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Post by ninworks on May 2, 2021 6:59:09 GMT -5
I just had a drummer friend, who lives in Japan, send me 11 songs he needs guitar parts written for and recorded. He's a drummer I played in an all original band with for a couple years back in the late 70's. He also plays keys and sings. I have my work cut out for me.
Some of the songs are just drums, bass, and organ. Some are entire band arrangements that he only needs solos for and some, sound finished to me and I don't know what I'm going to be able to add to them. It's a good project for me to put my guitar player hat back on and figure out what I'm going to do. I haven't had to do anything of this scale in a long time. I'm going to have to restring my Les Paul. I'm going to need it and the strings sound like there's a towel wrapped around the neck.
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Post by FlyonNylon on May 2, 2021 9:19:02 GMT -5
Wow yeah that sounds like a lot of work. Hope you like the genre.
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Post by ninworks on May 2, 2021 10:07:38 GMT -5
Most of it is classic prog or semi-prog. Right up my alley. I just wish he would hire a singer. For him being such a great drummer his sense of vocal phrasing and rhythm is terrible. That's okay. He releases an album or two every year in Japan and gets reviewed rather favorably by a few music industry magazines there. It never hurts to get your name out there in the public eye even if it's in Japan. He often uses world renowned players on his projects so that generates some publicity all by itself.
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Post by Auf Kiltre on May 2, 2021 11:12:00 GMT -5
Have fun, sounds like a good challenge if you feel like you need to sharpen your guitar chops.
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Post by rickyguitar on May 2, 2021 20:24:57 GMT -5
Sounds like fun
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Post by ninworks on May 29, 2021 11:27:53 GMT -5
The list was reduced to 10. He dropped 2 from the original list and added a different one. I have 5 completed. Finished another one yesterday. Most are averaging about 5 recorded tracks per song. Not all are always playing at the same time. I tend to put verses on one track, choruses on another, bridge on another, and solos separate. Sometimes there are multiple tracks playing simultaneously. I added 9 different tracks to one of the songs. He emailed me rough stereo .mp3 mixes to use as a source to overdub to, mostly. There are a couple that are the complete session files with all the hi-res audio track files. I record the tracks in hi-res .wav files, zip them all together, and upload that file to Dropbox so he can download and import them to the session in his DAW. I have done this with many different projects in the UK, Austria, Spain, many in Italy, Brazil, and Canada, as well as different states all over the USA. I would have never thought I would do recording for people all over the world when I was younger. The internet has made that possible from meeting the clients to transferring the media back and forth. One of the best things is that I have access to use everything I have and don't have to go anywhere or move any gear other than maybe get a different guitar, cable, or microphone from the closet. I do miss recording in commercial studios. That environment really appeals to me. I haven't done any of that in decades. I miss the smell of hot tubes and electronics that permeate real studios. I also miss the collaboration factor working with other people in the room. I DON'T miss having to get the tracks down in a regimented amount of time. I spend a lot more time on them now but the final results are better IMO. I have time to scrutinize my efforts, I can work when I want, and in my underwear if I want to. Not that I would EVER do that. I always spend way more time on the projects than I feel I should. Sometimes I have to play through them for hours before I develop guitar parts I am happy with. I could, and sometimes do, record them in little sections then piece them all together but that's not my typical approach. It is my opinion that for as long as I have been playing and as much experience as I have I SHOULD be able to play and record each section in one uninterrupted pass. No matter what the complexity level is. If it's so complex I can't play it then I need to simplify or rethink what I'm doing. I think the tracks sound better that way as well. I guess that's due to all my years working with analog tape. As a result of that I sometimes spend hours rehearsing a part after I have figured out to play before I ever hit the record button. Mostly to make it as effective as I can. If I were working with someone else I would do it faster but my opinion about what I play would not be as favorable unless it's a pretty simple part. I have come to realize there is not really such a thing as a 'simple' part. It's all about getting all the inflections right so it adds to the groove and attitude of the music. Gotta get the feel right. Some things take far less time than others. If there's a bazillion notes flying by at 170BPM nobody will notice if a couple are missing or not played perfectly. If there is empty space involved between the notes then everybody notices if there is something wrong. I'm not going to be THAT guy. Orchestrating music using guitars is fun but a lot of work. Some of the section changes in these songs are a little abrupt so I'm making an attempt to set them up before they arrive so they flow into each other more smoothly. I feel bad for any single guitar player who has to perform some of these songs live because there are some things that a single player won't be able to do without seriously compromising. Two guitarists in the band could pull it off but even that would be difficult with some of them. I'm taking a day off today. Been going at it hard and putting in 12 hour days for the last 3 days. If it's not too wet after yesterday's rain I'll mow my yard. That's a zen thing to do.
