TBird
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Posts: 298
Formerly Known As: greg1948
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Post by TBird on Oct 19, 2020 14:55:49 GMT -5
I'm working on a new/old song, Fooled Around And Fell In Love by Elvin Bishop. The chord charts I'm working with show D F#m C G, which I believe is the key of G. I wanted to play along with the original recording, but those chords don't sound right. I just can't seem to lock in, even playing by half-steps higher and lower. I know an old recording trick is to speed up the original tape to make the vocals sound brighter and higher. I've tried altering the pitch of the recording in Audacity, but it's still giving me fits. The band is doing the song in G, but I'd still like to know the original key.
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Post by Rick Knight on Oct 20, 2020 8:36:45 GMT -5
Maybe F Am Eb Bb with the recording?
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Post by ninworks on Oct 20, 2020 9:22:34 GMT -5
It actually cycles back and forth between F Major (Ionian) and F Mixolydian. When it goes to the Eb Major chord is when it cycles to the Mixolydian mode. It's a I-vi-b7Maj-IV chord progression. It's mostly in F Major. Some modal hijinks going on there.
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Grizbear-NJ
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"I'll do the BEATING around here"
Posts: 217
Age: 71
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Post by Grizbear-NJ on Oct 20, 2020 10:39:39 GMT -5
TBird: First of all, Good Luck with the song, I always loved it.
The recording trick you were describing is called "compression". Back in the day, when recorded songs had to be within a certain "Time Frame" for production purposes; the audio engineers would speed up the recording (ever so slightly) to cut seconds off of the finished recording. The side effects were exactly what you described. The key was raised a half step, and the tempo was increased a few BPM. If you compared a recorded version and a live version of the song side by side, you would spot it immediately.
As a drummer, the song's tempo was my major concern; the key of the song doesn't really effect my playing. However; in a band situation, that issue can create real havoc with vocals and instrumentals. Keep an open mind, don't get tunnel vision; work within the structure of the song. Even the original artists changed the key for live performances.
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Post by Peegoo 🏁 on Oct 20, 2020 10:44:27 GMT -5
This is a GREAT tune. And it's always caused this confusion, just like whether Sweet Home is in the key of G...or is it D?
There's a similar discussion On Another Network (other guitar Website) about the key of Chris Isaak's tune Wicked Game. Most agree it's in A...but it can also be E mixo, so I think the best approach with this stuff is to trust your ear like you're doing, Greg.
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Post by ninworks on Oct 21, 2020 6:24:11 GMT -5
...... just like whether Sweet Home is in the key of G...or is it D? That's in D Mixolydian BTW. The G is the IV chord in that progression. |
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TBird
Wholenote
Posts: 298
Formerly Known As: greg1948
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Post by TBird on Oct 21, 2020 7:11:12 GMT -5
Sometimes I miss an important detail. Like the ultimateguitar chord chart that showed the chords D/F#m/C/G. I missed the note at the top - capo 3. So that would make the actual key F? I can fake the solo using F maj pentatonics.
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Post by ninworks on Oct 21, 2020 7:23:25 GMT -5
Capo 5 would be F.
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MoJoe
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Formerly Known As: quiksilver
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Post by MoJoe on Oct 24, 2020 4:21:17 GMT -5
If I had to get it on the spot/jamming and had to play something over it, to simplify, I'd hear an underlying I - V - IV. movement. The V as its parallel minor, Eb as a spicy triton to that and functioning as sub4 to the IV. That cool with anyone?
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Post by ninworks on Oct 24, 2020 8:04:11 GMT -5
Oops. I stated that incorrectly. Playing a D shaped chord with the capo on the 3rd fret is correct. That would be F.
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Post by k9bigdog on Oct 31, 2020 7:09:01 GMT -5
I'm not big on the names of the different modes, but based on the chords in that song I've always considered it and played it as in the key of Bb. The Am is kind of an accidental because of the E natural note making it like a 7aug5 chord. Again, I've more or less forgotten the modal parts of my music thoery training but the chord structure is still in my head.
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Post by Duke on Nov 1, 2020 12:05:30 GMT -5
F Major
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Post by k9bigdog on Nov 3, 2020 9:00:15 GMT -5
Yeah, no. It's Bb if it's anything. |
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Post by ninworks on Nov 3, 2020 10:21:07 GMT -5
All you have to do is follow the melody and the bass notes. The melody uses the E natural repeatedly and the bass note always resolves to the F. Try playing a Bb as the bass note through the entire verse and you will be able to hear clearly that it is not the root note of the key center.
There is no E natural note in the key of Bb. It's the Major 7th degree (used repeatedly as a passing tone in the melody) of F Major however. It's clearly defined as F. If you want to use the key of Bb as a reference you would need to play it as the Lydian mode (built on the 4th degree of the major scale) for most of the song. Mickey throws the minor 3rd of F in the melody on the Bb chord occasionally to make it bluesy.
The Eb Major chord in the progression is a borrowed chord built on the b7th from the parallel mode of F Mixolydian. The EbMaj chord pulls the chord progression to Bb Major which makes the final BbMaj to FMaj (IV - I, plagal cadence) the resolution back to the I chord, F Major, for the start of the next melodic phrase. That's nothing all that unusual.
The C Major chord at the end of the bridge is the V chord and resolves back to F Major for the guitar solo. Again defining the key center as F Major. The V - I cadence is about as strong a reference to F Major as there is.
That's all I'm going to say about it.
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Post by k9bigdog on Nov 4, 2020 6:55:43 GMT -5
Ok I can see that now.
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MoJoe
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Formerly Known As: quiksilver
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Post by MoJoe on Nov 4, 2020 10:14:07 GMT -5
Thanks.
#8 dumbed down suggestion to simplify and training the ear for quick starters wishing to shoot from the hip without the fancy theories? No commas. 🙂
Reminder: I - mIII (V) - as tritone to the iii and passing chord/sus4 to - IV
FMaj Amin Eb Bb
Thinking I - V - (sus4) to IV when in a bluesy jamming situation works for me. Say I never heard the song before and had to come up with something on the spot.
What say the jazz police?
Disclaimer: Not trolling for an answer if anyone's stressed out by now..
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Post by ninworks on Nov 5, 2020 6:24:38 GMT -5
I made an error in my first post. Seeing MoJo's post brought it to my attention. The progression is a I-iii-b7Maj-IV.
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GmanNJ
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somewhere deep in the swamps of Joisey
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Post by GmanNJ on Nov 29, 2020 18:49:04 GMT -5
...... just like whether Sweet Home is in the key of G...or is it D? That's in D Mixolydian BTW. The G is the IV chord in that progression. Most southern rock is in mixolydian. it’s the happy mode 😀 |
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