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Post by ninworks on Jan 9, 2021 14:02:35 GMT -5
The thread Roly posted about his mix in "Please Be Brutal" sidestepped into another topic that I didn't want to continue contaminating his post with. It started with The Haas Effect and expanded from there. Here is the place to post some recording technique you have either learned from someone or discovered yourself.
We started talking about polarity inversions and delays and that made me remember something I messed with long ago that can widen the stereo spectrum where it sounds like it is outside the speakers. It's a pseudo-stereo-enhancement that can work pretty well if you're careful with the levels. This works especially well with double-tracked electric guitars that weren't printed with effects. It also works best when the 2 tracks don't have the exact same sound. It also sounds good when you detune a couple strings on one of the guitars a beat or two flat. First, pan your doubled tracks hard left and right. Duplicate each track and flip the polarity for the duplicated tracks 180 degrees. Pan the duplicated and polarity-reversed track for the left side hard right then pan the other duplicated track hard left. Bring the levels of the duplicated tracks up underneath the originals and see what happens. The stereo image for the guitars sounds wider.
You can do a better stereo enhancement with a designated widener plugin but this will work.
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Post by Auf Kiltre on Jan 9, 2021 19:12:53 GMT -5
Great idea of a thread.
This isn't a particularly unique idea but one I've employed many times. 2 or 3 acoustic guitars for a heavily acoustic rhythmic strumming tune. Invert the parts using a capo and spread them left, right and (if 3 parts) center. It gives the feeling of a wide 12 string. Sends to a reverb buss and pan the verb opposite to the track.
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Post by ninworks on Jan 10, 2021 6:06:22 GMT -5
That's a good one. I want to get a cheap acoustic guitar and string it for Nashville tuning. Then I can add it to another guitar to get that 12 string sound.
There's another way of recording 2 different acoustic guitars using 2 mikes on each. Put one mic 6" to 8" from where the neck joins the body and point the other one behind the bridge at the same 6" to 8" as the neck mic. Do that with both acoustics. When mixing, pan the neck mic from one guitar hard left and the body mic from that guitar hard right. Pan the neck mic from the other acoustic hard right and the body mic hard left. It makes for a very big stereo close-miked acoustic guitar sound. If you played similar parts at different fret positions the sound is huge. Even if you play the same parts the sound is big and wide.
This is cool. Lets keep it going. I have lots of ideas.
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Post by roly on Jan 10, 2021 16:59:39 GMT -5
Pardon the pun....I'm all ears.
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Post by Auf Kiltre on Jan 12, 2021 9:00:56 GMT -5
Anybody have any tricks or methodology using parallel compression? My current method of using compression is to add it right to the track (like a bass for instance) as an effect. If I understand the process of P/C you buss it out to another track or as an effect and mix the 2 signals together. I played with this a little yesterday on a bass track and honestly didn't hear results that justified the extra effort. Am I missing something integral to the process?
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Post by ninworks on Jan 12, 2021 12:23:34 GMT -5
Parallel compression works very well on bass guitar. Especially if you're trying to add some mid or high mid frequencies to the track. To do this you would make a duplicate of the uncompressed track. Mute it and then add whatever compression or limiting to the original track to even out the level and control the peaks. EQ to taste. If you can't get that track to have the desired tonality to it then you bring up the duplicated track and process it. Then mix it in underneath. That's the gist of it. Parallel compression is mostly used to accent a particular frequency range.
For example, if I wanted to add some midrange punch to the bass track then I would go to the duplicated track and use a high-pass filter to roll off the bottom end below the midrange frequency you would like to boost. You may even want to use a low-pass filter to remove anything above that frequency range. Then add a compressor at a ratio somewhere around 3:1 to 5:1. Set the threshold aggressively to where you're getting about 10db of gain reduction. Insert an EQ after the compressor and boost the frequency range you want to add to the original bass track's tone. Then it's just a matter of getting the balance between the two tracks right. Like anything, it will probably require some adjustments with either the EQ or compressor, or both, to make it sit in the track.
Parallel processing works in a similar fashion but can be used to add body to a sound other than tonality. This works well on kick and snare drums. Again you would duplicate whatever track you want to process. You would compress the duplicated track, usually without using an EQ but, not always. Solo the duplicated track and adjust the attack time on the compressor faster to where the high end transients just start to become noticeably dull then slow it down a little to let them through without the compressor affecting them. Next adjust the decay time to where it breathes with the track. Meaning the compression dies away just before the next hit. Then mix that in underneath the original track. What that will do is make the meatier frequencies of the snare drum come up in the mix and seem to decay slower. This does the same thing to a kick drum. It adds more body to the sound.