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Post by Auf Kiltre on May 29, 2021 12:10:44 GMT -5
"I miss the smell of hot tubes and electronics that permeate real studios"
I was a teenager when me and my bandmates tossed together a small budget to record a 45. We went to a place called Sound Patterns in Michigan, run and engineered by a guy named Danny Dallas who I recall did the early MC5 stuff. He was a cigar chomppin'dude that liked to say stuff like "righty-oh". The smell of the studio reminded me of an old library, but with a more exotic mixture of smoke and alcohol. I immediately fell in love with the inside of studios and if I could pick an era/dream job it'd be a studio cat in its heydey. I regret not being more disciplined and assertive in my younger days, instead of jamming in the basement with my buds while expecting euphoric results.
Anyway, sounds like fun. I often feel like I've miniaturized myself and piloted an exploratory submarine into the minutiae of the projects at hand. It can be a fun ride, even if no one else can understand it.
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Post by Peegoo 🏁 on May 31, 2021 11:11:44 GMT -5
Sounds like a great opportunity to get your name into the mix over there. I do miss recording in commercial studios. That environment really appeals to me. There is plenty to love about creating music in real time as part of an ensemble. Even with the little goofs, etc., the energy in the room sometimes makes it onto the recording and you get some wonderful stuff. The record business (and technology) is so vastly different these days, it's just too expensive to maintain studios in the numbers that used to exist. The hired guns I know don't set foot in a studio; they do it all at home.
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Post by ninworks on May 31, 2021 12:36:16 GMT -5
Sounds like a great opportunity to get your name into the mix over there. I do miss recording in commercial studios. That environment really appeals to me. There is plenty to love about creating music in real time as part of an ensemble. Even with the little goofs, etc., the energy in the room sometimes makes it onto the recording and you get some wonderful stuff. The record business (and technology) is so vastly different these days, it's just too expensive to maintain studios in the numbers that used to exist. The hired guns I know don't set foot in a studio; they do it all at home. The major studios are a better value than they used to be but are still expensive to utilize. I don't see how they can stay in business for the rates they charge. Blackbird Studios in Nashville is one of the best studios in the USA. They charge $90 per hour and the engineer is included. They have to pay the engineer, the maintenance tech, the receptionist, utilities, rent/mortgage, insurance, taxes etc. and the owner needs to make something too. Not to mention the sizeable initial financial outlay for the gear and construction of the facility. Back when I was coming up, to rent a studio of that stature would cost $200 per hour and they all went out of business. I don't know how they do it for less than half that at today's prices. Technology has gotten so good and affordable anyone can record world-class audio at home if they have the knowledge and experience to do so. The thing the big studios have, other than the gear and people who are experts at using it, are multiple, different, excellent sounding rooms to record in. That is HUGE when recording. A great room to record in adds to the recorded sound tremendously. Not to mention the control rooms are acoustically tuned to perfection so what you hear coming through the speakers is the actual sound of the recording.
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Post by ninworks on Jun 9, 2021 6:26:45 GMT -5
UPDATE: I'm 7 songs into the project. 6 completed. I worked on the 7th one all day yesterday. The arrangement and structure on this one are so sporadic and busy that I'm having a hard time coming up with parts that fit and contribute. The melody rhythms and vocal performance are incredibly awful. It's just a scratch vocal but it will need to be entirely rewritten to be anywhere near decent. The lyrics sound like they were written by a sewage plumber. No offense if there are any plumbers here. My point is that they don't sound like they were written by a musician and songwriter. Just because words rhyme doesn't mean they sing well in succession. It's very awkward sounding and I'm pretty sure it wasn't on purpose. I came up with a good part for the 2 of the verses and constructed a pretty good guitar solo for that section. There are 2 completely different structured chord progressions for the 3 verses which all terminate at the same choruses. ?? A very busy bass riff that parallels the melody during one of the verses. The bridge has some good dynamics but doesn't belong in this song. This song is a real head scratcher for me but I have to do SOMETHING. I think I may just double the bass riff in some of the busy parts just to have something there. Maybe that will spark another idea. I have this feeling anything I do to this one will be intrusive and detract from what's already there, if that's even possible. I'm trying to stay out of the way of the vocal and add rhythmic reinforcement. There may be something good in this song but I'm not seeing it. Hopefully this guy will realize it and leave it off the album. You've all heard of polishing a turd. I'm not sure that's even possible when dealing with diarrhea. There may be a guitar player out there somewhere who can write something that works for all of the sections in this song where it flows better. I'm starting to question my abilities. I've never had a project I couldn't come up with something that made the end result better but GEEEEEESE, this one is giving me fits. I just have to keep throwing stuff at it to see if I can find something that sticks and doesn't slide into the toilet with the rest of it. I hope the 3 remaining songs don't give me this much grief. Most of the other songs turned out okay but OMG it takes me a long time to come up with the parts and record them.
