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Post by Vibroluxer on Aug 21, 2020 10:52:23 GMT -5
I used to have a 52ri that had the Callaham bridge and control plate assembly. I really liked the fit, finish, and feel.
Now, they don't do the freezing process. I'm not sure if it makes a difference.
Have any advice or insights about the freezing as it affects tone? I only ask as I'm to that point in a guitar build and I was hoping to get the parts from Callaham and I don't know if the freezing of the parts was snake oil or if it really did something. I know the prices are the same.
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Post by Peegoo 🏁 on Aug 21, 2020 13:32:59 GMT -5
From an engineering standpoint, cryogenic treatment of metal parts does influence their grain structure and makes them stronger and more durable. This is important for critical parts where failure of the part could be a very bad thing, such as the big nut that holds the rotor on a helicopter (an exaggeration, but that's the idea).
Guitar parts are not subject to the kinds of stresses cryo treatment is intended to reduce. Any claims of tonal improvement are 100% snake oil.
Think about it this way: if cryo treatment of guitar hardware really did improve tone, (1) many pros would be using it, and (2) Callaham would still be using the process and simply letting word of mouth do all their marketing. Neither of these examples is true.
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Post by Vibroluxer on Aug 21, 2020 13:44:59 GMT -5
Thanks, Gino! They don't mention it on their website anymore so I'm not trying to give them a hard time. I liked the quality of their products which just happened to have been the cyro kind. I would think the way they build their goods ensures a lifetime of use without the frozen bit.
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Post by Peegoo 🏁 on Aug 21, 2020 15:22:38 GMT -5
Yeah, they do make nice parts and they pay a lot of attention to polishing and final appearance.
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Post by Auf Kiltre on Aug 22, 2020 11:12:44 GMT -5
I think when it comes to composition affecting guitar tone, if it can be proven that anything metal, plastic or wood does in fact change the tone, most of us goobers will try it because there'll be an assumption it'll be better.
Auf, Obergooberfuhrer.
BTW, I do have a Callaham block and top plate and think they're nice.
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Post by funkykikuchiyo on Aug 22, 2020 12:07:13 GMT -5
That cryo treatment makes a very real difference to a material is 100% factual and demonstrable. That part is not at all snake oil. I've been experimenting with cryo fret wire. I don't know if it lasts longer (that is a hard test to do, unless the difference is extremely obvious), but it definitely feels different under my tools. They feel slightly harder and less gooey. They cut with more of a snap. I'm comparing the exact same brand and size of wire that I have used on a regular basis, so I trust my own subjective senses on that.
For guitar hardware, off of the top of my head the three things that will affect tone the most are 1) mass, 2) shape (i.e. break angles over saddles) and 3) resonance. Cryo won't affect 1 or 2, and 3 is an interesting thought. It is plausible that the native resonant properties of a material will change after cryo treatment. Some people have sworn by cryo stuff for banjo hardware, but who trusts banjo players? Where I'd be looking for good data would be the drummers. Cymbals are probably the instrument that magnifies tonal properties of metals more than any other, and by a large degree. Cymbal makers have probably the best ears for timbre among instrument makers out there, too. When the rest of the world is hearing things in terms of 3-band eq, they're hearing decay and subtle harmonics that most computers won't be able to pick out. A quick google search for cryo treated cymbals doesn't return much except a few message board discussions that don't seem scientific. Most seem more interested in cryo treatment for durability than for tone.
There is some talk among brass/wind instruments, but I don't see much about A/B comparisons.
My gut tells me that if the jury is out on brass instruments and cymbals where the metal is a huge component of the tone, then it is likely not impactful enough on guitar hardware. I'm open to good data, though.
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Post by Peegoo 🏁 on Aug 22, 2020 18:51:55 GMT -5
I'm sure a sonic difference could be detected with Expensive German Test Equipment, but I prefer to be realistic about it because we don't listen to music using frequency analyzers that can parse audio down to nanometric dimensions. Your mileage may vary. It's like tone capacitors in a passive guitar circuit: if you can hear a difference between a two-cent cap and a $40 cap, by all means don't let me stop you from dropping the two Jacksons to get one because my opinion--like Granny Hawkins' opinion of big talk--is worth doodly squat
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Post by funkykikuchiyo on Aug 23, 2020 13:32:55 GMT -5
I'm sure a sonic difference could be detected with Expensive German Test Equipment, but I prefer to be realistic about it because we don't listen to music using frequency analyzers that can parse audio down to nanometric dimensions. Your mileage may vary. Very true, but I think decently trained human senses are very sophisticated. It takes some very high tech stuff that has only gotten decent in the past few years to recognize faces or voices, but toddlers can do those things easily. Picking voices out of a room full of noise, echo location, hearing the difference in rooms, we're able to do an awful lot that would be tricky given just measuring equipment. Something might be behaving differently only in a very narrow frequency band, but it could be right in the sweet spot where our ears pick up on it immediately. Also, our ears can be good at masking differences, too. We're pretty bad at judging volume, and need good measuring equipment for that because our brains are natural auto-levelers.
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Post by Mfitz804 on Aug 26, 2020 14:56:30 GMT -5
Callahan saddles completely reinvigorated my 78 Strat, when the originals were so worn they had deep grooves in them that I would've thought were added intentionally if I didn't know that the guitar was basically unplayed when I obtained it.
Now I just need to have the nut redone, which I keep procrastinating about.
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