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Post by funkykikuchiyo on Dec 9, 2020 9:31:01 GMT -5
It looks like this thread has run its course, but I'll throw in my $0.02. I have an older Weller that looks pretty similar to the Weller WE1010NA. While it is fantastic for putting on and pulling off SMT components on circuit boards, it really doesn't produce enough heat to effectively heat up a guitar pot or a humbucker cover. I've never had any luck with it in that regard. Also, I have a few rolls of lead solder, as well as a roll of lead free solder with a good bit of silver in it. Given metal prices these days, I supposed I could use them as a means to fund and early retirement. Yeah, that would be why I've been so apprehensive on this purchase. I used an older station like that which was wildly inadequate for the "big" components in guitars and amps, and always stuck to my ol' faithful stick - as crude as it was, it did fine for pots. My hope is that the current generation (the ones I've been looking at) are much, much better.
One thing I've learned about these is that a huge part of the market for these is manufacturers who want to set up work stations. That is why the counterfeits are so popular (not convinced the consumer market is big enough for that to be worth while) and why "features" like password protection are so widely touted. It makes sense that they'd want the least amount of tool possible. But, the inadequate heat has been a very common complaint as more and more people are soldering heat sinks and using RoHS, hence the change. A local amp builder gave up on high end irons entirely years ago, buys cheap sticks and throws them out when they're dead - wash, rinse, repeat. I'll only know when Amazon man brings me my box and I have a chance to set it up and try it out (mostly structural repairs in my queue right now, not much electrical), and I will report back.
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Post by funkykikuchiyo on Dec 9, 2020 9:39:37 GMT -5
I'd be willing to bet you'll spend more $$$ on deionized water than you will on replacement tips. Good point. I kinda want to try deionized for cleaning out cracks in spruce, that is my other motivation. I might try distilled for the sponge since I always have it handy, and our tap water is actually hard enough that solder stands get white crusties all over them in not a lot of time. That is 89 cents a gallon, I don't think that will break the bank. I mean, the Hakko is so dang pretty, why mess it up?
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Post by modbus on Dec 9, 2020 10:27:36 GMT -5
I just checked, I have a Weller WD1 I got about 12 years ago and two really old 921ZXs. None of them can heat up a pot completely. Perhaps they just need some thermal compound like Peegoo suggested.
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Post by funkykikuchiyo on Dec 11, 2020 20:20:33 GMT -5
Next update: Still waiting on the Hakko, but I got the used Weller W100P. This is the big brother to my last one that died. 100 watt, regulated temperature by the tip, which is a giant 3/8". It is smaller than Bertha (though technically more powerful), and definitely smaller than Stickzilla. I got it used and the pitting on the tips would make it a tad crude for soldering, but I'm not using it for that anyway. I pulled some frets on a Gibson acoustic today and it worked great! I didn't have to let it sit to recover until after 6-7 frets, while the last one I had to stick it back in every 2-3. The frets came out beautifully. Gibson frets are often in there pretty tight, but it was also a kinda soft fingerboard, so I may have to try it a few times to know for sure, but it is definitely working well. I had less burning than normal. I never got serious burning, but I'd often have slight dark marks that would sand out very quickly, or the nibs would be rather melty. This is a near new guitar with bright white binding, so it would have been immediately noticeable. Maybe it is the same principle at work how larger irons don't burn up pots as fast as little ones because you're on and off faster... who knows. This is definitely a good iron for that big boy stuff. A new one is $55, and would be worth it at that price... though I only paid $15 plus shipping.
Hakko shows up tomorrow, but the tips don't show for another week. I may fiddle with it, but not enough for there to be any good feedback on it.
modbus, what kind of tips have you been using in those? From my experience but also all of the research I've been doing, I'm not convinced that any level of soldering station power will make a needle tip strong enough for the backs of pots. Even the computer guys toss those into the back of a drawer and put in a small chisel tip.
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Post by Peegoo 🏁 on Dec 13, 2020 23:43:08 GMT -5
The cone/needle tip will work, but it's really designed for through-hole PCB construction and repair. For general guitar electronics, I prefer the small 2mm-wide chisel/screwdriver tip. The flats on each side really help to pump heat into larger items like pots, spring claws, etc.
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Post by Peegoo 🏁 on Dec 14, 2020 11:50:41 GMT -5
Here's a pic.
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Post by Pinetree on Dec 14, 2020 18:32:45 GMT -5
That looks like my favorite one as well, although I do switch over to the pencil point for soldering pickup wires.
