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Post by ninworks on Jan 5, 2021 7:54:06 GMT -5
Since I have such issues with my large banana-sized fingers I am seriously considering putting a wider neck on my 72 Strat. It is highly modified so keeping it vintage is not a consideration. I want to make a player I am comfortable with. These guys, www.biglouguitar.com/product/big-lou-wide-necks/ have a couple different nut widths and fingerboard radiuses (radii?) make a few different options and the prices are pretty reasonable. If I don't like it I can always go back to the original neck. I have never played an electric guitar with a 1-7/8" width at the nut. I think it could be an advantage for me but it may really mess me up when playing my Gibsons, which I love. I have no idea what kind of neck radius I should choose, or width for that matter. I would like to have at least one guitar where I can play cowboy chords or open string stuff down low without having to have surgical precision with my finger placement. Even with that there are some things I cannot play due to my big ol' fingers.
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Post by funkykikuchiyo on Jan 5, 2021 10:17:09 GMT -5
Imagine a 12-string acoustic strung as a 6-string, that's your 1 7/8". It is immediately noticeable as a giant, wide neck. Some very old Martins pre-dating the "orchestra" models use this nut width (the 1 3/4" neck was considered "skinny" when introduced in the early '30s!). 1 3/4" is used on older (pre-war mostly) Martins and many Taylors. 1 3/4" pops up sometimes on classier archtops, popularized by Benedetto. If I remember right, the big body Eastman archtops are all 1 3/4". Newer Martins and Gibsons are 1 11/16", as well as a whole slew of mid-priced import instruments. Fenders come in a variety of sizes, most vintage Fenders being 1 5/8", most modern Fenders being 1.65" which splits the difference between the vintage Fender (1 5/8" = 1.625") and Gibson (1 11/16" = 1.6875").
Vintage Fenders (and modern too, I guess) also often have the problem of the fingerboard edges/frets being rolled in too far, further reducing the amount of playable area. On top of that, some are skinnier than the 1 5/8" due to sheer tolerances and the way fret ends can be aggressively filed before finishing. The 1 7/8" might be right for you, but I think any of these choices would be an improvement if you want more string separation.
Hopefully that helps. If you own a set of calipers, I'd recommend measuring all of your guitars - that way you associate the numbers with how they feel.
Regarding radius, I've found that bucking convention and a wide neck with a small/round radius or a skinny neck with a very flat radius always feels funny. In other words, the wider the neck, the flatter (higher radius) I generally want the fingerboard. I'd credit this to that the wider the neck, the more my thumb plants lower on the back of the neck, flattening out my fingers, while a narrower neck makes me thumb wrap which makes a round radius more comfortable. YMMV.
I'm a little confused on the heels on those. It doesn't say one way or another if they're direct replacements (comes close, but doesn't commit) and on, say, a Warmoth neck that is 1 7/8" there are fingerboard over hangs on the side of the neck around the heel.
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Post by Leftee on Jan 5, 2021 10:26:42 GMT -5
Years ago I built a Warmoth Strat with a 1.75” nut width and the 59 neck profile. It is still one of my most comfortable builds to play.
My standard nut width is 1-11/16”.
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Post by ninworks on Jan 5, 2021 11:04:09 GMT -5
Vintage Fenders (and modern too, I guess) also often have the problem of the fingerboard edges/frets being rolled in too far, further reducing the amount of playable area. On top of that, some are skinnier than the 1 5/8" due to sheer tolerances and the way fret ends can be aggressively filed before finishing. The 1 7/8" might be right for you, but I think any of these choices would be an improvement if you want more string separation. Hopefully that helps. If you own a set of calipers, I'd recommend measuring all of your guitars - that way you associate the numbers with how they feel. Regarding radius, I've found that bucking convention and a wide neck with a small/round radius or a skinny neck with a very flat radius always feels funny. In other words, the wider the neck, the flatter (higher radius) I generally want the fingerboard. I'd credit this to that the wider the neck, the more my thumb plants lower on the back of the neck, flattening out my fingers, while a narrower neck makes me thumb wrap which makes a round radius more comfortable. YMMV. I'm a little confused on the heels on those. It doesn't say one way or another if they're direct replacements (comes close, but doesn't commit) and on, say, a Warmoth neck that is 1 7/8" there are fingerboard over hangs on the side of the neck around the heel. I had the stock Strat neck refretted with big frets a number of years ago by a tech that is very familiar with my finger size issues. I've had a lot of my guitars in his shop and he's a friend of mine. He gave me as much fret surface as was possible as well as slotting the nut as close to the edges of the fingerboard as he could get without me falling off to get me as much spread as is possible. Right after he did the refret the high E was too close and he cut me another nut to bring it in a little. I measured all the guitars I have out on stands right now. My 63 SG Custom is 1.690", my 60's Tribute Gold Top LP is 1.700", and my Strat is 1.610". I play the Gold Top the most and the wider width is one of the reasons. I also have a 1984 Fender Flame Ultra that has a 1.710" wide nut. My tech refretted that one as well and ran the frets out over the neck binding to get me some more width with the string spacing. I really like the neck on that one after he did the refret. I just don't like the floating tremolo tailpiece much. It's too temperamental with tuning. It also requires truss rod adjustment whenever the humidity changes a little. It's not very stable but when it's right I really like it. The heels are supposed to be a direct replacement. It does state that it may require some sanding due to varying neck pocket sizes on different guitars so it sounds like they give you a little extra for worst case situations. When I refinished my Strat I put lots of coats of paint in the neck pocket to tighten it up because it was very loose. Thanks for the recommendation on the fingerboard radius. What you said makes sense.