Compressors were very hard for me to learn how to use. The effect seems to sometimes be invisible and I had to learn how to hear them. Using them for level problem solving was pretty easy but to use them as an effect is different and the results are usually pretty minimal but cumulative. As a result it was hard for me to hear what they were doing.
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Post by themaestro on Jan 12, 2021 17:19:45 GMT -5
Is that vocal you're recording just a hair too low or too high for you?
This is a trick saw at Robin Hood Studio in Tyler Texas, back in the '70s. Robin Hood recorded some of the early ZZTop stuff. My college was there to make a record of student-authored songs. It was a 2 inch tape 24 track studio.
One song had a girl sing the melody and 3 other harmony parts. When it came to the lowest vocal, it was just a skosh too low for her. For the last vocal, Robin turned the variable speed up just a little on the tape deck. It changed the pitch up just a half or whole step. Just enough for the vocalist too hit that low note better. She recorded the track. Robin then returned the variable speed to normal. Everything, including the latest vocal all return to their original pitch.
It works in reverse, too. I did it when I was recording on my 8 track ADAT digital tape deck, only I was having trouble with a high harmony. I slowed the deck down about a step and sang my part. Returned the speed to normal and everything matched.
You can get away with this if you don't change the pitch too far. About a whole step is about the limit or the normal playback might start sounding chipmunky or draggy. It also works best with harmony parts and not the lead vocal.
This works in a DAW too.
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Post by Auf Kiltre on Jan 12, 2021 19:22:44 GMT -5
I did the pitch variation thing on my old Tascam portastudio a few times back in the 90's. As a goof I did "Ask The Lonely" by the Four Tops and tracked the speed faster a half step so my vocal was lower. The end result was kinda comical. Only Levi can sing like Levi 🤣
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Post by HenryJ on Jan 13, 2021 12:32:41 GMT -5
Only Levi can sing like Levi 🤣 Oh, I don't know. My wife has this ugly plant out back that I expect to break out into song and sounding just like Levi. |
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Post by ninworks on Jan 15, 2021 8:30:21 GMT -5
Using automation to make a strumming rhythm guitar track come to life is a pretty cool effect. Especially on a track without drums. By manually moving the fader up and down a little to make the track pump with the beat of the song can make a rhythm track come to life. Accenting on beats 2 and 4 for example. It doesn't take much. A half to a whole db is usually enough. It's not really audible and is kind of subliminal but it makes a difference. If you have 2 tracks of guitar, buss them to a subgroup and then add the automation to that so both guitars are pumping in sync with each other. Writing the automation manually with the fader is sort of random and sounds like it was played that way.
This is best done to just one instrument combination. If done to more than one you can get a sort of flam effect between the multiple instruments that will sound weird.
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Post by Auf Kiltre on Jan 15, 2021 9:55:30 GMT -5
Writing the automation manually with the fader is sort of random and sounds like it was played that way. I pretty much understand what you're saying as far as achieving the results, I'm a little confused as to the process in P/T. When I "mix" in PT(10), I select "bounce to" and render the track to a 16 (or 24) bit 2 track wav file. All volume modulation is already in place by me adding breakpoints to the respective track and adding the volume change(s) on the volume lane. Are you saying you ride faders in real time while mixing? |
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Post by ninworks on Jan 15, 2021 20:06:39 GMT -5
Writing the automation manually with the fader is sort of random and sounds like it was played that way. I pretty much understand what you're saying as far as achieving the results, I'm a little confused as to the process in P/T. When I "mix" in PT(10), I select "bounce to" and render the track to a 16 (or 24) bit 2 track wav file. All volume modulation is already in place by me adding breakpoints to the respective track and adding the volume change(s) on the volume lane. Are you saying you ride faders in real time while mixing? Yes, well, sort of. You manually manipulate the one fader to write the automation into Pro Tools, during playback, with the mouse, before the actual bouncing of the multi-tracks to your final mix. This can be done to every track in the song but unless you have some kind of control surface you will only be able to do one track at a time. Set the automation selector on the channel to "Touch." As soon as you click on and move the fader it will write whatever moves you make to it into the automation for that track during playback. It will also overwrite whatever automation is there while the fader is being moved. As soon as you release the fader it goes back to whatever was written there before. Select "Read" on the automation selector for playback. Once the automation is written it will play it back exactly the same every time it's played. You can also write automation by using the pan pot, mute button, send level fader or mute, etc. Automation doesn't have to be drawn in using either break points the pencil tool, or changing the actual volume of the entire track selection. There are many things in PT that can write automation by manipulating their controls with the mouse. One word of warning when automating many tracks. Volume automation is very processor-use heavy. There is an option somewhere, I don't remember where, so you can thin the automation data which will reduce processor usage. |
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Post by Auf Kiltre on Jan 16, 2021 8:27:21 GMT -5
Great info. I've learned P/T just enough to be dangerous and 8 years later I'm still learning. I won't belabor this particular topic as it really doesn't fit the odd recording techniques discussion. Like many complex programs there are many different ways to achieve something in P/T and I'm sure if someone more experienced than myself watched my processes they'd go "why are you doing it that way?". I'll give it a go, although a mouse seems a clunky work surface for those half db shifts, even with the finer increments by holding down the ctrl key (I'm on Windows).
