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Post by modbus on Dec 1, 2020 12:35:56 GMT -5
Lately I've been wanting to get a super strat type guitar with a locking trem. I've never had one before. I really have very little experience with trem bridges in general. When I got my first strat, I didn't like the way the bridge worked at all so I blocked it so it wouldn't move. It's been that way ever since, and every other strat I've ever had has gotten the same treatment.
FWIW, what I really didn't like about the bridge was that it went out of tune with even just a little tweak of the bar, so with all the other idiosyncrasies of the bridge, it made blocking it an easy decision. With a locking trem, the main function should work fine, so I'd like to give one a try.
What I'm wondering is, if you have a Floyd Rose or the like, if you go to a drop D tuning, do all the other strings go sharp because the bridge shifts a bit? What about if you tune to an E-flat, do you have to readjust the spring tension on the bridge?
I've also heard that you should change the strings one at a time, because if you take them all off at once, it's a nightmare to get it back to a proper set up.
So what's the Moe's verdict, are locking trems more trouble than they are worth, or are they relatively trouble free?
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Post by Leftee on Dec 1, 2020 12:47:01 GMT -5
When I played in a band I only had one guitar with a Kahler and locking nut.
I always changed my strings all at once. I had a wooden block to place in the trem to hold it up. I would change strings and practice for a half hour or so. Then set it up - good to go. Fine tuning at the bridge was all that would be needed from there.
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Post by modbus on Dec 1, 2020 14:12:19 GMT -5
What about tuning to Drop-D or E-flat? Do you have to make a lot of adjustments to get all the strings to tune and sit right, or is it pretty much just like any other guitar?
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Post by Leftee on Dec 1, 2020 14:14:23 GMT -5
That I can’t speak to.
But obviously... with less string tension the trem will sit back more.
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Post by Mike the marksman on Dec 2, 2020 7:59:41 GMT -5
Tuning to drop-D will be a pain *only* if it's set up to float; It's the same on all fulcrum-type tremolos, including strat trems. You can set it up for dive-only operation like Eddie Van Halen so you can tune to drop D without the other strings going out of tune.
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Post by bluzcat on Dec 2, 2020 14:09:26 GMT -5
There is the EVH D-tuna which with the pull of a switch pulls the low E to D without causing the others to go out of tune. Only works on a Floyd as far as I know.
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Post by Leftee on Dec 2, 2020 14:13:34 GMT -5
The *obvious* answer is you need a guitar for each tuning.
And a backup.
You’re welcome.
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Post by Mike the marksman on Dec 2, 2020 14:20:26 GMT -5
There is the EVH D-tuna which with the pull of a switch pulls the low E to D without causing the others to go out of tune. Only works on a Floyd as far as I know. Right, it only works on a Floyd, and only works if the Floyd is decked/dive only (how EVH used it). If you use it with a floating Floyd the other strings will go out of tune.
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Post by modbus on Dec 2, 2020 14:27:57 GMT -5
There's an Ibanez RG I'm lusting over, but it doesn't have an actual Floyd Rose.
I just don't want to have to do a full setup for a minor tuning change. If there's a way to avoid that, I'm a happy camper.
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Post by Mikeyguitar on Dec 2, 2020 15:16:47 GMT -5
I never really had a problem with a floating trem guitar. I wouldn't think dropped D would be an issue. Yes, it will make your trem sit a little differently...but so will different string gauges.
What I do is: * put on new strings * keep attempting to tune - realize that you only have to get the tuning of all strings in the ballpark, not exact. * lock down the nut * fine tune at the bridge. * done
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Post by insanecooker on Dec 2, 2020 15:41:30 GMT -5
It will not be a full setup - you'll just have to retune every string, but that's really it.
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Post by Pinetree on Dec 2, 2020 17:13:02 GMT -5
I've been playing locking guitars since the eighties. I guess I could say that you have to understand them in order to not fight with them.
If you're going to get one, get a genuine Floyd Rose.
Back in the day, we only had locking nuts as opposed to locking tuners which are quite nice... You're going to have to be real honest with yourself and figure out whether you're looking for tuning stability or wicked EVH style dive bombing.
.02
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Post by modbus on Dec 2, 2020 17:42:35 GMT -5
Hmmm... What I'm looking at has the Ibanez Edge-Zero II tremolo bridge.
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Post by Pinetree on Dec 2, 2020 17:44:54 GMT -5
The Ibanez isn't bad (I have two) as it has a second set of springs to maintain a center, but it's just not a Floyd.