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Post by ninworks on Jan 13, 2021 6:50:05 GMT -5
Regarding radius, I've found that bucking convention and a wide neck with a small/round radius or a skinny neck with a very flat radius always feels funny. In other words, the wider the neck, the flatter (higher radius) I generally want the fingerboard. I'd credit this to that the wider the neck, the more my thumb plants lower on the back of the neck, flattening out my fingers, while a narrower neck makes me thumb wrap which makes a round radius more comfortable. YMMV. I also looked at Warmoth wide necks. Quite a bit more expensive but a lot more options. I can get one with a 24-3/4" scale, with 22 frets like all my Gibsons. I would like that. $355 with all the options I like opposed to $100 for the Big Lou model that only comes with stock fret size and a 25-1/2" scale. It also has 22 frets with a 1/4" overhang at the heel. About the radius. I have no idea what I want in that area. Warmoth offers many. I guess I would like something that feels like the stock one but with the additional width I don't know what that would be.
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Post by Cal-Woody on Jan 13, 2021 8:13:25 GMT -5
Having long fingers like myself, I think you'll find that a neck with a deeper, more rounded profile would be more comfortable. So if you went with a wider neck with a standard profile, it would feel like an Ibanez Wizard neck and gets really uncomfortable after a while. I think that you should look into a neck that has a deeper, more rounded profile that takes more of your palm and allows your fingers to lay more comfortably on the surface rather than to get a wide/flat profile. The Warmoth boat neck profile is great for us long fingered guys and doesn't make your hand cramp up after an hour of playing. Just a thought, Woody
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Post by Leftee on Jan 13, 2021 8:17:16 GMT -5
I just dug in to the Big Lou site and found that they make a 2” lefty neck.
For $100 I’ll try one. 😎
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Post by ninworks on Jan 13, 2021 8:32:37 GMT -5
Having long fingers like myself, I think you'll find that a neck with a deeper, more rounded profile would be more comfortable. So if you went with a wider neck with a standard profile, it would feel like an Ibanez Wizard neck and gets really uncomfortable after a while. I think that you should look into a neck that has a deeper, more rounded profile that takes more of your palm and allows your fingers to lay more comfortably on the surface rather than to get a wide/flat profile. The Warmoth boat neck profile is great for us long fingered guys and doesn't make your hand cramp up after an hour of playing. Just a thought, Woody I have big hands and wide fingers but they aren't all that long. I have big palms. I tend to like thin necks on my other guitars. I even shaved down the backside of my Strat neck to match one of my other guitars that I really like playing. It's just too narrow at the nut.
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Post by Larry Madsen on Jan 13, 2021 8:59:52 GMT -5
I have always seemed to have bigger hands than most. Not sure how one measures hands ... Out of curiosity I just measured from the tip of my thumb across my extended hand and fingers ... It is 9.25" from the tip of my thumb to the tip of my ring finger. My hands are not big and thick more long and lanky, so to speak. I have often thought of getting wider necks and probably will on a future Warmoth build. I've been getting the common 1 11/16" option on everything. I had a Gibson Explorer in the past and while I never really measured it at the time it seemed to have a wider neck out at the nut. There was something I liked about it. I'm honestly not sure if what I liked was that it seemed wide or that it was simply a new and different feel. Heck, not knowing that much about Gibson's neck options, the whole thing might have been in my imagination.
