Shoes
Wholenote
Posts: 162
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Post by Shoes on Jul 26, 2020 12:49:22 GMT -5
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Post by Auf Kiltre on Jul 26, 2020 13:20:15 GMT -5
I had and foolishly traded away a Mossberg tactical. I can't remember the model but it was either actually or similar to the 500 Flex, with pistol grip. For a home defense shotgun this would be my direction again, but it sure looks like they are scarce.
During a home defense situation, my preference would be to not have to navigate rooms, halls and corners with the extra length of a full sized shotgun.
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Post by RonC Picker on Jul 26, 2020 13:37:51 GMT -5
A pump shotgun is a good choice, but a full length, 28" barrel is not a good choice for a home defense shotgun (and not the best for skeet shooting either.) I'd go with something with a shorter barrel.
Further, for skeet shooting in particular, a double-barrel, preferably an over-and-under, either with one trigger, is optimum. However, that isn't the best choice for home defense. YMMV.
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Post by NoSoapRadio on Jul 26, 2020 13:41:03 GMT -5
Shotguns designed for waterfowl hunting and sporting clays are generally supplied with a long barrel -- usually 28". This is not a great choice for home defense -- I prefer an 18.5" barrel on my Mossberg 500. Most entry level pump shotguns offer interchangeable barrels of different lengths -- you might look into this for the models you are considering. Pump shotguns may seem simple but they require a fair amount of practice to become proficient with them under real world conditions like shooting clays or a stressful home defense situation. It's easy to short shuck a pump which either fails to chamber a shell or stovepipes a spent shell. Personally, I prefer a handgun for home defense -- my Mossberg is just a backup. For sporting clays I like a semi auto shotgun. I use a Remington 1100 but a nice over under is on my wish list. The good news is most major label entry level shotguns are very good, including the two you listed. It's tough to go wrong with them. You need to go to your LGS and try them out. How a shotty fits you is a big deal.
Edit -- sorry guys -- you got to this while I was typing. But it looks like we're all saying the same thing.
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Post by LVF on Jul 26, 2020 13:52:02 GMT -5
I have a Mossberg 590. It'll blind ya before it makes you the red spot on the wall. It has the beans. Oh yeah, I have a Browning pump for the other sporty stuff.
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Post by Seldom Seen on Jul 26, 2020 13:56:25 GMT -5
For me weight has become the biggest factor. My club shotguns are over-under Berettas in 28 and 20 gauge. My wife shoots a Benelli ultralight semi in 28 gauge. My friends all want one after shooting hers. Barrels are 26” long.
My other shotguns are 12-gauge Remington and Ithaca pumps. I’ve had them for years and shoot proficiently with both. A pump is generally going to be lighter than a semi except for the aforementioned Benelli which has a carbon fiber vented rib and an aluminum receiver. I’m not a semi-auto guy but they are really nice. I do not know if a tactical length barrel is available.
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Post by K4 on Jul 26, 2020 14:13:36 GMT -5
For home defense you are better off with a handgun and a cell phone.
I shoot skeet with a wing master 28 inch barrel. I can hit the clays a long way out so the time to rack the slide is not too much of a problem for me. If I was competing I'd go with an over under or a semi-auto.
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Post by Taildragger on Jul 26, 2020 14:22:41 GMT -5
Another vote for Mossberg 500 ATP6 (or whatever they're calling it these days).
Basic but effective.
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Post by Mfitz804 on Jul 26, 2020 14:24:30 GMT -5
My dad’s home defense theory is that the sound of pumping the shotgun will be enough to deter a less ambitious invader.
Personally, I think it would cause more of a mess, ever try to get splattered criminal out of a sofa?
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Post by rok-a-bill-e on Jul 26, 2020 14:34:07 GMT -5
----"During a home defense situation, my preference would be to not have to navigate rooms, halls and corners---
I have thought the same but more and more realize that we are not swat teams clearing a building. Navigating around one's home in a defense situation can go very wrong, even for the pros. Unless you have others to protect, just barricade yourself in the safest room with gun pointing at door, in which case the length of barrel will not matter.
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Post by K4 on Jul 26, 2020 14:38:47 GMT -5
Seriously the best home defense is a Dog. Size does not matter, all it has to do is bark.
