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Post by windmill on Dec 25, 2020 19:36:24 GMT -5
Had a friend point out that an older guitar could do with a refret.
I had just assumed it had small style "vintage" frets.
What are the indicators to you that a guitar needs refretting ?
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Post by Pinetree on Dec 25, 2020 20:45:08 GMT -5
I've only ever had one guitar refretted, and that was indeed the small vintage style frets that I wanted to do away with.
I also have a 40-some year old Les Paul that's just about worn out, but I just don't play it all that often so it's not an issue.
If it's fretting out or buzzing or unplayable then yeah, it needs refretted... otherwise I wouldn't worry about it.
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Post by Auf Kiltre on Dec 25, 2020 22:44:31 GMT -5
A competent guitar tech could evaluate if a fret leveling could be done. I have one guitar that a really good tech rescued. He told me there wasn't another leveling left in it, but it held its own for many years afterward. Its actually the only guitar I've ever had that's been refretted.
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Post by funkykikuchiyo on Dec 26, 2020 13:40:55 GMT -5
Flat frets do the same thing flat saddles will do, and make the tone a little less distinct, buzzy or flabby. It can hurt intonation. It can compromise the setup, not letting you get the action down there, sometimes even to a reasonable height. On one hand, if you like how it sounds and plays, then the ol' adage applies, "if it ain' broke..." But on the other hand, frets can wear so slowly that it is a bit like your tires or brakes wearing out. You don't notice it until it is actually fixed. I see this all the time with '70s Gibsons. Someone has decades of play on it and is barely aware there is a problem (they were too low and flat on day one), and the "aha!" moment when they get it back to play it is pretty intense.
As far as fret dress and refret go, the two things that will turn a fret dress into a refret are a lack of fret material to work with (or have anything left after the process) and the potential need for correction on the fingerboard. Once frets are pulled the fingerboard can be sanded straight again taking out twists, dips and humps. You can compensate for these problems in a fret dress, but only to a degree.
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sirWheat
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Post by sirWheat on Dec 26, 2020 14:22:43 GMT -5
I played my first acoustic to death. It had never been to a tech, had only ever needed a rare truss-rod tweak. It had some serious divots in the open chord area. It needed to be be tuned two different ways depending on where on the neck I was playing. By the time a guitar gets to that point it, and you, have achieved a "signature" sound.
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Post by windmill on Dec 26, 2020 16:23:01 GMT -5
Thanks for the replies
The action on the guitar is good.
I have been playing fingerstyle chord melody jazz standards on the guitar for the last couple of months and have found it more difficult than expected.
The main problem is muffling chords because my fingers land on top of the fretwire, due to it being so small. Also "overshooting" individual notes, due to my fingers "gliding" over the target fret by not noticing the fretwire due its small size.
The problem was brought into focus recently when I tried out a new guitar recently and it was a delight, I didnt want to put it down.
This led to comparing it with my current guitar and why it didnt have the same feel.
The comment about frets makes me think that the higher frets "lead" the fingers to slide behind the fret wire, and then allow downward pressure, which would reduce the muffled notes in the chords.
Also being able to feel the frets with the fingers when playing individual notes.
Unfortunately the new guitar I tried is expensive.
Perhaps I may be better off getting the old guitar refretted.
Any thoughts ?
Thanks
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Post by Pinetree on Dec 26, 2020 16:25:58 GMT -5
Send the old one off to be refretted.
Then buy the new one to play while you're waiting for it to be done.
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Post by Opie on Dec 26, 2020 17:11:04 GMT -5
Send the old one off to be refretted. Then buy the new one to play while you're waiting for it to be done. That's brilliant! I'm sure ONE of my guitars could use a refret.
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Post by reverendrob on Dec 26, 2020 18:19:22 GMT -5
I heard the old canard about stainless strings killing frets.
I must be the abominable breaker of yet another rule, but even the guitars I've abused for 20 years ...don't need one.
You can tell the wear patterns on the ones I bought new (because it ain't in the normal cowboy chord positions) - it was most evident to me when I took my Jazzmaster to pieces for a refin of the body a year or so ago that I'd had since new for a decade or so.
The cowboy chord frets are brand new, the 7-12 range looks like it was hit by a uniform sandblaster but there's no issues with fretting out or intonation. Others I have are similar.
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pdf64
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Post by pdf64 on Dec 27, 2020 9:20:06 GMT -5
I find that the ‘frets too low’ thing makes the guitar hard to play. Kinda like stringing it with super heavy 15s, pushing the strings around becomes far harder if my fingertips are dragging on the fretboard, with the guitar seeming to be resisting my efforts. My 1978 LP Pro DeLuxe was transformed by a refret; not only were worn frets making it hard, their width and lack of a crown sent the note slightly out of tune.