Play it and see if you like it.
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Post by modbus on Dec 2, 2020 18:38:30 GMT -5
It's online. About the only think local I've seen recently with a locking trem is a really, really nice Charvel. It's a fantastic guitar, probably not a good comparison with the Ibanez I'm looking at (RG370).
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2020 18:49:56 GMT -5
If you're going to get one, get a genuine Floyd Rose. I totally agree. I wish Fender would do another USA Floyd Rose Strat, but they've left that to their Charvel division. I find restringing a Floyd guitar pretty easy and insist that Jimi would have used one lol
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Post by walshb 🦒 on Dec 3, 2020 7:29:08 GMT -5
If you've never dealt with a Floyd Rose, here is some info on them (link below). I've had them on two different guitars, both Charvels with the locking nut setup. I've never had a FR with locking tuners, but I would think that might be a better setup, as long as you have a good nut on the guitar or one that you keep lubricated. I've always changed strings one at a time with any floating setup. I'm not a Drop D guy, but if I was going to do that, as Leftee mentioned above, I'd probably just leave the guitar in Drop D tuning, rather than retune all strings. I wouldn't want to have to do that in a live playing setting, that's for sure. And I'm not sure how much it would affect the positioning of the term arm, but I prefer consistency as far as that goes. I don't know what you're looking to spend, but if you like that Charvel, is it a lot more than the Ibanez you're looking at? I'm guessing it has a real FR, and it sounds like maybe you've already played it? Floyd Rose
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Post by Mike the marksman on Dec 3, 2020 8:23:10 GMT -5
Would you want a full-floating setup, or decked/dive only? Most Ibanez guitars with locking trems use a recessed rout that's optimized for floating, and I think most Charvels with Floyds are top mounted, which works better for decking.
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Post by Peegoo 🏁 on Dec 3, 2020 10:21:40 GMT -5
Here's the deal with double-locking vibrato (DLV) guitars: if all you play are Telecasters and Les Pauls, a DLV is a huge pain in the arse.
But if you play a DLV and have learned to appreciate what it offers, it's not a pain in the arse.
It's no different than owning a modern semi-automatic rifle and a flintlock rifle: if you compare the operation of the two rifles, the flintlock requires several additional operations to make it do its thing. Those additional operations are what make owning and shooting the rifle enjoyable, because it's part of the fun. It's part of the price of admission.
DLV guitars do require special attention to detail when setting them up and maintaining them (fiddly string changes, keeping them clean and properly lubed so they don't squeak or prematurely wear, etc.). It's just part of the experience.
Most players really do no actual maintenance on their guitars other than changing strings and maybe wiping off BBQ sauce when it gets on 'em. So when they get their hands on a DLV they go into Full Butthurt Mode and their snowflake starts showing. That's why you read all over the Innerwebz about what a pain these guitars are.
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Post by Leftee on Dec 3, 2020 10:24:29 GMT -5
When it was all I had, I never thought twice about it.
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Post by Peegoo 🏁 on Dec 3, 2020 10:32:00 GMT -5
What about tuning to Drop-D or E-flat? Do you have to make a lot of adjustments to get all the strings to tune and sit right, or is it pretty much just like any other guitar? It's just like any other guitar: drop D or Eb tuning lessens the total tension the strings exert on the neck, so a truss rod adjustment is usually required to achieve optimal relief. Additionally, a tweak of the springs in the rear cavity is necessary to keep the bridge plate parallel to the face of the guitar. Floating vibratos are not something you'd want to re-tune between songs when playing live, because when you tweak one string's tuning, it throws off all the others. If you break a string on a floating vibrato (including a standard Strat set to float), all the other strings go sharp. This is why many Strat players prefer to have their bridges decked, which prevents lifting the bar to increase pitch; it also prevents the strings going sharp when one breaks. The only direction the bar moves is for a dive. There are some floating vibratos that have a little lever you can flip to lock it in place and prevent floating; this can save your bacon when playing live and a string breaks. Examples of this are the Steinberger R Trem, S Trem, and Trans Trem.
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Post by modbus on Dec 3, 2020 16:08:56 GMT -5
Well, you guys have definitely given me lots to think about. Thanks for that. I'll keep you posted.
As for what I'd like to do with it, as cool as a dive bomb is, I don't see myself going Woodstock "Star Spangled Banner" crazy, but some chord vibrato and some little dive to make a solo more interesting after I got used to it. Of course, when I first get one I probably will go Woodstock "Star Spangled Banner" crazy, just for fun.
