|
Post by Auf Kiltre on Mar 15, 2021 15:05:30 GMT -5
I typically setup my Strats and Teles more or less by feel and ear, not falling far from spec I suppose. I just leveled, crowned and polished the frets on my new Uglycaster and decided to follow the published Fender specs to a tee, and well, I guess they know what they're talking about. The closest thing to marginal is probably the nut/string clearance at the first fret, which still relied on my eyeballs under magnification for depth and break angle.
I think I have a new favorite guitar.
How do *you* do your setups?
|
|
leftrightout
Wholenote
Sometimes I pretend to be normal and then it becomes boring..............
Posts: 205
|
Post by leftrightout on Mar 15, 2021 15:23:43 GMT -5
Short answer No,
Depends on the guitar. I just set for feel I'm no expert but i no what i don't like the feel of
If it's comfortable i'll play the guitar . if it isn't then i'll change it
whatever feels comfortable under the hand i try not to overthink it
but If i intend to play slide on a guitar I set the action a little higher,
or if the guitar has a 7.25 radius i actually set it up to a 10" or 12" radius at the bridge raising the outer strings, to give me more room to bend plus i play a bit heavy handed.
and if its a Gibson or acoustic i don't because Fender specs just doesn't work
|
|
|
Post by Auf Kiltre on Mar 15, 2021 16:30:22 GMT -5
Yeah, for a 7.25 radius neck there is some ambiguity in the string height on the Fender specs. 5/64" on the "bass side" 17th fret, 4/64" (1/16" for simpletons like me) on the treble side at the 17th fret. I presume that doesn't omit a gradual taper on the middle strings. Now I'm curious how that translates string radius at the bridge.
Off to find my radius gauges. (Isn't retirement boredom grand?)
|
|
leftrightout
Wholenote
Sometimes I pretend to be normal and then it becomes boring..............
Posts: 205
|
Post by leftrightout on Mar 15, 2021 16:49:32 GMT -5
by setting the radius at the bridge to say 12" on a 7.25 neck you get a compound string plane, (like a compound radius neck but with out the hassle of sanding planing and fretwork) the strings flatten out as you go toward the bridge (which entails raising the action) for me i found that it made slide playing a lot easier and the raising the string height on on the high e and b strings stopped fretting out on bends.
of course setting the radius is where i begin and then tweak up or down from there . or sometimes its set the high e and b to where i'm happy and then work from there i should shay i'm using 10's or 10.5s on the e and about 13's or 14's on the b (yet i like 9.5s on les pauls?)
It's not for everyone but it works for me
|
|
|
Post by Leftee on Mar 15, 2021 16:58:47 GMT -5
If I do it’s accidental.
|
|
|
Post by Auf Kiltre on Mar 15, 2021 17:32:13 GMT -5
I will say that I've been told a couple times by a trusted luthier that my nut slots were slightly lower than spec, but I actually like it that way so long as nothing's buzzing. It seems to help my intonation at the first few frets due to my monkey grip.
|
|
sirWheat
Wholenote
For a better future, play Stevie Wonder for your children.
Posts: 314
|
Post by sirWheat on Mar 15, 2021 17:57:20 GMT -5
I set my guitars up to the same specs as a rule. Overall string height moves around sometimes but nut slots are always the same, radius matches the neck. You can go pretty low with the slots without any real noticeable issues unless you do a lot of bending in the cowboy chord area.
I've never looked at the Fender specs before. Lower than I like on the bass side, a little higher than I like on the treble side.
|
|
|
Post by Seldom Seen on Mar 15, 2021 18:46:24 GMT -5
My short answer is "yes" but only as a starting point. I spent years sticking to factory specs but eventually, as my knowledge and playing skills advanced, I learned to trust my ears and my hands above all else. BTW, that's a somewhat difficult achievement for an engineer.
|
|
|
Post by Auf Kiltre on Mar 15, 2021 18:46:57 GMT -5
I think this was the first time I've ever set neck relief using an actual feeler gauge. My discovery was that eyeballing it using the string/tap method was more relief than spec.
There are a lot of variable equations in the whole process, really. Setting intonation for one. Just how much pressure should one use on note/harmonic comparison? That's where personal playing style really changes the equation.
|
|
|
Post by funkykikuchiyo on Mar 15, 2021 18:49:28 GMT -5
Nah, I rarely even know what factory specs are for any given guitar.
Occasionally we'll get someone in our shop that insists they want it set to factory specs, and we usually gently tell them "we can do better than that". Factory specs aren't them saying "this is the ideal setup and it will play great" it is them saying "this is where it needs to be to make it out the door, and will be adequate hanging on a music store wall". They also want something where the tolerances have elbow room, or else they're spending money in the final setup department they don't want to spend.
