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Post by windmill on Feb 2, 2021 20:18:55 GMT -5
After the Badass Bridge thread, I have worked on lowering the action on my MiJ Jag bass. I put in a shim in order to get the saddles off the bass plate but the action was still high so I had another go at turning the truss rod.
....which worked this time, the action has dropped a couple of mm, success.
Then I started on the other bass, an MiA Jag. This time I had a small amount of room to lower the saddles before trying anything else.
But, on the first saddle the first grub screw worked, the second didn't. It had rusted solid.
Took the saddle off and clamped it and finally got it free, but the hex screw has been stripped. The same is on one of the other saddles.
So now I am after a couple of these grub screws.
Any idea where to get them from ?
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Post by Peegoo 🏁 on Feb 2, 2021 21:00:00 GMT -5
If you have a Dremel you can make your own really cheaply.
Remove one of the saddles and take it to your local Mitre 10 or True Value and see if they have grub screws that fit. Even if they're too long, you can trim off the bottoms with the Dremel.
If they don't have grub screws, buy a few screws that fit. Cut each screw into 1cm lengths, and use the thin cutoff wheel in the Dremel to make a screwdriver slot across one one end of each piece. Chuck each piece into your drill (slotted end in) and run the drill as you hold a file against the end of the spinning screw to make a nice round end on it.
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Post by windmill on Feb 3, 2021 2:45:12 GMT -5
Had another look morning, the hex head is ok but I have rounded the allen key due to it being a bit small. Took the saddle down to the local music shop and they were able to turn the rusted screw with the right size allen key. Then they hunted down some grub screws, except they are chrome and with a slot head, the originals are black with the hex head. Their conclusion was the saddle screw had been "loctited". SO I am at the stage I was this time yesterday !  |
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Post by Peegoo 🏁 on Feb 3, 2021 11:50:22 GMT -5
Ohhhh man! Ya can't win!
If you have a bad/rounded hex wrench, gently grind about 2mm off the end (dip it in water to keep it cool).
Anytime you have a grub screw that seems to be frozen in place, do not overtorque the tool. Instead, remove the saddle and heat it with a torch. A heat gun will also work great for this.
Not glowing hot, but smoking hot. The little screw will turn out no problem. This works on Loctite, rust, DNA, etc.
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Post by LTB on Feb 9, 2021 20:34:44 GMT -5
Ohhhh man! Ya can't win! If you have a bad/rounded hex wrench, gently grind about 2mm off the end (dip it in water to keep it cool). Anytime you have a grub screw that seems to be frozen in place, do not overtorque the tool. Instead, remove the saddle and heat it with a torch. A heat gun will also work great for this. Not glowing hot, but smoking hot. The little screw will turn out no problem. This works on Loctite, rust, DNA, etc. I've done this but for different reasons. Needed a hexkey to fit tight spot so I ground down to 3/8” on short end and smoothed edges slightly. |
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Post by windmill on Feb 9, 2021 20:51:50 GMT -5
Thanks for the advice about the heating up the saddle to free up loctite etc . This will come handy for all sorts of things.
Have lowered the saddles to the base plate but it is still too high on the low E string.
Haven't done any more yet but I think putting a shim in will be the next step
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Post by Peegoo 🏁 on Feb 9, 2021 23:07:03 GMT -5
Ahhh. Stick a shim in the pocket here (the red thing):  |
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Post by chicagodude on Feb 10, 2021 22:23:58 GMT -5
I believe some shims can cause the "ski-jump" problem at the last few frets. I prefer a full neck-pocket shim so there is no gap to allow the wood to deform. Stewmac sells those full neck-pocket shims with various degrees of pitch.
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Post by themaestro on Feb 10, 2021 23:21:48 GMT -5
I've never had any problems using just partial shims like Peegoo has pictured above. I've done a lot of them. Neck heels are pretty thick, pretty stiff and that neck is not going to bend in just the length of the pocket. I don't think you could ever warp them with a thin partial shim. Generally, if you are going to get a ski-jump in the neck, it happens just past the neck heel where the neck leaves the neck pocket.
Edit: Also, I think that if a neck is shimmed from the manufacturer, it is usually just a partial shim.
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DrKev
Wholenote
It's just a guitar, it's not rocket science.
Posts: 416
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Post by DrKev on Feb 11, 2021 8:50:21 GMT -5
I really don't think the ski jump thing is an issue either. As maestro said above, no manufacturer that I know of ever uses 'em. And this is not new technology here either. 70 years since Fender's first guitar came out if there was a problem the manufacturers would have figured it out by now. And the neck heel on a bass is a block of solid maple, an inch thick and four inches long. That is STIFF. That a 0.030" shim could produce enough deformation to make a difference seems crazy to me. If nothing else, you'd have to crank STUPID HARD on the darn screws to do it. And I've heard people talk of a vacuum under there, which is 100% nonsense.