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Post by guildx700 on Dec 27, 2020 21:35:45 GMT -5
My 1939 Gibson L50 has original frets and although they show heavy wear it presents no issues for me playing it cleanly. I think if they wear from use as you use it you are adjusting to it over time anyhow. Now if it dead notes out...well it's time for some fret work then.
My 1977 Explorer is a "fretless wonder" and it plays amazingly well. But...then again, I've owned it since new so I'm used to it.
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Post by funkykikuchiyo on Dec 28, 2020 9:28:06 GMT -5
Everyone has a different comfort zone for size of frets. I had one customer with his years-ago-refretted Strat get a much needed fret dress, and his medium-jumbo frets became a bit lower, but still playable for most people. For him it was awful and he had it re-refretted a month later. I put in the exact same frets and he loved it again. Some people can't stand large frets because they always pull the strings out of tune, or they have problems with the "railroad track" phenomenon. I had another customer who had just bought a CS Tele that was vintage style in every way except ginormous frets. He had such a hard time with the tuning he paid me to refret it with vintage frets. I tried talking him into a more medium-ish size, but he wanted the vintage frets and he sounded a lot better after. I'd say both of these players are well above average players. My point is that it seems like you've figured out what your comfort zone is for fret wire size, and there likely is no right or wrong... it is just what is working for you. If your guitar has fret wear and needs some fingerboard leveling as well, then I suspect after a good refret you'll love that guitar so much you'll wish you did it long ago. Personally, I play so many different guitars (professional repair person) that I've gotten used to adapting to different feels of different instruments and stuff like that is less likely to bug me. My favorite fret wire sizes are the ones right smack dab in the middle. Stew Mac has a good selection of sizes, and the 152 and 154 are both great. The 155 is also interesting - vintage width, but as high a 6105. I get frustrated when I see guitar makers (looking at you, Fender) only use either vintage size or ginormous shredder frets. That excludes an awful lot of people's tastes.
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sirWheat
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Post by sirWheat on Dec 28, 2020 10:23:59 GMT -5
I could care less about fret size, which is odd given that I tend to grip the neck kinda hard. This and the whole "fast fretboard" thing leave me baffled. To each his or her own.
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Post by ninworks on Dec 28, 2020 14:21:10 GMT -5
I've had many guitars re-fretted over the years. I started with my 63 SG Custom Fretless Wonder. It had small frets to begin with but after me growing up and abusing it for many years it got unplayable. I bend and vibrato strings a lot and it got to the point where my fingers would slip off the strings when bending. I had it re-fretted with the stock size fret wire so as not to detract from it's vintage vibe. Now I wish I had put bigger frets on it. After I had my SG re-fretted I almost cried when I played it. It felt so good to be able to wail on my old friend again and have it play better than it had in decades. It sat in the case for 10 years because I couldn't play it anymore. It was too awesome a guitar not to be played.
I've had 6 guitars re-fretted. Mostly because of either twisted necks or wanting bigger frets on my players. I would do it again in a heartbeat if the need arose.
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Post by Mikeyguitar on Dec 29, 2020 19:29:38 GMT -5
I've thought about having my 1978 LP Custom refretted. The nickname for the Custom is "the fretless wonder", as the frets are low and flat. But I don't really play it enough that it's really an issue - it still plays well.
The BIG thing about a re-fret for a Custom is the bound fret board - to do a re-fret, you may have to remove the nibs, which would likely reduce the value. To have it done without removing the nibs can be quite an expensive endeavor.
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Post by LTB on Dec 31, 2020 15:56:50 GMT -5
I had a first year Gibson ES-137 Classic. It was a beautiful guitar and sounded very nice but the tall flat top frets were hard for me to deal with. Notes went sharp unless I put.012 strings on it then they wore me out playing it. I traded it in but in retrospect I wished I had thought to just have a fret dress and kept it 😏
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Post by windmill on Jul 28, 2021 17:58:39 GMT -5
Send the old one off to be refretted. Then buy the new one to play while you're waiting for it to be done. Just completed the first part of this plan.
Now to find someone to do the refret.
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Post by Pinetree on Jul 28, 2021 18:31:24 GMT -5
Can't help you there since you're not in the States, but congrats on setting the plan in motion.
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Post by pcalu on Aug 9, 2021 20:22:28 GMT -5
Most Luther's who are worth their salt will try to talk you out of doing a total re-fret, because 90% of the time it's not warranted.
After learning how to fret dress.. I understood why.
