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Post by justin on Dec 26, 2020 21:37:58 GMT -5
Sooo I’ve had this Les Paul Standard that I’ve brought up here a little bit lately. I bought in new in 2000. I’m trying to revamp it to make me like it again because I’m very unlikely to ever sell it. It’s too sentimental to me... It’s currently set up for 23 year-old me and my preferences have shifted.
Out of pure curiosity, who remembers the state of Gibson Guitars around 2000? It seems they are regularly in some kind of drama which I did not pay attention to back then. My LP is fine and plays very well, but if you look closely you can see some filler around some of the inlays and that still bugs me 20 years later. Otherwise it rings out nicely and is pretty lightweight for what it is (I’ve seen the weight relief holes at an airport security x-ray once before).
Anyway, was this a darker period for Gibson? Just wonderin’...
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Post by Pinetree on Dec 26, 2020 22:35:35 GMT -5
Well first of all, I can't answer your question, but I'll just say this as the owner of a several Les Pauls... If it sounds and plays good, then it is good.
Most keyboard warriors would decry my Norlin-era 13 1/2 lb '79 Les Paul Custom as a less than desirable guitar, and I'm here to tell you that it is a rock and roll machine.
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Post by Peegoo 🏁 on Dec 27, 2020 7:20:06 GMT -5
Well first of all, I can't answer your question, but I'll just say this as the owner of a several Les Pauls... If it sounds and plays good, then it is good. Most keyboard warriors would decry my Norlin-era 13 1/2 lb '79 Les Paul Custom as a less than desirable guitar, and I'm here to tell you that it is a rock and roll machine. ^^This^^ Like Pinetree, I have several Les Pauls. I have a few Juniors, a V, an SG, a Special, a 135 and a 339. They are all superb guitars. I am also the happy owner of no-name guitars I've found at garage sales for pennies that are really fine rock and roll beasts after a little TLC. Has Gibson turned out bad guitars? Sure, just like Fender and everybody else has; it's inevitable in the realm of mass production. But there are no periods where a maker made amazing stuff, then consistently made junk, and then got their act together again. In my experience, most people that complain about Gibsons do so because they're not a $300 guitar. Same goes for PRS. It's a natural coping mechanism to dislike something one thinks they can never afford or for which they cannot rationally justify the expense. Case in point: for years, many people lamented the sale of Fender to CBS, claiming the departure of Leo meant the demise of Fender's long-running cachet. But if you've been watching the guitar market lately, you'll know all these "post CBS junk" Fenders are now a very hot item. Nobody's buying them for firewood. Unlike fine wine, guitars don't magically improve with age if left locked in a case in a dark place for 45 years. Most players that have been around the block more than a few times reach a point where it comes down to aesthetics, ergonomics, and tone, rather than a matter of junk vs. treasure. Play enough gigs with a good guitar and you come to love the thing--no matter what it costs. A good guitar is simply a good guitar.
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Post by budg on Dec 27, 2020 7:45:57 GMT -5
Anytime production goes up there is a potential for more flaws to get through. Some of those”dark” periods have produced some great guitars at bargain prices. I have a Martin D35 that was from their bad era apparently that is one of the best Martins I have laid my hands on oversized rosewood bridge plate and all. Got it at a very good price . I don’t see Gibson’s in the 2000s as any better or worse than they are today even though some people will say that this is the “golden era” for guitar making.
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Post by funkykikuchiyo on Dec 27, 2020 10:19:22 GMT -5
2000 is fine. When Gibson messes things up, they're usually the things you'd have spotted by now. This was also before they were raided, so before they started doing some odd wood substitutions. The truly weird stuff came after that... not just the woods, but some other really odd things. My favorite is a guitar showing up and the pickups aren't even soldered in, raw wires just dangling in the cavity. Plug it in and nothing. It apparently got put together and shipped out with no one testing it. I've seen this more than once. If you've been playing it and have been doing setups for the last 20 years on it, you'd have stumbled on any of the problems by now. Bridges occasionally being in the wrong place is the only thing I can think of that might not have been picked up on just yet.
The drama around 2000-2005ish as I recall was largely behind the scenes and only known in-industry, and it was largely in terms of sales, marketing and dealer relations. I remember a time when Henry decided to suspend all dealerships until he could personally evaluate each one, which meant a solid 6-7 months with no mom & pops getting their orders shipped because... well, Henry. They also ticked off a bunch of people by having sales reps walk in, count the number of wall hangers and saying "to get our product, you need our stuff hanging on XX% of these hangers", and doing so usually meant buying up those wonky Epiphone models that no one wanted (I remember a weird textured black one with an "X" routed through it for some reason). Gibson and Epiphone produced crap, but the flagship models were often allowed to carry on unaffected, the LP Standard being a good example of that. If I was shopping for a used Les Paul, I'd consider 2000 a pretty good year to consider, though would want to try before buying like anything else... you've tried, so you're good!
