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Post by roly on Jul 2, 2020 3:41:10 GMT -5
The old man was, by no means, a fountain of advice. (I could go on indefinitely about his and my faults).
However, he did say "you have to MAKE it work" when he and I were discussing how to succeed in a relationship.
Here's my conclusions.
1 You must be able to forgive others.
2 You must be able to forgive yourself.
Without those fundamental skills, failure is the only possible result.
Sure, you can persevere in misery but, without forgiveness, it's no longer a functioning relationship.
Not exactly a light topic.
cheers
Roly
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Ayns
Wholenote
Posts: 767
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Post by Ayns on Jul 2, 2020 4:33:44 GMT -5
I agree. Don't beat yourself up. Don't ruminate on past events.
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Post by budg on Jul 2, 2020 5:29:06 GMT -5
Yes. Since as humans we are flawed , those words are essential not only in dealing with others , but most importantly dealing with yourself. Love and forgive yourself then love and forgive others. What Anys said . Great advice.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2020 7:09:57 GMT -5
I’ve learned after 64 years that you can’t truly love others if you can’t love yourself.
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Post by Peegoo 🏁 on Jul 2, 2020 7:25:29 GMT -5
Roly, this is actually a great topic because we all (especially myself) need to be reminded to objectively reflect inwardly despite the myriad external distractions of our current times. The Golden Rule is one of the simplest things to do, but human stubbornness...often stubbornly prevails. Forgiving oneself is a good thing, but at the same time one must also strive to improve to prevent committing the same mistakes of the past. It's like that old saying, "when you point a finger at someone, there are three fingers pointing back at you." Thanks for this. PS: Scott L., you're lookin' pretty fetching for 64  |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2020 7:44:41 GMT -5
Scott L., you're lookin' pretty fetching for 64
Yeah, that Leica is a lovely piece of machinery. 😁
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Post by HenryJ on Jul 2, 2020 7:58:44 GMT -5
Great topic indeed. People need to reach out and to be kind to one another.
Thomas Boswell, Washington Post sportswriter, once wrote a book called How Real Life Imitates the World Series. I disagree with that title. I think real life imitates the regular season.
But when people fail to reach out to each other, then life is imitating tee-ball. When my younger son was small, he played tee ball. When someone hit the ball between the right fielder and the center fielder, each kid just stood there, looking down at the ball and then each other, their body language saying "It's closer to you. Pick it up," and the other kid's body language says "No, you pick it up, it's closer to you." And both kids just stand there as the coach sends the runner to the next base, one base at a time.
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Post by Taildragger on Jul 2, 2020 11:04:20 GMT -5
"Let him who is without fault cast the first stone"...or however the saying goes.
I've been with the same woman for 52 years (except for 5 of which, during the early going, when it was "off-and-on").
Think we haven't both had to "forgive and forget" on occasion?
Especially at this stage of life, it's nice that my best, longest-running friendship is with the lady to whom I'm married.
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Post by stratcowboy on Jul 2, 2020 11:13:45 GMT -5
Awesome accomplishment!
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Post by Auf Kiltre on Jul 2, 2020 11:23:02 GMT -5
I have far too much time on my hands and spend a great deal of it pontificating and philosophizing for self amusement. I recently jotted this down and while I meant it in a broader sense, I think there is applicability to one on one relationships. A lot of our conflicts are repetitions of time proven failures.
"History doesn't repeat itself through negligence but rather through deliberate acts of arrogance. The limitation of mankind is its blind and deaf rush to rebrand and reinvent itself with time proven failure."
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2020 12:20:27 GMT -5
The caveat to this of course is both participants in a relationship subscribing to the same ideal. One can try their best and things still may go awry.
Some of us haven't been fortunate enough to find such partners.
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Post by hushnel on Jul 2, 2020 13:03:55 GMT -5
Simple in concept, life changing once mastered. Eventually it can apply to so much more. It can diminish anger even in confrontations with strangers, the foundation of self control.
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Post by Auf Kiltre on Jul 2, 2020 13:40:27 GMT -5
The caveat to this of course is both participants in a relationship subscribing to the same ideal. One can try their best and things still may go awry. I have always thought that in most good hetro relationships it would take a lot for the man to walk away. He on the other hand could flame the relationship by saying something unfortunate in his sleep, lol. Vive la différence. |
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Post by stratcowboy on Jul 2, 2020 15:57:47 GMT -5
"History doesn't repeat itself through negligence but rather through deliberate acts of arrogance. The limitation of mankind is its blind and deaf rush to rebrand and reinvent itself with time proven failure." I'll buy that (as long as it's not too expensive). |
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Post by Taildragger on Jul 2, 2020 16:45:38 GMT -5
"History doesn't repeat itself through negligence but rather through deliberate acts of arrogance. The limitation of mankind is its blind and deaf rush to rebrand and reinvent itself with time proven failure." I'll buy that (as long as it's not too expensive). Or "deiberate acts of ignorance". If you've never bothered to learn about what hasn't worked throughout history, you'll probably think that those things are a good idea when somebody re-packages them and runs them by you again.
I won't be any more specific than that vis-a-vis current events because...well...we're not s'posed to. |
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Post by stratcowboy on Jul 2, 2020 17:23:00 GMT -5
I totally get it. Even before your disclaimer, my mind was already on...well...you know. And, yes...seen this before, unfortunately.