If I'm not given any further setup specs, I generally set the neck pretty straight, radius matching the fingerboard, nut slots low so they buzz a little less than the 1st fret, and the high E about halfway between the 3/64" line and the 1/16" line, and the low E just below the 5/64" line. I will readjust saddles to taste, but almost never any other aspect - rare exceptions for nuts, especially for slide players. I'm not sure where Fender likes pickup heights, but I know the Gibson spec is consistently too high and messes with intonation.
|
|
|
Post by Auf Kiltre on Mar 15, 2021 19:22:57 GMT -5
"I'm not sure where Fender likes pickup heights, but I know the Gibson spec is consistently too high and messes with intonation"
For vintage style Strat pickups the height recommendation is 6/64 (3/32 for simpletons like me) on bass side, last fret depressed, 5/64 on treble. That worked for me.
I recall an old bandmate that had a real 59 Les Paul being an advocate for tearing off the bucker covers and setting the pickups as close as possible to the strings. I actually set my humbuckers pretty high and don't seem to have the issues like Fender Stratitus.
|
|
|
Post by funkykikuchiyo on Mar 16, 2021 8:30:11 GMT -5
Admittedly, I think I am more fussy about magnetic pull string interference than the average person. Maybe the Gibson pickups pull a little harder than the average pickup? Hard to say.
|
|
DrKev
Wholenote
It's just a guitar, it's not rocket science.
Posts: 405
|
Post by DrKev on Mar 16, 2021 20:58:00 GMT -5
80% of my clients are delighted when I hand them a guitar or bass set to Fender factory spec, nothing further to be done. At the very least it's a great starting point, for all instruments of any brand. I use the DiMarzio specifications as a guide for pickup height.
|
|
|
Post by Auf Kiltre on Mar 17, 2021 10:30:22 GMT -5
At the very least it's a great starting point Yep, at least for me as it relates to vintage specs (7.25 radius, vintage style pickups, etc.). I have a H-H Strat with a compound 10-16 radius Warmoth neck that is setup obscenely low, but it plays clean. It's nice to have variations. If I were to dash into my burning house to rescue one guitar though, it'd probably be a Strat with those funny little frets, 7.25 radius and slightly vee'd neck profile. I just feel at home playing those specs.
|
|
|
Post by Seldom Seen on Mar 17, 2021 14:13:31 GMT -5
Admittedly, I think I am more fussy about magnetic pull string interference than the average person. Maybe the Gibson pickups pull a little harder than the average pickup? Hard to say. I couldn’t really play my R0 LP until, after years of struggling with it, I lowered the pickups to well below factory specs. That’s when I really “discovered” a manageable LP. I’m a bit of a heavy hitter. I promptly did the same for all of my Humbucker-equipped guitars.
|
|
sirWheat
Wholenote
For a better future, play Stevie Wonder for your children.
Posts: 314
|
Post by sirWheat on Mar 17, 2021 17:09:25 GMT -5
I thought that the traditional single-coils had a stronger magnetic pull...
|
|
|
Post by funkykikuchiyo on Mar 18, 2021 8:43:11 GMT -5
I thought that the traditional single-coils had a stronger magnetic pull...
They definitely do, but almost every pickup has it to some extent. Humbuckers are a bit sneaky because the sound of the pull isn't as recognizable as the strat-itis but it is still there. I don't have a flux meter so I can't confirm, but I suspect it is just a group of humbuckers that have particularly strong magnets.
Pickups that have the magnetic film (EMGs, Lace Sensors) still have magnetic pull, but the corpus of the pickup will get in the way before the magnetic pull is an audible issue. I've also only occasionally had blade pickups be strong enough to make a difference, and when it did, they were absurdly strong pickups that were just prototypes anyway. I think in that case it is more a matter of vectors. If you think of the flux lines drawn out like in a high school science book, a strat pickup is going to do a lot of pulling straight up and down, humbuckers tend to move more longitudinally along the string length and blades do a similar thing but stay lower down to the pickup, keeping the pull from being too much of a nuisance, but also making it such that you need them really close. It is also why Strat pickups get that unique "pop" sound especially on clean tones, the "spank" as one old co-worker called it, and it is so hard to duplicate on any other pickup design; the coil is going to create a much larger voltage on that up and down rest stroke vibration by sheer design. This is part of why form factor is always the biggest variable in pickup design, and developing pickup style A that sounds like pickup style B is always one of the biggest challenges.
(Spent a couple years prototyping a blade style Strat pickup. I really liked the final result and still have a set in one of my Strats, but never bothered taking it to production.)
|
|
DrKev
Wholenote
It's just a guitar, it's not rocket science.
Posts: 405
|
Post by DrKev on Mar 19, 2021 9:14:57 GMT -5
On this subject I have recently been doing some testing regarding pickup heights and have found something interesting. Long before string pull starts affecting the quality of a note, the pickups are pulling the strings out of tune. Obviously this gets worse as we go up the neck and string-pickup distance decreases. The consequences are that pickup height effects intonation up and down the neck long before we hear obvious problems or approach the maximum heights recommended by pickup manufacturers.