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Post by funkykikuchiyo on Dec 14, 2020 19:08:53 GMT -5
Yeah, with my prior iron I went back and forth between a 1/8" and a 3/16" bit, and my smallest was a 1/16" chisel which didn't get much use. I don't have a favorite in the new one yet, but it likely won't be the needle. Even for boards, I liked using the 1/8" because it was usually around the same size as a solder pad. Yeah, you can't stab into the hole to wick the solder faster, but usually the wick does a decent enough job that it isn't an issue.
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Post by justin on Dec 20, 2020 21:35:39 GMT -5
Man, I never knew I could get soldering iron envy. My previous iron would would no longer heat and I had a job to do. I quickly snapped this up on Black Friday without really researching anything. I paid $38 and it seems to do the trick very well. I dig the brass wool compared to the old sponge I used to use. I now have temp control and auto standby. So far so good. If this thing ever breaks I’ll look into the more well known brands out there. Did I buy some kind of knock off? TOAUTO Soldering Station,80W Digital Solder Iron Station Kit with 176°F-896°F Temperature, C/F Func, Auto Standby & Sleep, Temperature Lock,5 Extra Solder Tips, Solder Bracket, Solder Sucker,FT-80W www.amazon.com/dp/B082HP4513/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glc_fabc_kGa4FbA3XE27H?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1
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Post by funkykikuchiyo on Dec 21, 2020 9:46:36 GMT -5
justin - I dunno if it is a knockoff (there are those out there), but the complaints I read on products like that were rarely (if ever) about the performance, but usually about reliability. If it works, then it works and you saved a lot of money! If it dies, then you can look forward to getting yourself something new. That actually looks like a great iron in the sub $50 arena.
(Still waiting on my iron. First Amazon order was lost in the mail. I was refunded and reordered this weekend, projected to arrive right before the New Year.)
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Post by justin on Dec 21, 2020 10:22:37 GMT -5
funky - thanks for the comments. This iron has works well through a few sessions so far. I like the digital display where you can watch the iron heat up very quickly. It sure beats waiting several minutes for my old one. We’ll see if it lasts.
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Post by funkykikuchiyo on Feb 13, 2021 10:14:43 GMT -5
I just realized I never updated this!
So, for over a month I've had two irons: the Hakko fx-888d with all the tips, and a Weller W100P with a ginormous tip (I think 3/8").
The Weller is being used for pulling frets. It is definitely superior to my older 60 watt version, and likely superior to what the Hakko would do. I'm getting frets out faster with less burning and less chipping. It takes a while to recover heat so I do have to stop halfway through sometimes, but not as much as with the other one. This makes sense knowing what I know now because the tip is so huge, it probably takes a while for the thermostat to even detect a drop in temperature all the way at the back. I may try a solder gun at some point, but I'm not in any big rush since this is adequate.
The Hakko is great! Changing temperatures is a tad annoying for all the reasons I've mentioned before, but not nearly as bad as I thought it would be. I love the smaller handle compared to my old stick. I pulled/reinstalled a pickup from an LP special where the volume pot is right next to where the wires come in and it is always tricky to get in there. I immediately noticed how much easier it was to sneak in there. The added heat recovery means I'm getting better looking joints and I'm burning wire insulation less - I tended to leave a bit of a crispy edge on the cheaper insulations semi-regularly and that is going away. The heat loss is still noticeable, but not really preventing me from doing good work. Considering that going to the next step up would more than double the cost, I'm fine with how this is. Still, it is worth noting that going for the fancier fx-951 like Peegoo has might provide even more benefit, even if it is just quality of life sorts of things.
I get a tad nervous changing tips because that ceramic bit sticks up out of the handle and seems awfully brittle. I also wish it was easier to change tips - the thing does take some time to cool off, and it takes some time for it to hit a point where I can swap them. I don't need it to be instantaneous, but it would be nice if it was a bit quicker. Sometimes you get things where in one job you might want multiple tips - a push/pull pot is a perfect example. You might want a big one for the grounds, then a bit smaller for the switch lugs, since it'll be 28ga going up to them. With my old one I was able to unplug it and use a pair of pliers to swap them fairly hot (probably not good for the iron, but I did it anyway) and I'm too nervous with this one to do the same.
I absolutely would recommend. At the price ($105, the extra tips as a bundle cost about $30) it seems like a no-brainer; as mentioned before, replacing my old stick would have cost me $95, and a new setup for someone would mean the tips and stand as well and would cost even more. I'm not sure I have any real comments/ideas on the competing Weller mentioned before, except that this one is good enough that I'm not going to have buyer's remorse. Though, I suspect if I got the Weller, I'd be saying the exact same thing to you guys that I have no regrets.
I'm also liking having a separate iron for pulling frets. I actually do more refrets than I do electronic work these days (covid apparently is making people go nuts with refrets?), and I can't imagine going back to a plain ol' electronics iron.
