or the methods preparing the woods has changed.
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Post by guildx700 on May 3, 2020 20:28:56 GMT -5
What is the deal with all the fret ends sticking out these days? What has changed? I do not know but it is something I have experienced on all but a couple of my instruments. I have both Fender Basses and a Gibson SG Standard. The SG Standard having binding on both sides of the fretboard that covers the end of the frets is one and the other was a Gibson ES-137 Classic. Not sure if it is the wood being used or the methods preparing the woods has changed. I hate to say it but I'm thinking they just don't give a xxxxe anymore. Too much detail work to bother with. Many manufacturers it seems. If it's an unbound board it seems like...oh well suck it up and suffer. I do have a few dozen guitars that have no fret end issues, my oldest being a 1939 Gibson L50, so it's not an aging issue. It's straight from the factory fresh problem, period. I mean...did anyone play these guitars before deeming them QC'd & ready to ship? I've sent back 4 USA Fenders and 3 Gibsons in the last 5 years due to to exposed fret ends. Also passed on 3 Mex Strats whose frets were sticking out so bad the guitars were unplayable without pain. Totally unacceptable IMO. Yet my low cost budget Hohner Strat and JB Player Tele not only have zero fret end issues, but they went the extra mile and filled the fret ends in perfectly level with the neck wood with matching filler. Go figure. Those 2 guitar's necks are the poster children for how it should be done!
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Post by guildx700 on May 3, 2020 20:41:14 GMT -5
The guitar I seem to play the most these days has a rosewood fingerboard. My 2013 60's Tribute Gold Top Les Paul.I have a 2013 70's Tribute Les Paul! It is one of my fav LP's. Has a killer top, great neck, killer tones, an all around great guitar. Got it for $865 w/HSC. Here it is when I got it and was cleaning it/setting it up:
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Post by LTB on May 3, 2020 21:08:00 GMT -5
guildx700 "I have a 2013 70's Tribute Les Paul!
It is one of my fav LP's. Has a killer top, great neck, killer tones, an all around great guitar. Got it for $865 w/HSC. Here it is when I got it and was cleaning it/setting it up:"
Very nice looking!
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Post by ninworks on May 8, 2020 9:46:07 GMT -5
I had a few mods done to my Gold Top right after I bought it. I had an ABR-1 Tune-O-Matic bridge and a featherweight tail-stop put on it by Michael Schenker's old guitar tech. Then he set it up for me. A couple years ago I shielded all of the internal cavities and pickguard with copper conductive tape. I was having static issues when touching anywhere on the body. That completely fixed it. The gold finish on that guitar is crap. I wore through it, where the pinky of my picking hand rested on the body underneath the bridge pickup, within 6 months of getting it. That's the reason I put a pickguard on it. To cover up the worn spot. Now, the finish is worn off where my arm comes in contact with the top of the body. It's still a real player though. It has become my favorite guitar in my collection to play. It's always out hanging on the stand next to my desk and I play it every day. The pickups are wonderful.
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Post by Auf Kiltre on May 8, 2020 9:52:25 GMT -5
I've had mostly good experiences with ebony, the sole exception being an early Warmoth custom made Strat neck. Half way through a gig I felt like my fretboard was turning into sandpaper.
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Post by SoK66 on May 8, 2020 19:25:10 GMT -5
In one of his recent You Tube live streams Robbe Ford was asked if he still played Fender Esprit Ultras. He said no, that he hadn't played them in many years, that he stopped playing them becuse they were "too bright." (I don't think that's actually the story, but I digress.) In part he felt the Esprit's ebony fingerboard was the culprit. He then started playing his Gibson ES355, with ebony board. He does tend to favor his roasewood '60 Telecaster. I have two of the Ibanez-made Esprit Ultras (Robben Ford model)and the combination of the spruce top, maple necks and ebony boards do make for a bright guitar. One thing fr sure, the ebony does make for a smooth, very comfortable guitar to play.