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Shoes
Wholenote
Posts: 162
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Post by Shoes on Jul 26, 2020 14:48:55 GMT -5
Well, I do have a dog and a 9mm Ruger so there's that. We are in the process of moving to western North Carolina and we will have some acreage so it would be for that kind of home defense. I'm also thinking about a 22 for plinking.
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Post by Auf Kiltre on Jul 26, 2020 14:55:59 GMT -5
My dad’s home defense theory is that the sound of pumping the shotgun will be enough to deter a less ambitious invader. Personally, I think it would cause more of a mess, ever try to get splattered criminal out of a sofa? An invader would not hear that sound from one who's truly prepared because there would have already been a shell chambered. That sound would likely be a que for an armed bad guy to start shooting wildly.
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Post by Auf Kiltre on Jul 26, 2020 15:03:35 GMT -5
----"During a home defense situation, my preference would be to not have to navigate rooms, halls and corners--- I have thought the same but more and more realize that we are not swat teams clearing a building. Navigating around one's home in a defense situation can go very wrong, even for the pros. Unless you have others to protect, just barricade yourself in the safest room with gun pointing at door, in which case the length of barrel will not matter. I don't see all circumstances being a last stand/barricaded room situation. I understand the point, but I could see situations where the wife hits the panic room with a handgun and I take fire power closer to the threat. Of course we've got to workout that whole not shooting me when I come back victoriously blowing on the smoking barrel🤠
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Post by Peegoo 🏁 on Jul 26, 2020 15:07:35 GMT -5
Yeah, it has been proven that an invader will not be deterred by the sound of a shotgun being racked. If you are armed with a shotgun and expect that to occur, you may end up the victim.
If you want a pistol grip, get the Remington because the safety is deactivated with the trigger finger.
The Mossberg 500-series has the safety on the top rear of the reciever. With a standerd stock, it's easy to actuate the sliding safety with the rear-hand thumb. With a pistol grip, however, you have to move the forward hand rearward to operate the safety, or remove your rear hand from the pistol grip to flip the switch. This is a bad thing.
Winchester makes a pump shotgun called the Defender that is inexpensive and perfect for heavy-artillery home defense.
The one other important thing to do after getting one that fits you is to go to the range and practice with it.
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Post by Leftee on Jul 26, 2020 15:16:20 GMT -5
Or practice in the spare bedroom.
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Post by Taildragger on Jul 26, 2020 15:33:56 GMT -5
To be said to wife within earshot of offspring heading out the door on their way to go live in their own place:
"Well, Hon, now that he/she has moved out, we can convert their bedroom into that range we've always wanted..."
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Post by Mfitz804 on Jul 26, 2020 15:41:53 GMT -5
My dad’s home defense theory is that the sound of pumping the shotgun will be enough to deter a less ambitious invader. Personally, I think it would cause more of a mess, ever try to get splattered criminal out of a sofa? An invader would not hear that sound from one who's truly prepared because there would have already been a shell chambered. That sound would likely be a que for an armed bad guy to start shooting wildly. Which was my counter argument. He’s banking on it being a kid or someone just looking for an easy target rather than a prepared assailant.
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Shoes
Wholenote
Posts: 162
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Post by Shoes on Jul 26, 2020 15:57:33 GMT -5
I think our new place is going to have a basement!
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Post by Auf Kiltre on Jul 26, 2020 16:18:04 GMT -5
I think when looking for an all around all purpose shotgun, you can't beat this one.
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Post by LVF on Jul 26, 2020 16:47:18 GMT -5
I like the features of the 590 like the safety position, the ease of loading and unloading and the 9 rounds I can stuff in it. not to mention, the very bright flashlight.
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Ragic
Wholenote
Posts: 170
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Post by Ragic on Jul 26, 2020 18:39:28 GMT -5
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Post by Larry Madsen on Jul 26, 2020 18:43:13 GMT -5
the best home defense is a Dog. Size does not matter, all it has to do is bark. One of the instructors I took my first concealed firearms permit course from was a retired NYPD officer named Tony. (Tony showed up on several early Pawn Stars episodes as a firearms expert) During his stint at NYPD he opted in for all sorts of extra duty because it padded his pension. One of the things he did was respond to all manner of home invasion situations. Tony told us that he never once responded to a residence where the was a dog. Navigating around one's home in a defense situation can go very wrong, Early in my firearms training we started doing training with clearing rooms. The lesson that stuck with me the strongest about it is ... "This is a very good way to get yourself killed". For home defense you are better off with a handgun and a cell phone. Yes indeed and if you can avoid gunfire by all means avoid it. If you can safely get out of the house, get out of the house it.
