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Post by windmill on Jan 30, 2021 21:17:17 GMT -5
As life has gone on the old saying "You can't teach someone till they are willing to learn" becomes more obvious.
So I have read a few times, in the last few weeks, that the role of the bass is to anticipate chord changes.
Do you think it should be
- All the time
- Most of the time
- Only when it suits the song
- On every I-IV-V tune ever written
Any thoughts ?
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Post by themaestro on Jan 31, 2021 8:37:38 GMT -5
Good question. I think it depends a lot on the genre. Some styles, like more jazz-oriented stuff pretty much expects it. Walk up/down and passing tones. Some rock styles like driving eighth notes maybe not so much.
When thinking about it, I signal changes a lot. Some of it obvious, some not so much. I know it's happening, but I'm not sure if others always catch it. Being a bass player, it is my experience that a lot of other players just don't really pay attention to the bassist, which opens a whole 'nother can of worms. Because most people think of bass as a "support" instrument, I have found that leading a band while playing bass is difficult because no one is actively listening to me.
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Post by Peegoo 🏁 on Jan 31, 2021 10:12:55 GMT -5
I think a bass player signaling changes by playing the 'in-between' notes makes it more enjoyable for the listener, even if the listener knows nothing about music.
The brain does a great job of making sense of the notes, even when the listener is not conscious of it ocurring. I particularly like bassists that do this when I'm jamming on tunes I don't know, because they lead me right into the changes. A truly good bassist will let you know there's a bridge coming up a mile away.
I've been checking out Lee Sklar's YT channel since he started it up several months back, and he exemplifies this practice. Most everything he does sounds pretty simple, but it's purposefully deliberate really quite complicated.
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Post by Auf Kiltre on Jan 31, 2021 11:20:56 GMT -5
I presume this means leading notes to make the upcoming change more apparent, like a b or d note preceding a C1. What immediately comes to mind is James Jamerson who's funky style either frequently navigated around the predictability or just masked it very well.
Interesting discussion.
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Post by hushnel on Jan 31, 2021 12:58:22 GMT -5
It’s both, depends on the song. Most blues tune are all about the bass line walking to the next chord change. But it also serves for sharp edged transitions such as “She’s Not There” by the Zombies. On tunes where it rides on the one, like some of the old blues, it become the variations of melody inside the constricted form.
I’ve often thought that the bass’s strength/purpose in many cases, is to bridge the other instruments into a cohesive form the audience can understand. And always the root that holds up the tune.
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Post by zoikzz on Jan 31, 2021 18:02:31 GMT -5
Whence I listen to my favorite Rock and Blues genres, Easy Chromatic lines become very apparent. Just have to land in the right spot on. Who listens to the bassist "Shuddup". Love to all
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Post by chicagodude on Jan 31, 2021 22:23:56 GMT -5
themaestro, if you take charge and drive the song, they will pay attention!
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Post by themaestro on Jan 31, 2021 22:42:32 GMT -5
chicagodude, only if you are playing with people that understand the roles of all the different instruments. It is really surprising how many people don't listen.
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Post by LTB on Feb 1, 2021 2:11:31 GMT -5
I like to think we ( bass players) are important whether others do or not
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Post by themaestro on Feb 1, 2021 8:55:45 GMT -5
I like to think we ( bass players) are important whether others do or not That's one of the reasons I play bass.
1st reason: I just like bass. It's the first thing I listen to when I hear a song, that and the bass/drums interplay. It's been that way since I was a kid. My first instrument was accordion and I loved the bass buttons. The first time I played a tried out a bass guitar, I realized that was my instrument.
2nd reason: I want to play an important instrument, but I love being on the support team. If I'm going to sing, I much prefer singing harmony. I am anything but a "hey look at me" frontman or hot soloist.
It is possible I overrate my importance.
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Post by hushnel on Feb 1, 2021 10:56:10 GMT -5
Bass is the spine and cover of a good book, with out it the pages start to fall apart and the story becomes confused and lost.