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Post by funkykikuchiyo on Jan 13, 2021 9:42:30 GMT -5
Changing scale will change the sound too. Maybe you'll like it, but likely less "stratty".
Most people are perfectly happy with the Warmoth default, the compound radius 10"-16". The higher the number, the flatter. With such a wide neck, I wouldn't go any rounder than a 10". Your Gibsons are mostly/all 12" (some older ones were closer to 10"). 14"-16" will be found on electrics almost exclusively on Super Strat shredder guitars. Those radii are also most common on acoustics, Gibson and Guilds stick to the rounder 12" but most other brands are flatter. So, if you want to play it safe, go for the compound or the 12". If you're a thumb wrapper at all, a bit rounder might be good, if you plant your thumb at the back of the neck (especially if it is below the center line) flatter might be good.
I've seen good stuff from bestguitarparts.com as well. There was another out of New Jersey that was specializing in being closer to vintage specs, but I can't remember the name and I THINK they might be out of business now.
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Post by Larry Madsen on Jan 13, 2021 9:53:08 GMT -5
Changing scale will change the sound too. Maybe you'll like it, but likely less "stratty". I had a Les Paul at the time as well, not to mention a very limited selection of guitars to choose from. Probably the only Fender I had at that time was a 73 hardtail.
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Post by ninworks on Jan 13, 2021 10:01:19 GMT -5
Changing scale will change the sound too. Maybe you'll like it, but likely less "stratty". Most people are perfectly happy with the Warmoth default, the compound radius 10"-16". The higher the number, the flatter. With such a wide neck, I wouldn't go any rounder than a 10". Your Gibsons are mostly/all 12" (some older ones were closer to 10"). 14"-16" will be found on electrics almost exclusively on Super Strat shredder guitars. Those radii are also most common on acoustics, Gibson and Guilds stick to the rounder 12" but most other brands are flatter. So, if you want to play it safe, go for the compound or the 12". If you're a thumb wrapper at all, a bit rounder might be good, if you plant your thumb at the back of the neck (especially if it is below the center line) flatter might be good. Thanks. That's good information. I hadn't thought about the change in sound due to the scale length but it makes sense. Warmoth also has a wide neck option with the standard 25-1/2" scale length with 22 frets. I like that option. I was just considering the 24-3/4" scale length because that's what all my Gibsons are and those are what I play the most.
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Post by funkykikuchiyo on Jan 13, 2021 10:01:52 GMT -5
Also, probably should back up a few steps on radius.
The people who love a rounder radius say it fits their grip and the curve of their fingers. They'll especially point to barre chords. Flatter radius people like it for the cleaner bends, as the high E especially is less likely to choke out because you aren't shoving it uphill like on a rounder board.
This makes more sense if you put your arm out like you're playing guitar, but with no guitar. If you pick up your shoulder and elbow, you might see your thumb turn out, and your fingers will be more curved. If you drop your shoulder and elbow down in a more relaxed position (like is encouraged for classical players) you'll see your thumb point straight up and your fingers straighten out. Most electric players are somewhere in between and that experiment won't tell you which one is best for you, but it can give you a chance to observe your own behavior the next time you're rocking out.
Personally, I've gotten so used to playing different guitars every day that I am less likely to decide on favorites. As I mentioned above, because of the grip test (mentioned just here) I think wide/flat nut profile and back profile mixed with a round radius or a skinny and round (or V) neck mixed with a flat radius is something of a lose/lose, but why listen to me, when the Eric Johnson Strat breaks those rules and people love it? I digress.
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Post by Peegoo 🏁 on Jan 13, 2021 10:08:55 GMT -5
Yep, and I like it. This Strat has a Warmoth '59 neck with a 1.75" nut. Super comfy to play.
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Post by Larry Madsen on Jan 13, 2021 10:15:41 GMT -5
but why listen to me, when the Eric Johnson Strat breaks those rules and people love it? I digress. That's the truth of it isn't it. It's all very subjective for any given player. My concern is deciding just how much wider to try. Warmoth has the "Super Wide" which I think is 1 7/8". (Ha! Peegoo stuck a PIC in above while I typed) I don't know just how much wider the extra 1 3/4" might feel, though it might be a safe first step ... for me anyway. I've always stuck to the thinner profile when I have a choice. Another factor for many is playing for hours at a time, which I really never do.