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Post by stratcowboy on May 8, 2020 22:26:03 GMT -5
He does tend to favor his roasewood '60 Telecaster. I think that's what he sounds his best on.
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Post by LTB on May 8, 2020 22:31:54 GMT -5
I've had mostly good experiences with ebony, the sole exception being an early Warmoth custom made Strat neck. Half way through a gig I felt like my fretboard was turning into sandpaper. That was what my ebony fretboard felt like when I put some conditioner on it. It is much better now but not perfect. I am hoping when I restring it and use recommended Edwards Feed and Polish for wood helps.
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Post by guildx700 on May 9, 2020 0:36:00 GMT -5
I had a few mods done to my Gold Top right after I bought it. I had an ABR-1 Tune-O-Matic bridge and a featherweight tail-stop put on it by Michael Schenker's old guitar tech. Then he set it up for me. A couple years ago I shielded all of the internal cavities and pickguard with copper conductive tape. I was having static issues when touching anywhere on the body. That completely fixed it. The gold finish on that guitar is crap. I wore through it, where the pinky of my picking hand rested on the body underneath the bridge pickup, within 6 months of getting it. That's the reason I put a pickguard on it. To cover up the worn spot. Now, the finish is worn off where my arm comes in contact with the top of the body. It's still a real player though. It has become my favorite guitar in my collection to play. It's always out hanging on the stand next to my desk and I play it every day. The pickups are wonderful. Nitro finishes are very thin compared to poly, it's not unusual to wear through with regular gigging. Poly is what you want/need if that's an issue as nitro will wear through fairly easily with heavy use, sweat and such. Still, nitro is my first choice for many reasons.
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Post by guildx700 on May 9, 2020 0:41:33 GMT -5
I've had mostly good experiences with ebony, the sole exception being an early Warmoth custom made Strat neck. Half way through a gig I felt like my fretboard was turning into sandpaper. Good ebony will last a lifetime. Fake or poor, not so much so. Macassar ebony it a great choice, but for some reason it's been overlooked. It tends to mix the best of rosewood and typically used ebony IMO.
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Post by LTB on May 9, 2020 1:18:55 GMT -5
Good ebony will last a lifetime. Fake or poor, not so much so. Macassar ebony it a great choice, but for some reason it's been overlooked. It tends to mix the best of rosewood and typically used ebony IMO. The ebony on my ESP LTD B-5E 5 string bass is a beautiful Ebony that is dark brown with black grain lines. I love that Ebony Fingerboard. I thought at the time they took Rosewood and really darkened it but it doesn't have the same grain as Rosewood and I read where Ebony tones can vary. By Contrast the Ebony on my new Ibanez Artcore Elitist guitar is just flat dull black. Ibanez USA was supposed to call the main office in Japan and see what was used on this guitar but I never heard back from them. Guess I will call them again next week
update: I looked at Macassar Ebony on Internet and my bass does look like some of the samples.
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Post by guildx700 on May 9, 2020 13:41:31 GMT -5
Good ebony will last a lifetime. Fake or poor, not so much so. Macassar ebony it a great choice, but for some reason it's been overlooked. It tends to mix the best of rosewood and typically used ebony IMO. The ebony on my ESP LTD B-5E 5 string bass is a beautiful Ebony that is dark brown with black grain lines. I love that Ebony Fingerboard. I thought at the time they took Rosewood and really darkened it but it doesn't have the same grain as Rosewood and I read where Ebony tones can vary. By Contrast the Ebony on my new Ibanez Artcore Elitist guitar is just flat dull black. Ibanez USA was supposed to call the main office in Japan and see what was used on this guitar but I never heard back from them. Guess I will call them again next week
update: I looked at Macassar Ebony on Internet and my bass does look like some of the samples.
My Bennett prototype has a Macassar ebony fingerboard. It's a bit more black that you usually see, but it does have subtle streaks of brown in it, I love the feel of it. It does vary quite a bit in looks, perhaps that's why it's not used by the big manufactures, it can look quite different from slab to slab.