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Post by Peegoo 🏁 on Feb 11, 2021 9:39:14 GMT -5
I believe some shims can cause the "ski-jump" problem at the last few frets. I prefer a full neck-pocket shim so there is no gap to allow the wood to deform. Stewmac sells those full neck-pocket shims with various degrees of pitch. I defense of chicagodude, a full shim is ideal. A proper neck angle with no shim is really more sooper-dooper ideal because it saves extra work. But adding a shim could bend the wood only if there were no screws right next to it pulling it into hard contact with the shim. What Stooge Mac has done is simply respond to a market created by Tha Innernet, which has helped feed an entire industry around really granular details of the guitar tone recipe. Players have always been quite obsessive about their gear, but before about 1982 the only tone chasing involved a guitar and an amp and maybe a few pedals. If you wanted the Beatles sound, you got a Ric or a Gretsch or a Casino and a Vox amp. Hendrix? A Strat and a Marshall amp. If you wanted Buck Owens and Don Rich, you got a Tele and a Fender amp. These days, lots (LOTS) of Strat players arrange the vibrato springs like this /|\ instead of this ||| because a photog snapped a pic of the back of one of Hendix's Strats at a show and it got published in a music rag in the 70s. So THAT'S part of the toan recipe! <--This one anecdote is a perfect example of the Monkey on the Ladder/Five Monkeys experiment. Many players now lose sleep if they remove the pickguard from their Telecaster and discover one of the screws is longer or shorter than the others. Guitar players happily debate how a gap around sides or the end of a neck in its pocket can affect the tone. Or not. An air gap between the neck and the body? Horrors! "There's no acousticacious couplicity! ...even tho I have no scientitious informations to prove it." Stooge Mac is just answering market demand. Many guitar players do often listen more with their eyes than their ears. If this level of obsession had occured in the 50s/60s, the response to this behavior would've been something along the lines of, "just go practice; that's how Buddy Holly got his sound." All that considered though, playing guitar is like any other hobby/activity/career, in that participants can choose to casually go after it, or turn it into a religion with its own dogma and unique practices (there's that pesky word practice again). Okay, rant over. I will admit that I'm obsessive about keeping my guitars clean and operating properly. But unless something is gunky or broken, I tend to leave it alone. Gotta go. I'm off to buy a pedal that has a wacky name and the right color to match the others on pedalboard three of four  |
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Post by Taildragger on Feb 11, 2021 21:36:03 GMT -5
This is a bit of a side-bar to precisely what this thread was originally about, but it does apply to set up.
I recently stumbled across a YouTube video by Dan Erlewine regarding truss rod adjustment. The gist of it was that too many players are leery of adjusting their own truss rod for fear of breaking it and that he rarely sees them getting broken.
I had a couple of basses laying around with necks suffering from excessive relief. I had previously attempted to adjust it out via the truss rods but had concluded that the rods were both at maximum adjustment. After watching the video, I thought, "what the heck, I'm not playing them on account of the excessive relief anyway, so what do I have to lose?"
Applied a bit more muscle to the allen wrench and whaddya know: managed to flatten out both necks and get them way more playable. I used about a 6"-long allen but didn't add any additional length (a "cheater" as you would on a breaker bar) for extra leverage. That last quarter turn required that did the trick was pretty darn stiff on both, but nothing went "snap" or "pop".
I'm not suggesting that anyone else should proceed beyond what they're personally comfortable with. All I know is I have two basses that are now way more playable than they were previously and have suffered no casualties.
One caveat: make absolutely sure that you're using exactly the correct allen wrench or socket and that it is completely engaged before you apply force. That has to be done by feel since it's impossible to see down into those little holes in the headstock once the tool is inserted.
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Post by Peegoo 🏁 on Feb 12, 2021 10:55:15 GMT -5
^Good advice^ All I can add to that is if you need to flatten out the neck and the rod seems really tight, loosen it first by about 1/8th of a turn to get the nut to pop loose. The reason is these rods often have a bit of corrosion on the threads between the nut and rod and the two parts become chemically welded together by the oxidation. Initially tightening the nut works against both the corrosion and the rod's tension. Loosening it first acts against only the corrosion and reduces the risk of stripping the threads or breaking the rod. Loud clicks, creaks, and cracking sounds are normal, and generally freak a person right out of their shoes if they've never heard it before. It does sound like you're destroying it when the nut first breaks loose. If you're feeling really froggy and you can remove the nut completely, blow out any dust from the hole and lube the nut. Here's how:  |
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Post by Taildragger on Feb 12, 2021 15:43:22 GMT -5
^I concur^
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Post by windmill on Mar 2, 2021 16:42:33 GMT -5
In this week's episode, I got out the shortscale bolt-neck Yamaha bass that I just use at home, and of course the action is high, it measured a bit over 6mm on the low E at the 12th fret. There was some relief in the neck, so with the advice and encouragement of Peegoo and LTB posted above, I loosened the strings and gave the truss rod a turn, first to loosen and then started tightening it, as recommemended by Peegoo. Gave one more 1/8th turn just for luck and tightened up the strings. The neck looked fairly straight so I lowered the saddles, the low E right down to the base plate. The low E now measures 3mm at the 12th fret, a big improvement so I will forgo putting in a shim for now. Thank you for your help. |
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Post by Peegoo 🏁 on Mar 2, 2021 22:51:17 GMT -5
iExcellente!
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Post by windmill on Mar 7, 2021 18:37:20 GMT -5
Oops ! Flush with the success of lowering the action on the 2 basses mentioned above I decided to tackle the Teisco EB4 short scale, the "leave around the house for practising" bass. Been in my possession for 40 years and was old when I got it. Have never touched the truss rod in that time but gave it a go, action at the 12th fret was 5mm. The truss rod was loose so I tightened it till there was some resistance. Left it a while, but no change. Gave it another 1/8 turn this time it was very stiff. after a while I checked the action again but no difference. Had a look at the fret board in case the truss rod was lifting it, looked ok. So I gave it another 1/16th turn, just for luck. Checked the relief in the neck and up near the nut there was an unusual bend. Yep, lt had started to lift the fret board off the neck, only by a millimetre or so. Decided then that the original height of the action was good enough, loosened off the rod and called it quits. I concluded that asking a 50 year old guitar, that was cheap when it was made, to be better than that was pushing it a bit too far. So it is now back to "normal" and a lesson learned. |
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