I remember when at some point after 2010 (I don't remember when it was) the general public started to realize how bat-snot crazy Henry was and that Gibson was *gasp* having issues, everyone thought it was a new problem! It was a bit of a relief for a lot of sales people when it was public, so when someone would walk into the showroom and ask "dude, where are all the Les Pauls?!" they could give the honest answer instead of talking around it.
The gaps around the inlays are typical. I don't think there is a Gibson era or price point where this changes. If the gap is open it can be filled with CA glue and scraped back. If the inlay is loose, that can be fixed as well. After that, treating the fingerboard makes it a little less of an eye sore as it darkens the wood.
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Post by justin on Dec 27, 2020 12:46:23 GMT -5
All good replies, Thank you. As I said, mine is fine and works for me. I was just curious of Gibson’s reputation around this time period. This is out of pure curiosity and I enjoy the folklore. I love the behind the scenes stuff, etc. ...the kind of stuff you might talk about with a few rounds of beers. But none of the dudes I see frequently (pre-2020) are into guitars, let alone the industries behind the products.
I purchased mine at Centre City Music in Downtown San Diego. It was a Gibson-specific dealer and I always thought it was interesting to have a store Downtown, as that seemed expensive to operate with most stores being in some kind of strip mall in the suburbs. The guy’s name was Saul and after searching it seems he was pretty well-known in the Gibson community and had especially good prices. Apparently he had problems with Gibson around that late 2000’s/early 2010’s timeframe, which go along with what funkykikuchiyo was saying. I recall him pulling me aside and telling me my girlfriend was a “good one”, and to hang on to her, etc. We did not stay together and life is great. I picked my guitar from a few hanging on the wall and one he unboxed for me. Guitar shopping used to be an adventure. I fondly remember spec’ing out my G&L around 2002 at Buffalo Brothers (also out of business) and waiting weeks, if not months to come back and pick it up. That was my last in-person guitar purchase. It’s been all online since.
Keep the stories coming if you got ‘em!
Funkykikuchiyo - I’ve got some Fret Doctor on the way as I hear that’s good stuff. I’m tempted to try the linseed oil trick and let it oxidize/darken, but that must not smell very good...
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Post by Seldom Seen on Dec 27, 2020 14:11:53 GMT -5
My R0 LP, ‘61RI SG, and ES335 Dot are all 2003-05 and fantastic instruments. I’ve owned several Gibsons, starting from mid seventies models, and these three are the best of the bunch.
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Post by Peegoo 🏁 on Dec 27, 2020 14:39:27 GMT -5
I’m tempted to try the linseed oil trick and let it oxidize/darken, but that must not smell very good... Linseed oil doesn't smell bad at all. It smells like...linseed oil. Make sure to get the boiled type (paint department at the local DIY store); unboiled linseed oil stays oily and can make a mess.
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Post by Mfitz804 on Dec 27, 2020 15:33:52 GMT -5
I had a Norlin era Les Paul that everyone said was supposed to be garbage and that thing absolutely sang. Sold it for a huge profit and still regret it.
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Post by Leftee on Dec 27, 2020 16:00:44 GMT -5
I had a Norlin era Les Paul that everyone said was supposed to be garbage and that thing absolutely sang. Sold it for a huge profit and still regret it. You need a Les Paul. Right guys?
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sirWheat
Wholenote
For a better future, play Stevie Wonder for your children.
Posts: 314
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Post by sirWheat on Dec 27, 2020 16:11:51 GMT -5
I got one. Doesn't everyone?
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Post by Leftee on Dec 27, 2020 17:07:41 GMT -5
I’ve got two. No... three.
Everyone needs at least one. There are so many nice choices these days too.
It’s hard not to have one.
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Post by Mfitz804 on Dec 27, 2020 17:52:07 GMT -5
If I ever start playing again...
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Post by Leftee on Dec 27, 2020 18:13:07 GMT -5
Now is the time to buy.
Just sayin’
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Post by Leftee on Dec 27, 2020 20:13:47 GMT -5
After this year you deserve a Les Paul.
You spun up this place... just in time for a Pandemic. Then your family got the vile virus. We know you nursed your wife back to health. She probably owes you her life.
You single-handily keep the office running. You, in your sweatpants and video shirt and tie.
It’s been quite a year.
You DESERVE a Les Paul!
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Post by justin on Dec 27, 2020 20:19:57 GMT -5
I remember a weird textured black one with an "X" routed through it for some reason I just Googled this. The 2002 "pierced" SG. That's god awful.