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Post by LTB on May 11, 2020 19:27:35 GMT -5
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Post by guildx700 on May 11, 2020 22:28:07 GMT -5
Frankly, I love Macassar Ebony, too bad it's not used more. A great mix of rosewood and Ebony in feel, wear & tone.
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Post by LTB on May 12, 2020 0:14:53 GMT -5
I too would love it as it is the nicest looking species of Ebony I have seen.
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Post by guildx700 on May 12, 2020 22:47:32 GMT -5
I too would love it as it is the nicest looking species of Ebony I have seen. And probably the most overlooked but best choice to hit the fine line of ebony/ rosewood. IMO. Got only a handful of guitars with it, and built 2 with it. I love it.
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Post by Leftee on May 13, 2020 7:15:24 GMT -5
You can still get Macassar ebony from Warmoth.
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Post by Mikeyguitar on May 13, 2020 17:21:38 GMT -5
LTB said: Curious, how were your 70's Gibsons? Any issues with uneven fret heights or other stuff?
My 1976 Explorer has amazing frets, that is if you like the near fretless wonder style, which I do. I bought it new in 1978. Watched it sit at the store for nearly 2 years. Also....the nut is one of the best cut stock Gibson ones I've seen. This is compared to a very thin, quite small round toothpick:
Not to start trouble...but that neck looks like Rosewood to me. Then again, I don't think you actually said that it was Ebony...
I have Ebony on my 1978 LP Custom and enjoy it. I also have it on my 2007 Jackson Soloist. I also have a few Maple fret board guitars and like it as well. I have 1 Rosewooded fretboard - it's on a Strat. I actually swapped necks from another Strat because I really liked how dark and uniform it is. I'm not crazy about the graininess of the look...but it really doesn't bother me when I play - in fact it's probably the guitar I play the most.
I don't like the "newer Rosewood" with all the color and striations and stuff...just looks cheap to me. But that's me.
As far as fret sprout goes - is it my imagination, or does EVERY maple fretboard from a guitar made in Mexico have this issue? Can't wait to see if the guitar I recently ordered will have this issue. I'm preparing to do some fret filing.
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Post by funkykikuchiyo on May 13, 2020 19:01:17 GMT -5
As far as fret sprout goes - is it my imagination, or does EVERY maple fretboard from a guitar made in Mexico have this issue? Can't wait to see if the guitar I recently ordered will have this issue. I'm preparing to do some fret filing. Where do you live, Mikey? What sort of climate?
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Post by guildx700 on May 13, 2020 19:58:29 GMT -5
As far as fret sprout goes - is it my imagination, or does EVERY maple fretboard from a guitar made in Mexico have this issue? Can't wait to see if the guitar I recently ordered will have this issue. I'm preparing to do some fret filing. Where do you live, Mikey? What sort of climate? I sent back and did not buy any more made in Mexico strats due to extreme fretboard sprout. Unplayable IMO.
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Post by guildx700 on May 13, 2020 20:00:20 GMT -5
As far as fret sprout goes - is it my imagination, or does EVERY maple fretboard from a guitar made in Mexico have this issue? Can't wait to see if the guitar I recently ordered will have this issue. I'm preparing to do some fret filing. Where do you live, Mikey? What sort of climate? It has nothing to do with climate, it's simply poor workmanship. It does not happen over time, they come from the factory that way.
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Post by LTB on May 13, 2020 20:55:01 GMT -5
“ It has nothing to do with climate, it's simply poor workmanship. It does not happen over time, they come from the factory that way.”
I thought that too but I have had two guitars come to me fine and develop fret sprout within days of my owning them. One I had to dress a couple or three days later and then again aweek afterwards
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Post by funkykikuchiyo on May 13, 2020 21:20:45 GMT -5
Where do you live, Mikey? What sort of climate? It has nothing to do with climate, it's simply poor workmanship. It does not happen over time, they come from the factory that way. This is 100% wrong.