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Post by funkykikuchiyo on Jan 13, 2021 10:53:25 GMT -5
I don't know just how much wider the extra 1 3/4" might feel, though it might be a safe first step ... for me anyway. It will feel wider. When you look at the numbers it doesn't seem plausible, but it is noticeable. That measly 1/16" between the 1 5/8" and the 1 11/16" is not only noticeable, but it is enough that Fender saw it necessary to split the difference for their 1.65" nut width! What I like about the 1 3/4" is that if I'm making a nut from a blank, I never have to worry about how close the strings are to the fingerboard edge. With narrow necks you're playing a give/take game of moving closer to the edge and risking drop off and of crowding the strings in too close together. 1 11/16" nuts come out okay, but the 1 3/4" necks have so much space I never feel like I'm cheating anything. That's just me, though. The 1 7/8" is a beast. That is a 12-string neck with 6 strings. If you see one unstrung across a room, you'll assume it is a 7-string neck until you count the tuner holes.
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Post by Larry Madsen on Jan 13, 2021 11:01:20 GMT -5
Peegoo, I love the yellow. I have felt pretty strongly about painting a Strat yellow, like my pawn shop project. I have plenty of the paint left for half a dozen bodies. DSC_2151 by Larry Madsen, on Flickr
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Post by ninworks on Jan 13, 2021 11:03:57 GMT -5
I don't know just how much wider the extra 1 3/4" might feel, though it might be a safe first step ... for me anyway. The 1 7/8" is a beast. That is a 12-string neck with 6 strings. If you see one unstrung across a room, you'll assume it is a 7-string neck until you count the tuner holes. Tuner holes brings up another question. The Warmoth necks have tuner hole size options. I have vintage tuners on my Strat but have no idea what the hole size is. I don't really want to take a tuner off to measure it if I don't have to. Do you know what size holes those tuners need?
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Post by Leftee on Jan 13, 2021 12:49:13 GMT -5
The holes on these extra-wide necks are 10mm. That's modern Grover/Gotoh size. Vintage are 11/32".
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Post by ninworks on May 4, 2021 5:53:52 GMT -5
I'm going to pull the trigger on a wider Warmoth neck for the Strat. I sold my Minimoog so I have some money to play with. I'm thinking, a 1-3/4" nut width, maple fingerboard, 10" - 16" compound radius, 21" scale with the extra fret, and the biggest fretwire I can get. Going to be expensive.
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Post by Leftee on May 4, 2021 7:58:25 GMT -5
😎
What neck carve?
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Post by ninworks on May 4, 2021 8:27:19 GMT -5
Standard Thin. I generally don't care for thick necks.
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Post by Leftee on May 4, 2021 8:29:26 GMT -5
I don’t think that neck will be all that expensive. My guess is less than $250.
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Post by ninworks on May 4, 2021 13:20:57 GMT -5
I priced one out at Warmoth. A little over $500 for everything I wanted. Kind of pricey but I want it finished so that's about $130 extra.
I also hear of another company called Musikraft that I need to check out.
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Post by Leftee on May 4, 2021 14:10:59 GMT -5
Oh yeah, finished is a lot.
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Post by funkykikuchiyo on May 5, 2021 8:56:32 GMT -5
Wait, what scale?
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Post by Leftee on May 5, 2021 10:20:52 GMT -5
If I had to guess...
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Post by Peegoo 🏁 on May 5, 2021 13:19:59 GMT -5
Apparently, ^^that^^ Taylor scale hits Da Shpot!
I have a Seagull S6 that's 1 7/8" at the nut. It is a chunky handful, but I like large chunky necks.
[Moe voice] On my guitars, yoo im-ba-siles!
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Post by ninworks on May 5, 2021 17:47:31 GMT -5
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Post by ninworks on May 8, 2021 7:52:56 GMT -5
I ordered a neck from Musikraft. My old friend and guitar tech of 30 years recommended them to me. He thinks they are a better product than Warmoth and a smidge cheaper. They also have more neck profile and finish options. I got everything I wanted about $25 cheaper. They have a roasted maple finish option that I went for. They also have the larger CBS headstock shape that I like more than the newer ones.
I went with a 1-3/4" nut width, 25-1/2" scale, 22 frets, their D 75-81 thin neck profile, 10"-16" compound radius, super jumbo fret wire, roasted maple, 1/8" nut slot, headstock truss rod adjuster, no break on the fingerboard edges so I can get a larger playing surface, and a lacquer finish for $485. $511 with state sales tax and shipping.
The lead time is 12 weeks. This is going to be a big step for Mr. Banana Fingers.
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