TBird
Wholenote
Posts: 298
Formerly Known As: greg1948
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Post by TBird on Sept 27, 2020 9:28:50 GMT -5
I use Logic Pro X as my DAW. A friend sent me a track of a song he recorded without any kind of click, so the tempo of the song varies. I want to add a drum track using EZ Drummer but I find synchronizing to his track is almost impossible. I can use the BPM counter in Logic to find the average tempo, but since his audio tempo shifts (very subtlety) and the drum track mechanically follows the project tempo, they don't stay in sync.
Pro Logic has some options in setting project tempo, like Auto Temp and Adapt Project Tempo, but I don't fully understand these options (even after seeing some YT vids). I'm just hoping that someone here has another solution.
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Post by Auf Kiltre on Sept 27, 2020 10:51:37 GMT -5
This won't help, but I did this in Pro Tools/EZDRUMMER and it turned out well. But it was tedious. I set up tempo markers every 4 beats or so through the entire timeline. That set the MIDI map for EZDRUMMER to follow.
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Post by Peegoo 🏁 on Sept 27, 2020 11:52:15 GMT -5
Fixing stuff like this in a track is just tedious work. Nudging events left and right so tempos match is gruntwork and not fun at all. There's no easy way to do it.
You can save yourself the headache in the future.
If you are collaborating with others and they are sending you stuff to add your drums, have them first establish a separate click track, which they play along with while recording their part. They send you both tracks. This makes it super easy because you know what the BPM is--and they are also sticking to the beat.
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Post by Auf Kiltre on Sept 27, 2020 14:00:20 GMT -5
To clarify, when I set up tempo markers, I did it against the original play, using the kick drum wav form as the ruler. In Pro Tools you can "Tab to transients" and a kick drum is a good source both audibly and visually. In the end the markers then tell any MIDI that's following where the beats are. Drummers who didn't track to a click can really fluctuate. Say the song has a general BPM of 110. Its been my observation one bar may be 113, the next 109. There is no way to get a clean feel without markers mapping the originally played drums. Once you establish the tempo map, you still have to program drums that fit the groove, preferably as close to the originally tracked drummer.
I have and still occasionally use Drumagog. In theory you can use wav forms like a kick and snare to trigger other samples of drums. In practice its a bit finicky but works well for swapping out a kick. I did that once with a drummer who had a horrendous big old flabby kick.
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Grizbear-NJ
Wholenote
"I'll do the BEATING around here"
Posts: 217
Age: 71
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Post by Grizbear-NJ on Sept 27, 2020 14:09:37 GMT -5
I have to agree with Professor's Auf Kiltre & Peegoo; you have a big nut to crack. If I understand correctly, you have a single track (either vocal or instrumental) with a fluctuating tempo that you want to interact (mix) with a constant tempo. In a live situation; not really a big problem. The slang term for that variation is called "Racing & Dragging". Musicians do it all the time when interacting live; when you hit certain energy levels on stage, tempos will vary slightly.
In a recording studio situation, as professor Peegoo points out, a "Click Track" (an audio or visual metronome) is a must to be used by everybody who is playing, to maintain the proper BPM (Beats Per Minute) for the song. In my experience, if a musician was out of "sync"; the audio engineer simply cut the track and overdubbed it with the correction needed. (usually an different musician) With today's electronic capabilities, I have to take a step back and reminisce. (I so much like the old days better!) Electronically, you are going to have to stabilize the track, and then interface it with it EZDRUMMER.
Good Luck! You have your work cut out for you.
(Historical Note: A drummer friend of mine tried to incorporate an electronic drum track in a live performance; it back-fired.
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Post by Auf Kiltre on Sept 27, 2020 14:14:37 GMT -5
This is one track that I entirely replaced the originally played drums with EZdrummer using the method I described above. It took me days. (ignore the blatant and cringing plagiarism of Stone Temple Pilots "Big Empty" in the first line :-() soundcloud.com/user-293867408/no-more |
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TBird
Wholenote
Posts: 298
Formerly Known As: greg1948
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Post by TBird on Sept 27, 2020 19:30:44 GMT -5
My friend probably recorded the track on his phone, singing and playing guitar. Nothing to sync to. It wasn't meant to be part of a larger production, just a way to get me familiar with the song. It's mostly a folkie type tune, so no drums or percussion needed. I did throw in a couple of guitar tracks and a vocal harmony track. Again, just for fun, so I'm not going to spend hours or days on it. If he does want to expand the production, I definitely will have him make a click track so I don't pull out the little hair I have left.
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Post by Peegoo 🏁 on Sept 27, 2020 20:54:53 GMT -5
Cool. Another suggestion is one of these: www.amazon.com/Wittner-865061-Metronome/dp/B0002E2YMG/ref=sr_1_2When recording on a phone, a phone-app metronome is a pain in the arse. Get a separate metronome like the Wittner; it has selectable audio and/or flashing LED that's adjustable to click or flash to the selected BPM. I use one of these in flash mode to keep me on time when practicing chords and single notes. If I'm recording anything prior to doing the drum track, I always have a clisk track going. If you've never used a metronome and you try one, I guarantee the first thing that will pop into your brain is, "Holy heck, my brand new metronome is already broken. It's drifting all over the place." ^^^That Is TRUE!^^^ It's pretty eye opening. |
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TBird
Wholenote
Posts: 298
Formerly Known As: greg1948
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Post by TBird on Sept 28, 2020 6:45:49 GMT -5
I'm giving my friend a 2x2 audio interface I had laying around. He's no techie, but he should be able to get some recording done on his iMac, likely with Garage Band. If we get that far, I'll at least make sure he uses the metronome. It should fix that problem. Of course, getting him up and running on a DAW will likely be a PITA for me. LOL!
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Post by themaestro on Sept 28, 2020 7:42:00 GMT -5
If you are collaborating with others and they are sending you stuff to add your drums, have them first establish a separate click track, which they play along with while recording their part. Also pertinent is the comment about "why is this metronome drifting all over the place?". Playing to a click is an acquired skill. I have tried recording a number of people, including drummers, who just could not stick with a click. It's like they don't even hear it. |
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Post by Auf Kiltre on Sept 28, 2020 10:17:15 GMT -5
Playing to a click is an acquired skill Of all the drummers I've worked with over the years there is exactly one who is skilled in playing to a meter. In fact he does "play through" clinics and actually did one on my version of "Wichita Lineman". While not a crazy complicated tune, staying in the pocket of something already tracked requires skill. I find a lot of drummers tend to rush through turn arounds and fills and that's where they lose the click. I miss playing with Moe. We used to call him the Bus Driver. |
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Post by Peegoo 🏁 on Sept 29, 2020 10:38:26 GMT -5
Playing to a click is an acquired skill. I have tried recording a number of people, including drummers, who just could not stick with a click. It's like they don't even hear it. It is hard to do. It is a perishable skill, which is why I always play to a metronome when it's just me and a guitar. I've been doing it for 20+ years and I still have difficulty with it. |
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