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Post by guildx700 on May 13, 2020 21:39:07 GMT -5
“ It has nothing to do with climate, it's simply poor workmanship. It does not happen over time, they come from the factory that way.” I thought that too but I have had two guitars come to me fine and develop fret sprout within days of my owning them. One I had to dress a couple or three days later and then again aweek afterwards Everything I got that was bad was bad from the factory. That's all I can report. Frankly....the reality is it HAS to be something VERY wrong on the front end that a poly finished maple neck would change that radically in just a few days when introduced into a different climate. My guess, their wood is improperly cured or just plain not suited to the application. There's obvious a quality issue from the factory, it may deviate after leaving there...but that IS where the problem starts. The fact it had to be dressed more than once in a short time period speaks volumes. I've got a guitar from 1939 in Wisconsin where we have massive swings in humidity and temperature from season to season and the frets have never popped out the sides. Fender is screwing up big time, it's just that simple, and totally unacceptable. And widespread. The guitars are just as well to be considered unplayable in that condition, eye candy only.
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Post by guildx700 on May 13, 2020 21:41:33 GMT -5
It has nothing to do with climate, it's simply poor workmanship. It does not happen over time, they come from the factory that way. This is 100% wrong. What is 100% wrong is the fact is it's happening far too often with these guitars.
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Post by LTB on May 13, 2020 23:40:24 GMT -5
Funky and guildx700, is it possible they have changed the methods that were used in the past for drying wood I.e. amount of time and or temperature? I saw a factory tour of Fender or Gibson about 20 years ago (sorry, don't remember which) that showed they let wood dry for a year at certain higher temp and lower humidity levels. What do you say?
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sirWheat
Wholenote
For a better future, play Stevie Wonder for your children.
Posts: 319
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Post by sirWheat on May 14, 2020 1:43:17 GMT -5
Fact is, wood is a fickle material. Yep, it's possible that that the wood wasn't cured well at the outset but there isn't much money to be saved by skimping on kiln time and if that's what Fender (or whoever) were doing then fret-sprout would be the least of their (and our) worries. Short of obvious rot or punkiness there's little you can do to discern the quality of a given piece of wood (especially when it's thicker) with regard to how it will act as time goes by without spending a lot of time and money doing so and even then it's a crap-shoot. Further, maple is a well-known "mover," figured varieties being the worst of the lot. I once made a dart board cabinet for someone out of figured maple; over the course of one winter each of the doors widened by more than 1/16". Whatever finish is on it has nothing to do with whether or not it will move; humidity is the usual culprit and no finish will keep it out of there. Your guitar neck was likely made in a factory where the humidity is kept within a fairly tight tolerance, then it was boxed up and shipped in non-controlled environments like planes (very dry) and/or ships (quite wet) then trucked, possibly through a few different climates, to the store, then to your house with whatever humidity level you have going on there. Yep, some necks don't move much or not at all. It's just luck of the draw.
I'm a cabinet maker and have worked a ton of maple over the years, usually buying it in the rough and milling it myself. Sometimes I get stuff that is wonderfully stable, sometimes it is just a bear to work with. The last couple years in fact the maple I've been getting has been pretty ornery, prone to chipping and general squirrelly-ness. Why? Ya got me. Given that trees are generally harvested in large quantities from different areas year to year it may be that different areas of the globe produce better or worse grades of the same species of tree due to climatic variances. Not to mention the fact that we just don't have too many nice, big, straight-grained trees left.
Ebony and rosewood, among other tropical hardwoods, are generally reliable where stability is concerned but again, wood is fickle. If you think that older guitars didn't suffer so many vagaries, you're probably right but it's because that wood came from nice, old-growth trees, the kind we don't have anymore. Where stability is concerned there isn't much you can do other than make sure it's dried properly and stored in a stable environment but there ain't no guarantees.
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Post by LTB on May 14, 2020 5:25:17 GMT -5
sirWheat, thank you for your insight and detailed response which answered a multitude of questions. Never thought about woods from trees being older wood years ago compared To them nowadays being new wood but it makes perfect sense 😉
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