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Post by oldnjplayer on Jul 3, 2020 9:48:57 GMT -5
Gotta agree. Holding on to hate or a grudge gives control to those you are hating. Don't want them in my head. I nothing can be done about a situation, move on.
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Post by gato on Jul 3, 2020 10:12:14 GMT -5
Forgiving may at times, lead to inappropriate hand gestures from the forgiven:
"I forgive you for abandoning your shopping cart next to my vehicle."
"I forgive you for taking two parking spaces."
"I forgive you for not yielding to me in the crosswalk."
"I forgive you for letting your dog decorate my front lawn."
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Post by hushnel on Jul 5, 2020 14:27:35 GMT -5
I forgive your mother for bringing you into this world.
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Post by roly on Jul 5, 2020 14:59:05 GMT -5
hushnel
Me too.
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Post by Larry Madsen on Jul 5, 2020 16:57:28 GMT -5
I've encountered several ways to look at the topic of relationships. I start by saying this about the idea of loving one's self. This is going to sound harsh, but I mean no disrespect to anyone.  I have no idea in the world what that means. It might be because I have spent my life being so darn busy trying to learn how to fit in to life and those who are most important to me that the idea of wondering if I love myself or not just seems a bit insane. Next: Sometimes we hear people say relationships are a 50/50 deal. I once had a person in my life who said that's not true. Relationships are a 100/100 percent deal. That resonates with me to a certain extent. Last: I once knew a girl. I would not really call her a girlfriend though she was a girl and she was my friend. Her advice was as follows. Never give (100%) all you have to any relationship, because if you find out what you are giving is not enough ... you will have nothing more to give. This too resonates with me. I will also say I agree 100% with "the old man" ... If you value the relationship you simply have to make it work.  |
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Post by rickyguitar on Jul 5, 2020 22:37:36 GMT -5
On a parallel note, sometimes you have to choose to honor the commitment and let everything else go.
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Post by stratcowboy on Jul 5, 2020 22:45:17 GMT -5
All interesting perspectives. Life is complex...no?
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swampyankee
Wholenote
Fakin' it 'til I'm makin' it since 1956
Posts: 713
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Post by swampyankee on Jul 6, 2020 8:49:57 GMT -5
Next: Sometimes we hear people say relationships are a 50/50 deal. I once had a person in my life who said that's not true. Relationships are a 100/100 percent deal. That resonates with me to a certain extent. This is true, but you are only 50% of the equation. When I was struggling with keeping a 30 year marriage together, I spent time in counseling. One of the things that the counselor said was that as much as I tried to make it work, I was still only 50% of the equation. The other party needed to be an active and willing participant in moving forward through life's changes. My takeaway from that relationship was a bit of advice I gave my son when he married, The 3 keys to a lifelong love: Adoration, Admiration and Respect |
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Post by Larry Madsen on Jul 6, 2020 8:54:16 GMT -5
This is true, but you are only 50% of the equation. Yes indeed. The rest of that equation is, you can not control the other person. How you deal with or respond to that lack of control is the essence of the situation. |
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Post by stratcowboy on Jul 6, 2020 9:46:44 GMT -5
you can not control the other person. How you deal with or respond to that lack of control is the essence of the situation. All very true. But you cannot subsume your own personal identity and individuality to subsequently become a "minority partner," either. Relationship crises in partnerships still have to come into balance in order to be survivable. You cannot always be "dealing with" or "responding to" the needs of another individual without taking your own needs into consideration. Ultimately you'll kind of disappear as an individual and have little fulfillment in life. There has to be give-and-take. None of this is ever easy, though my parents made it seem so. They were an incredible match. |
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Post by Larry Madsen on Jul 6, 2020 10:03:19 GMT -5
You cannot always be "dealing with" or "responding to" the needs of another individual without taking your own needs into consideration. In that circumstance the relationship might no longer be healthy. Dealing with or responding to it might involve escaping that which is unhealthy. While one can not control the other person we can control ourselves. When the relationship begins to resemble a hostage situation, it's time to "deal with" it and "respond to" it as such. As for taking our own needs into consideration, we as humans do always act in our own self interest, even when it seems we might not be. The only question is, are we acting rationally. To the extent we are able to accurately perceive reality and act rationally our life can be quite pleasant and manageable ... or not, if we can't. |
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Post by Auf Kiltre on Jul 6, 2020 10:55:11 GMT -5
I have seen people stay together far too long in doomed relationships. I know hindsight is always 20/20, but there are some glaringly obvious. Someone close to me existed in such a relationship for 30+ years and while he is no saint his wife was irredeemable. Totally devoid of a personality or simple insights. He finally acted on the long overdue and eventually found someone very much the opposite and is happy now. I suppose if one wished to be philosophical they could say that staying that long in that toxic relationship is what setup the conditions of finding his current partner.
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Post by gato on Jul 6, 2020 12:49:00 GMT -5
There is an old adage that opposites attract, but if that is true, why do so many people go on dating sites seeking someone with the same interests and opinions.
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Post by Larry Madsen on Jul 6, 2020 13:39:24 GMT -5
Another thought I was presented with in the past, by someone else.
"If what people desire most in life is to love someone and be loved in return ... Why is it so difficult?"
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