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Post by rok-a-bill-e on Jul 26, 2020 19:20:17 GMT -5
Ragic can you hit anything with that? I'm always dubious about the lack of a stock on a shotgun.
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Post by FlyonNylon on Jul 26, 2020 20:38:44 GMT -5
Hard to go wrong with a Remington 870 or Mossberg 500 with an 18.5" barrel. Personally I would buy a shotgun with a stock so you could shoulder it, but that's preference and probably biased since my shotgun is for hunting. Spread is kind of a misnomer at home defense ranges, at 12 feet or so 00 buckshot has only about a 1.5-2 inch spread, so shot placement is still very important.
In general any firearm is better than none, and any firearm that you are comfortable and experienced with is probably better than a "superior" home defense weapon that you find less comfortable.
Personally I used a Glock 17 for many years for home defense. We live in a virtually crime free area but every once in a while when things would go bump in the night and wake my wife up, I would actually feel pretty under-gunned walking around with only the handgun.
Several years ago got a Remington 870 (28" barrel) for small game and instantly felt much more confident with the shotgun, especially after spending some time in the dove fields. Probably due to shooting .22 and bb guns so much as a kid; I just like a long gun much better than a handgun.
Recently though I picked up an AR-15 platform rifle in 5.56x45mm and imo it is perfect for our home's defense. 5.56 tumbles after initial impact so many concerns about over penetration aren't necessarily valid compared to 00 buckshot or typical handgun ammo. Also frangible ammo is available for better or worse which alleviates those concerns. Plus I live in a brick house with space between neighbors.
Our beagle is very sensitive and very loud so a great watch dog and with 30rds of 5.56 leaning on the night-stand in an extremely ergonomic and comfortable rifle I no longer feel undergunned in any reasonable home defense situation.
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Post by K4 on Jul 26, 2020 21:12:49 GMT -5
That noisy Beagle pretty much guarantees you will never have to use the AR for it's intended purpose. Unless you cross Tony Soprano.
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Post by HeavyDuty on Jul 27, 2020 6:42:43 GMT -5
Shoes, you’re getting a lot of different opinions here, and they are all valid. The issue is that your two use cases are diametrically opposed.
If I were trying to do this with only one gun, I’d look for a Mossberg 500/590 or Remington 870 with a short 18.5” barrel, and also pick up a longer interchangeable barrel better suited to skeet. But, it will be a compromise. (My preference here is the Mossberg.)
The Mossberg Shockwave / Remington 870 TAC are actually easy to shoot, and are a decent choice for home defense. Of the two, I personally prefer the Mossberg.
For skeet, I *think* semi autos and doubles still rule the roost. You can undoubtedly have fun and get started with a pump, though.
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Post by Mike the marksman on Jul 27, 2020 7:02:43 GMT -5
I just don't see a shotgun suitable for home defense being suitable for skeet shooting or vice-versa. I know it's possible to do anything with anything, but there are right tools for the job. A shotgun with interchangeable barrels is probably a good idea
the whole racking the shotgun to deter burglars idea is right up there with warning shots, shooting to wound and "shooting the gun out of their hand" as far as home defense myths. If you have the luxury of doing that then deadly force probably isn't warranted in the first place. A barking dog or simply turning a light on is probably a better deterrent.
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Shoes
Wholenote
Posts: 162
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Post by Shoes on Jul 27, 2020 7:08:43 GMT -5
On paper I think I'm leaning towards the Mossberg. I'll hit the stores this week and see what shakes out. Thanks for all the tips guys.
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Post by Auf Kiltre on Jul 27, 2020 7:39:33 GMT -5
the whole racking the shotgun to deter burglars idea is right up there with warning shots, shooting to wound and "shooting the gun out of their hand" as far as home defense myths. Here under Texas law a warning shot is likely going to get you an aggravated assault with a deadly weapon charge, particularly as it pertains to confrontations outside the domicile. You have to have reason to discharge that shotgun from the balcony, and a warning isn't a good one.
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