With a decently accurate tuner this is easy to test - place a capo in the 12th fret, tune string to pitch, pluck the low E string, change pickup height while the string is ringing and and watch the tuner needle.
My ideas around pickup height adjustment are in flux (excuse the magnetic pun).
|
|
|
Post by Peegoo 🏁 on Mar 19, 2021 10:11:02 GMT -5
I don't follow any published specs, but I usually always start from the same place--namely .012" relief at the 8th fret (neck relief), 5/64" action (string height over the 12th fret), and .020" nut action (string height over the first fret) for all strings. I tweak from there. One thing that helps speed this up is a thickness gauge set consisting of only two leaves: .012" and .020". I took these from a larger set I got at my local auto parts shop and screwed them together. It precludes having to fish through 40 leaves for the ones I want. When those three dimensions are tweaked, I move to pickup height for good tone and response. Then I do intonation. The guitar rests for a day or two, and I go back and check relief, string action, nut action, and intonation. This is mostly for my own guitars. The only time I use the full set of gauges is when a player tells me they want guitar B set up just like guitar A. I measure guitar A and that's my target geometry ffor guitar B.
|
|
|
Post by Pinetree on Mar 20, 2021 22:01:46 GMT -5
Pretty much, but 4/64th on both the treble and bass sides of the 12th fret.
|
|
|
Post by funkykikuchiyo on Mar 21, 2021 9:42:33 GMT -5
Another thought struck me. If you're measuring action height with a ruler and want it to be consistent with any other readings you NEED to get a decent ruler. Cheap rulers will be reasonably accurate from line to line, but how the ends are ground down is what separates the cheap ones from the nice ones. The old trick of starting at the 1 inch line and going from there doesn't work so hot when you need to butt a ruler up to the fret. If you're just trying to duplicate success from one of your own guitars to another, then it really doesn't matter. You can use an old drinking straw if you want.
I have a 6" Starrett ruler that cost close to $30 and felt like a rip off at the time, but would buy another one again in a heartbeat. I have several cheap ones that are useless for guitar work. PEC and Mitutoyo are good brands too, as well as certain vintages of Brown & Sharp. I worked for an unnamed manufacturer and found that using the Stew-Mac rulers (the rectangle ones, I forget their name for it) worked well for production. Our parts/tools supplier found a generic one on Amazon, and it was comically out of synch from the Stew-Mac one. It was like "inch" meant totally different things.
Regulars here probably know this already, so I'm likely wasting my breath. It just seemed important to bring up if people are comparing measurements down to about 1/128".
|
|
DrKev
Wholenote
It's just a guitar, it's not rocket science.
Posts: 405
|
Post by DrKev on Mar 21, 2021 12:15:25 GMT -5
I worked for an unnamed manufacturer and found that using the Stew-Mac rulers (the rectangle ones, I forget their name for it) worked well for production. Our parts/tools supplier found a generic one on Amazon, and it was comically out of synch from the Stew-Mac one. It was like "inch" meant totally different things. Regulars here probably know this already, so I'm likely wasting my breath. It just seemed important to bring up if people are comparing measurements down to about 1/128". Yes, I found that with string action gauges. (the big rectangles). I bought a cheapish one on amazon that was very poor at first but luckily had excess material on the measuring edge so I could grind it back to accuracy. Then I bought the D'Addario string action gauge and it was perfect right away. As you said Funky, if you're just want consistency with your own guitars you can use a drinking straw. As soon as you want to reproduce other people's measurements or share yours with other people, cheap rules definitely do not rule.
|
|
|
Post by pcalu on Mar 29, 2021 18:33:47 GMT -5
Yes...
For years I did my set up all by feel. Ran across Balmer’s “The Fender Telecaster Handbook”.
What I found is ... What I like is very close to Fender Specs
|
|
|
Post by LTB on Mar 29, 2021 21:06:23 GMT -5
Short answer No,
Depends on the guitar. I just set for feel I'm no expert but i no what i don't like the feel of
If it's comfortable i'll play the guitar . if it isn't then i'll change it
whatever feels comfortable under the hand i try not to overthink it [
Same here. I set it up to what feels and plays right. I adjust pickups low then raise to taste in tone if electric
|
|
Wrnchbndr
Wholenote
Posts: 353
Formerly Known As: WRNCHBNDR
|
Post by Wrnchbndr on May 1, 2021 22:38:09 GMT -5
Measurement devices are for people who don’t understand what they are doing.
A guitar string is a perfect straight line. You don’t need anything else.
|
|
Wrnchbndr
Wholenote
Posts: 353
Formerly Known As: WRNCHBNDR
|
Post by Wrnchbndr on May 1, 2021 22:43:02 GMT -5
The specifications are actually only valuable for warranty claims. If the guitar will not play clean notes when adjusted to specifications, it is a flaw that requires work. Simply playing okay when adjusted to specifications is not an indication that it plays well but rather that it will function. There are many player however that play exceedingly well regardless.
|
|