Replace the damaged or worn fret(s) and dress the the guitar. One should note: Guitars that don't have frets that are dressed.. that speeds up of the wear and tear.
The difference between a high end guitar and a off the shelf... usually is in the set up (i.e. the fret dress, crowning etc)
I play Fenders and every MM Fender I have played there no fret work done on them. Same goes for the the lower tier American.
That said, Save your money .... take the time to learn fret dressing and setting up a guitar ...
IMHO There is little difference in construction materials between a the upper end of the MM, the American Professional line or top of the line flag ship Ultra line when it comes to electronics. The difference is in the fret job and set up.
If the truss rod works... after a fret dress you can make 99% of guitars play like butter.
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Post by Leftee on Aug 10, 2021 16:24:50 GMT -5
Most Luther's who are worth their salt will try to talk you out of doing a total re-fret, because 90% of the time it's not warranted. After learning how to fret dress.. I understood why. Replace the damaged or worn fret(s) and dress the the guitar. One should note: Guitars that don't have frets that are dressed.. that speeds up of the wear and tear. The difference between a high end guitar and a off the shelf... usually is in the set up (i.e. the fret dress, crowning etc) I play Fenders and every MM Fender I have played there no fret work done on them. Same goes for the the lower tier American. That said, Save your money .... take the time to learn fret dressing and setting up a guitar ... IMHO There is little difference in construction materials between a the upper end of the MM, the American Professional line or top of the line flag ship Ultra line when it comes to electronics. The difference is in the fret job and set up. If the truss rod works... after a fret dress you can make 99% of guitars play like butter. I agree! Electronics are largely a matter of taste. But get the nut and frets right and you have a great player!
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gdw3
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Post by gdw3 on Aug 18, 2021 15:07:11 GMT -5
If you're doing a complete re-fret, consider stainless steel frets. I had them put in my Strat a couple months ago. Wow! So smooth! I was over-bending at first, because it was that much easier. And they never wear out. Only fret job I'll have to do on that guitar. Now, they are a little more expensive, and slightly brighter than nickel frets, but it's fairly easy to adjust to, and it's SO worth it because of how much easier and smoother the guitar plays. And this was already a good guitar! Now it feels like a custom axe.
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Post by windmill on Aug 19, 2021 6:07:38 GMT -5
Thanks for the advice but I don't anticipate that I would wear out new nickel frets.The luthier did agree that it did need refretting. I dropped it off yesterday and it will take 4-6 weeks to be done due to the covid restrictions affecting the bloke who is doing it. I have taken Pinetree's advice and brought another guitar to play while it is getting done !
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sirWheat
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Post by sirWheat on Aug 19, 2021 17:33:15 GMT -5
And...
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Post by funkykikuchiyo on Aug 19, 2021 19:46:18 GMT -5
Yeah, when I get someone asking me about stainless, my first question is usually how old the guitar is. Very often it turns out it took a couple decades to wear down the set of frets. Once you notice the wear it seems like it happened overnight, but it didn't. It is a godsend for some people, but not necessary for many. It is like a giant pickup truck... incredibly useful for certain things, but lots of people convince themselves they need it when they don't.
4-6 weeks is pretty good! I'm not going to tell you how backed up I am on a refret.... :/
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Post by Leftee on Aug 19, 2021 21:48:47 GMT -5
I love SS frets. I have stopped ordering necks with them, though. Too hard on my hands to level/crown/polish.
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matryx81
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Post by matryx81 on Aug 20, 2021 6:39:31 GMT -5
If you're doing a complete re-fret, consider stainless steel frets. At this point in my life, this is what I would do (and I have a 1980 Jazz Bass that may eventually have to have this done).
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Post by reverendrob on Aug 21, 2021 2:32:28 GMT -5
Yea, I'd go stainless in a heartbeat if I HAD to get a refret.
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Post by Auf Kiltre on Aug 22, 2021 12:44:55 GMT -5
My first and only refret thus far has been stainless steel and while I really like them doubt I'll go out of my way to get them moving forward. Same reason I won't spring for a metal roof when I'm 75. 😄
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2021 15:46:30 GMT -5
It actually affects my playing in knowing I'm wearing down the tires. I have one guitar that needs a refret after numerous levels/dressings, but leaving for now, and actually playing it less to 'save' it, even though it's still great. Had another guitar that I did refret, and it really took a bit for me to get used to it again, like a shock to the guitar's system.
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gdw3
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Post by gdw3 on Aug 26, 2021 18:06:01 GMT -5
My Strat is a 2005, so I guess it took about 15 years to wear the frets out. But I will say that because of the SS re-fret (and a couple of other improvements), I play it a lot more often than I did before! Hope to have it another 15 years at least!
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