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Post by LTB on Feb 13, 2021 22:03:59 GMT -5
I have an older WES51 that I really like. Heats quickly and does everything I need. If I ever have to buy a new one it will be Weller are Hakko temp controlled. While I am not wild about Purple and Yellow it is about function. I do like the iron stand of he Hakko better than the older style Weller’s. Don’t think you can go wrong with either. I personally prefer a 1/8” chisel tip but that is insignificant
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Post by LTB on Feb 15, 2021 0:59:28 GMT -5
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Post by funkykikuchiyo on Feb 15, 2021 20:35:25 GMT -5
Hmm, if that really only goes as high as 716 degrees F, then I'd avoid it for guitar work. For doing backs of pots I have my Hakko at around 800. I've played around with dropping it lower for jacks, lugs and switches, but the pots need to be up around there.
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Post by LTB on Feb 16, 2021 3:04:36 GMT -5
Hmm, if that really only goes as high as 716 degrees F, then I'd avoid it for guitar work. For doing backs of pots I have my Hakko at around 800. I've played around with dropping it lower for jacks, lugs and switches, but the pots need to be up around there. Good point funky, my Weller WES 51 doesn’t display temp but I always set it to max for soldering to backs if pots. I use to use an 85watt iron used in stained glass frames and it is very important to have iron hot enough to quickly melt solder and get off quickly so as not to over heat the pot
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Post by funkykikuchiyo on Feb 18, 2021 10:23:32 GMT -5
From the research I did, it seems the newest generation of irons is better at higher temperatures all around. I had stayed away from stations for a long time because I remember working in assembly in a non-music manufacturing job and not liking that iron as much as my stick which seemed really powerful in comparison. The reason for the onset of all the higher temperature stuff seems to mostly be the RoHS which melts higher and doesn't flow as nicely even at that. My rough guess would be that a newer station would seem hotter compared to your old one, but I can only guess. The other factor is that a lot of computer work will involve high mass components on ground planes that are also very delicate and the temperature needs to be very steady - you can't just overshoot it with a stained glass stick like you would with guitar work. That seems to be the big appeal of one like what Peegoo has, the fx-951 where the heating element and the tip are one unit.
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Post by Leftee on Feb 18, 2021 12:00:30 GMT -5
Why do I have soldering iron GAS?
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Post by Pinetree on Feb 18, 2021 14:55:40 GMT -5
Having the right tools for the job makes life easier.
The Hakko heats up quickly, and the interchangeable tips are great for a variety of situations.
No regrets here.. money well spent.
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Post by funkykikuchiyo on Feb 19, 2021 10:18:15 GMT -5
Why do I have soldering iron GAS? If I didn't know the acronym GAS, I'd be inclined to think you were talking about what happens when a lactose intolerant has a big latte.
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Post by Leftee on Feb 19, 2021 10:20:26 GMT -5
Why do I have soldering iron GAS? If I didn't know the acronym GAS, I'd be inclined to think you were talking about what happens when a lactose intolerant has a big latte. Gear Acquisition Syndrome
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Post by LTB on Feb 27, 2021 2:16:35 GMT -5
If I didn't know the acronym GAS, I'd be inclined to think you were talking about what happens when a lactose intolerant has a big latte. Gear Acquisition Syndrome This place is hilarious! 😂 It is gear so GAS fits 😉 After reading all this it did give me GAS for new soldering station but mine does the job so I will wait until it gives me problems
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Post by Leftee on Feb 27, 2021 8:41:35 GMT -5
Gear Acquisition Syndrome This place is hilarious! 😂 It is gear so GAS fits 😉 After reading all this it did give me GAS for new soldering station but mine does the job so I will wait until it gives me problems Same here. I have a pretty basic Weller station and it’s absolutely fine.
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Post by Peegoo 🏁 on Mar 2, 2021 9:26:45 GMT -5
I also wish it was easier to change tips - the thing does take some time to cool off, and it takes some time for it to hit a point where I can swap them. FunkyK, your Hakko should've come with a little silicone pad that resembles a floppy ping-pong paddle. This is a sort of 'pot holder' included in the kit that you use to grip the hot tip to remove it. Keeps you from roasting your fingies, and allows you to keep working without waiting for things to cool off.
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Post by funkykikuchiyo on Mar 3, 2021 10:29:46 GMT -5
Nah, I didn't get anything like that. Mine is the cheaper version with a different style tip. The Weller competitor has what they call an easy change, and it just means the little collar is some sort of heat resistant material. I can always use pliers if need be, I guess, and just be careful.
Maybe just another data point for anyone considering different options.
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