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Post by Peegoo 🏁 on Dec 3, 2020 19:44:15 GMT -5
modbus, if you enjoy all kinds of guitar tones and effects, then you should have at least one stunt guitar in your stable. I'm not really a wigglestick player, but sometimes it's good to have the capability when the need arises. I have a ton of guitars, but only one with a Floyd. It's a Charvel Model IV (SSH active Jacksons with a Floyd) from 1987; got it in a straight trade for a BC Rich Mockingbird. I comes out of the case every few years for recording stuff that requires it. This one: Yeah, I know...these days, the spandex is long gone and Aqua Net would drive around and get lost on my head looking for something to do. But it's still fun to peel off some 80s stuff once in a while
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Post by Leftee on Dec 3, 2020 19:56:24 GMT -5
Sweet guitar!
I’ve been looking at stunt guitars, lately, as I don’t have one. These threads don’t help.
Or they do.
Whatever
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Post by modbus on Dec 3, 2020 20:39:53 GMT -5
Man, there's something about Charvels... I dig 'em.
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Post by Leftee on Dec 3, 2020 21:34:12 GMT -5
I was just looking at one on the Sweetwater site.
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Post by bluzcat on Dec 3, 2020 21:52:42 GMT -5
My first nice guitar was a Charvel Model 4.
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Post by walshb 🦒 on Dec 4, 2020 9:19:54 GMT -5
My first nice guitar was a Charvel Model 4. I had one also, a great guitar with a super fast neck. I sold it cheap to a young relative that was just learning to play, after the pointy headstock guitars were going out of style (I thought). It had the shark tooth inlays. The Charvel I have now isn't quite as nice, it's a Desolation Skatecaster FR-1 that was a SDOTD on MF, for $250. It does have a Floyd Rose and locking nut, the only "stunt guitar" in my collection. I lightly sanded the back of the neck to get a better feel. No tone knob, but the 3 way switch still provides some variety of tone. Just like this one but without the tone knob and mods Skatecaster SK-1 FR
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Post by funkykikuchiyo on Dec 4, 2020 10:08:20 GMT -5
You can change tuning on a locking guitar, but you're doing a minor setup in order to make it work. You could go back and forth, but not on the fly, and you'd likely get sick of re-tweaking it all the time.
They aren't bad at all if you know what you're getting into. The people who get most annoyed are the ones who buy it because of features other than the locking trem, (pickups, the look, brand recognition, artist endorsements, etc.) and are taken completely by surprise how weird the rest of it is. We semi-regularly get folks in our shop who don't clamp down the nut and complain that it won't stay in tune, and we have to break it to them that it just isn't designed the way they want to use it. This is becoming less common as a lot of the shred guitar makers have been making non-Floyd models for a while now so people aren't unintentionally ending up with Floyds nearly as much. An imperfect analogy (but the best I can come up with at the moment) would be like someone getting a stick shift who has never driven stick entirely by accident. It is a huge passion for some, a nuisance for others.
As mentioned above, once you "get it" the way it floats around, they aren't that cryptic. The cheapest ones out there have posts/knife edges that wear too quick, and sometimes when the floating just fights you like crazy, just changing the springs can make everything snappier, snazzier and cleaner.
Personally, I had one years ago and sold it. It was fun to play with, but the skinny neck was the deal breaker for me. I wouldn't be opposed to owning another one at some point, but I'm not actively seeking one, nor would I ever want it to be my only guitar. I think my favorites that I've played recently have been the Japanese Ibanezes that are kinda/sorta reissues of the early 1990s models.
Ibanez, above a certain entry price point, has great hardware. Genuine Floyd is always good, but I've noticed they're more flutter prone. For some people that's a feature, not a bug. Schaller and Gotoh both make great hardware, though you don't find those OEM all that often. For a short while one of the companies (I think Gotoh) was making them with aluminum base plates and would sometimes lose threads on the intonation screws. I don't think this is anything you need to worry TOO much about, but if you find something used that looks really beat up, take a closer look at the bridge. Quality time with solvents and a tooth brush can save a trashed Strat bridge, but Floyd bridges can be tricky. Chances are that if it looks well cared for it will be fine.
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Post by Leftee on Dec 4, 2020 10:10:53 GMT -5
So...
You’ve mentioned drop D and E flat. I assume you also want standard tuning.
That’s three guitars.
And a backup for each. That ‘s three more.
Buy six guitars. Easy peasy nice and cheesy.
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