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Post by ninworks on Jan 16, 2021 9:10:19 GMT -5
I'm on Windows too.
For small, fine, and repetitive, adjustments like that I have found that it is sometimes helpful to have something to use as a barrier to touch the front, or rear, of your mouse on. I use the index finger of my opposite hand to butt the mouse up against. That way I can feel how hard I am touching it and that makes it to where all you really have to be careful with is how far you pull the mouse away from it. That eliminates one of the axes you have to be careful with. With a little rehearsal before actually recording the pass it's pretty easy to make those types of small and quick adjustments.
As for "Odd" recording techniques, any kind of technique can be put in this thread. I started with "Odd" because that's kind of what was going on with the first couple posts.
Yes, there are many ways to get the same results with just about any DAW these days. I equate it to Microsoft Office. Each program is so versatile and powerful that nobody uses all of it and there are many different ways to achieve the same results.
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Post by Auf Kiltre on Jan 19, 2021 15:12:47 GMT -5
I used the "write" function finally in my latest project and it worked pretty well. Its particularly cool on doing some swells on the reverb buss. I found any slop can be fine tuned by editing the written points later on. It would be great if there was a way to set limits to the fader so that you could tell it not to exceed say 4 dB. I wonder if there is a way to assign the fader function to a midi keyboard. 🤔
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Post by ninworks on Jan 20, 2021 4:48:43 GMT -5
I've never done that but I would imagine it's possible. They hook control surfaces to PT all of the time for remote fader manipulation. I just don't know if they are MIDI driven or not.
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Post by ninworks on Jan 21, 2021 12:54:50 GMT -5
This one is about how to use multiband compressors. Using multiband compression is seldom about using all of the bands on one instance of the plugin. It's used more like a parametric equalizer than a compressor to address problems. If you have a place in the frequency spectrum that needs a boost or a cut then you can address that particular frequency range without affecting others.
For instance, if there is a overabundant harshness at, let's say, 3kHz, then you can set the compression ratio to whatever you want, set the crossover on the compressor to that particular range, then boost the output volume for that range in the compressor. Sweep through the problem area until you hear the nasty frequencies, set the Q width to hone in on the problem, then turn down the output level for that range of the compressor. This will attenuate that frequency much like an EQ but will be a lot more controllable due to all of the parameters the compressor has that an EQ doesn't. You may need to monkey with the compression ratio, Q width, and output level to get the desired outcome.
You can also use a multiband compressor to boost frequency ranges like an EQ. The setup is the same as when attenuating up until the point where you adjust the final output level. In this case you would turn it up instead of turning it down.
If you have more than one frequency range that needs help you may be able to remedy them with one instance of the plugin but it usually works better to use one instance per problem area because you will have more control.
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Post by Auf Kiltre on Jan 21, 2021 14:35:59 GMT -5
Back in elementary school and into high school I had a problem with math (beyond addition, multiplication and subtraction). I could have things explained to me, grasp them momentarily and watch it vanish like my breath on a cold day. That's me and compression. 
Most of my compression use is settings I derived from watch YouTube tutorials. I match what they're doing, save them as, for example "vocal starting point". I'll tweak input and make-up gain, listen for pumping and do some adjustments from there. But honestly I have no idea what the hell I'm doing, lol.
I'll study this and see if any light bulbs turn on.
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Post by ninworks on Jan 21, 2021 17:40:47 GMT -5
Compressors were kind of a black art to me as well until I saw a video one time with an example for how to set them up. Once it was explained it wasn't hard to understand. I still don't have a real good handle on using compressors as an effect. Which type of compressor to use for what application kinda-thang. I know some techniques but with my old band-beaten ears it's not easy for me to hear what it's doing to the signal sometimes unless it's drastic.
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Post by ninworks on Jan 25, 2021 11:59:54 GMT -5
Here's weird one for helping with panning assignments when mixing. If you're having trouble deciding where in the stereo spectrum to put a particular track sum the stereo mix to mono to see if the instrument you're working with is still clear in the mix. If it's not, sometimes changing the pan location for that track in small increments can make it stand out more in mono. Then switch back to stereo and see what happened to it. If it is clear in mono then it is almost always clear in stereo. There are other things that can be done to that track as well to help its pan assignment be clearer. High and low pass filters, and EQ, can make a big difference as well but that's a whole different post.
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