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Post by Auf Kiltre on Feb 1, 2021 11:07:17 GMT -5
On a recent project I tracked a reference bass until another player could do the track. I then did a reference mix for him without my bass part and was once again reminded how important a role the bass plays. It's not just that space anchoring things with the kick drum, but the dissipating air that lifts up through the track and melds with all the other instruments and frequencies. Without that energy strong performances higher up the dial can seem listless and anemic.
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Post by Larry Madsen on Feb 1, 2021 17:42:26 GMT -5
I've been checking out Lee Sklar's YT channel since he started it up several months back Side story: I was checking Lee out most days as well ... until one day he started talking about the sticker on his bass, which turned me off a bit. Incredible bass player though. |
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Post by LTB on Feb 1, 2021 23:39:57 GMT -5
I am anything but a "hey look at me" frontman or hot soloist. Same here. I don’t do solos. I enjoy being a part of the whole sound structure |
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MoJoe
Wholenote
Posts: 855
Formerly Known As: quiksilver
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Post by MoJoe on Feb 2, 2021 15:32:28 GMT -5
I think a bass player signaling changes by playing the 'in-between' notes makes it more enjoyable for the listener, even if the listener knows nothing about music. The brain does a great job of making sense of the notes, even when the listener is not conscious of it ocurring. I particularly like bassists that do this when I'm jamming on tunes I don't know, because they lead me right into the changes. A truly good bassist will let you know there's a bridge coming up a mile away. This. Spot on job description for a bass player. And the reason to pick it up when I found subtle twists in moods produced in fact by the bass lines only. Leaning into a bassman's alternative mindset on how to make a song work opened up a new world and bags of fun after playing the guitar for ages. Big part of it is expressed in the quote above. So the answer to the OP is yes. All the time. When it suits the song. 😎 |
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Post by Rick Knight on Feb 9, 2021 15:35:16 GMT -5
Do you think it should be
- All the time
- Most of the time
- Only when it suits the song
- On every I-IV-V tune ever written I think it's when it suits the song. That said, I've been doing a lot of it with I IV Vs recently. |
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Post by windmill on Feb 9, 2021 17:59:48 GMT -5
On some I-IV-V tunes the band does I spend the whole tune walking the bass line up or down to the root note of the next chord. When the guitar players are soloing, I also do it to try and drag some attention away from them  |
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Post by Auf Kiltre on Feb 10, 2021 11:40:40 GMT -5
One related bass turn around I love playing is on the I-VI-II-V. Half step walk down on each change. I.E. "E - D-C#-G-F#- C-B - F-E". Something mentally stimulating playing that pattern and the tonal departure from the scale is kinda cool.
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rwb
Quarternote
Posts: 14
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Post by rwb on Feb 16, 2021 22:13:39 GMT -5
One form of anticipating ("announcing") the coming change that I like doing is a rhythmic variation in the bar or two before the change occurs. (I'm entirely in the blues genre, so perhaps this doesn't work elsewhere)
I just try to avoid the really obvious, stale methods of connecting sections.
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Post by rickyguitar on Feb 19, 2021 5:17:14 GMT -5
When it fits, but I really kinda loath 1/8th note plods.
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Post by Taildragger on Feb 19, 2021 13:14:56 GMT -5
This whole interview is interesting (at least to anyone who enjoys Casady's playing as much as I do) but as far as "anticipating chord changes" goes, he makes an entertaining comments starting @ around 8:18.
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Post by LTB on Mar 11, 2021 7:35:19 GMT -5
Interesting interview TD Thanks for posting
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twangmeister
Wholenote
Posts: 349
Formerly Known As: Twangmeister
Age: 72 and fading fast.....
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Post by twangmeister on Mar 31, 2021 22:32:44 GMT -5
For playing rock, country and acoustic stuff knowing the progression allows you to anticipate changes. When subbing most of the stuff I played was it was easy to anticipate a change. but when I was playing big band jazz our arrangements were too complicated for that. Fortunately I was playing Freddy Green guitar and had a chart in front of me. The last bass player I played with was a top notch pro who could do a two hour program totally ad libbed. He was one of my two bandmates out of 20 musicians that got paid for rehearsing and not just at performances.
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