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Post by guildx700 on Dec 27, 2020 21:32:02 GMT -5
I don't subscribe to any "bad era" Gibsons...from what I've seen over the last 4+ decades is there are gems and duds in every model year.
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Post by reverendrob on Dec 28, 2020 14:34:40 GMT -5
I would not trade my robotuner-equipped LPs for Peter Green's '59 if I couldn't sell the latter.
Pound for pound, they are EXACTLY what I have wanted in LPs bar none and I have played a metric ton.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2020 13:10:19 GMT -5
I agree with the 'if sounds good, is good', same applies for Fender. Both companies are restricted by an iconic design that constrains them. They try to 'improve', but the original designs are pretty good. In my opinion, Fender has more wiggle room to be inventive, and never liked the Gibson headstock nut/angle design for tuning stability. One thing to be suspicious of is a very clean vintage. It either was never played, sucked or is fake lol.
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Post by Mikeyguitar on Dec 29, 2020 19:10:30 GMT -5
Didn't Gibson introduce a double-cutaway LP around 2000? I think they also had the Night Hawk model selling around that time. I had a Night Hawk. It was a beautiful guitar, and I thought it would be my go-to guitar as it was smaller, stylish, and Gibson. But no. I never really warmed up to it and I sold it to a friend. I don't miss it, save for the way it looked.
I also have a Norlin era LP Custom (1978 - looks like Piney's). Mine is lighter at about 9.5 lbs. It's a great guitar as far as I'm concerned. I have no idea how it compares in tone with other LP's, as I was never really after that LP/Marshall tone to begin with.
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Post by Leftee on Dec 29, 2020 19:56:43 GMT -5
Yes, there was a double-cut back then, IIRC.
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Post by guildx700 on Dec 29, 2020 20:04:50 GMT -5
Didn't Gibson introduce a double-cutaway LP around 2000? I think they also had the Night Hawk model selling around that time. I had a Night Hawk. It was a beautiful guitar, and I thought it would be my go-to guitar as it was smaller, stylish, and Gibson. But no. I never really warmed up to it and I sold it to a friend. I don't miss it, save for the way it looked. I also have a Norlin era LP Custom (1978 - looks like Piney's). Mine is lighter at about 9.5 lbs. It's a great guitar as far as I'm concerned. I have no idea how it compares in tone with other LP's, as I was never really after that LP/Marshall tone to begin with. Nighthawk was an interesting offering but it never really did anything for me.
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Post by larryguitar54 on Dec 29, 2020 22:07:28 GMT -5
I think Gibson's Bozeman acoustic output circa 2000 is as good as any they produced. My J45 is not going anywhere.
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professor
Wholenote
"Now I want you to go in that bag and find my wallet." / KMMFA
Posts: 609
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Post by professor on Dec 30, 2020 10:17:44 GMT -5
I have a 2001 Gibson SG "Classic" (p90s) that is is one of my two favorite guitars. Impeccable fit and finish, great binding, zero flaws. I also have a much simpler 1999 SG Junior that is also fine, AND a 2000 LP Deluxe that, though completely abused by the previous owner, is also well made. No inlay filler I can see, and if it's not a one piece body I can't tell. I have two early 90s LPs (Standard and Studio) and a 2012 LP Deluxe, which is the only one bought brand new. Nothing wrong with any of them, except for some odd filler where the binding meets the neck on the 2012 Deluxe. Having bought used, the one thing that seems to have been off is that they all had something wrong with their set ups, which was easily fixed in all cases.
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Post by modbus on Dec 30, 2020 10:34:45 GMT -5
Most keyboard warriors would decry my Norlin-era 13 1/2 lb '79 Les Paul Custom as a less than desirable guitar, and I'm here to tell you that it is a rock and roll machine.
I think Trogly's Guitar Show on YouTube has singlehandedly greatly increased the desirability of late Norlin Era Gibsons by showing time and time again how nice they can be.
What finish does yours have?
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Post by Pinetree on Dec 30, 2020 12:52:00 GMT -5
Mine's Tobacco Sunburst.
Re: Trogly's. That guy does a good job, but to this day I still think Silverburst is hideous.
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sirWheat
Wholenote
For a better future, play Stevie Wonder for your children.
Posts: 314
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Post by sirWheat on Dec 30, 2020 14:16:29 GMT -5
Ditto. It might (might) be better looking than Antigua.
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Post by Mikeyguitar on Dec 31, 2020 14:27:01 GMT -5
Mine's Tobacco Sunburst. Re: Trogly's. That guy does a good job, but to this day I still think Silverburst is hideous. Piney - for some reason I thought yours was a natural finish (like mine). Not sure why I thought that.
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