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Post by Auf Kiltre on Jun 9, 2021 7:13:27 GMT -5
"You've all heard of polishing a turd. I'm not sure that's even possible when dealing with diarrhea."
Lol, like the extension to the simile.
Maybe you're being too hard on yourself. You've been away from it all for a while, right? But if you don't have enthusiasm for any of the particular tunes then maybe its not your issue. No Muse ever whisks through and says "ooooh,...diarrhea!". 🤣
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Post by ninworks on Jun 9, 2021 12:02:10 GMT -5
Maybe you're being too hard on yourself. You've been away from it all for a while, right? But if you don't have enthusiasm for any of the particular tunes then maybe its not your issue. I'm supposedly a 'professional' and as such my personal like or dislike shouldn't enter into it. Yes, it has been a number of years since I did anything of this magnitude so I'm taking that into account for the time it's taking but throwing 13 hours at something and only getting tracks for about 2 minutes of a 4 minute song is ridiculous to me. That's what I get for getting selfish and only working on my stuff and things that I like from other friends of mine for the last 10 or 15 years. It made me lazy and very picky. I have no problem with picky but lazy is unacceptable. I need to step up and do it more often. My musical-guitar-playing-brain is getting foggy and out of practice. It takes me longer to find things than it used to. I still seem to do okay with guitar solos but other parts, not as much. My only problem with guitar solos is I always hear things in my head that are harder to play than my fingers can do easily so I have to work on them until I can execute them with the appropriate nuances to get the feel right. Having not gigged regularly for the last 20 years has really stifled that ability. I have more technical ability than I have ever had but I don't have the instantaneous polish that gigging all the time provides. I miss that but not enough to go out looking for a gig in a band that plays 4 or 5 nights a week to fix it. I just need to play more.
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Post by Auf Kiltre on Jun 9, 2021 13:11:24 GMT -5
When I first started recording my own stuff I was more "linear" in my guitar work. By that I mean I'd settle on off the cuff solos and most of the time it'd show ("sounds like wanking to me"). It takes me a long time to conseptualize something that I end up settling on. If I had to make a living doing this stuff I'd probably make 25c an hour, lol. I'm happy to work at my own pace these days.
Best of luck with your endeavors Ken. Hopefully you find a momentum that brings you satisfaction.
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Post by ninworks on Jun 9, 2021 15:09:50 GMT -5
I'll get it eventually. I always do. I just needed to vent a little. I could spit out stuff quickly but it wouldn't be to my satisfaction and wouldn't do the music justice as far as I'm concerned. Someone else probably wouldn't scrutinize it as closely as I do. Since the guy I'm working for usually gets reviewed in trade magazines and works with some big names sometimes I want to put my best work out there. Even if the material sux I need to sound good.
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Post by ninworks on Jun 11, 2021 23:26:13 GMT -5
I found all the parts I needed and finished the song today. I put 8 separate track of guitars on this song. I think the remedy to the type of dilemma I had with this one is to just get started. However, I started on this one 4 days ago and spent most of 3 days working on it. I had to figure out and double a long cyclical bass riff that covered 12 bars and never repeated the same pattern twice throughout it's entire 12 bar cycle. To add to the difficulty of doing that it was a riff written on a keyboard by a keyboard player. Lots of 4th 5th and 6th intervals which required multiple string skips and screwy picking patterns.
I decided that since I had been having problems with that song I would switch and play a different guitar today and see if that sparked anything. That must have worked because I finished it today. It turned out a lot better than I thought it would. I would post it but it's not my song and still has a scratch vocal. I have to respect the artist. I wouldn't want someone posting something of mine that wasn't completed without my permission.
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Post by ninworks on Jul 19, 2021 6:58:05 GMT -5
I finally finished recording the guitars for my friend in Japan's album project yesterday. I took a few weeks off to take care of some projects I needed to do. I saved the song I disliked the most for last. It turned out a lot better than I expected but I had to do it twice. I did it twice before I found an arrangement I was satisfied with.
I usually save any guitar solos for last so I can have all the other parts to play off of when constructing the solo. Sometimes I'll hear a solo line early on and put it down then but that's not the norm. On the first arrangement I got to the parts with the solos and I couldn't find anything I liked so I shelved it for a few days and went back to it. Still couldn't get into the zone. That's when I decided to start over on the entire song. After I changed some parts around I got to the solos. They fell right into place that time. The client, my friend, really liked it so the project is done.
He said he has a new one in the works and will be starting on it sometime in the fall and he wants me to play on it as well. Fall will be a better time for me. My home maintenance work load decreases considerably during the cold months so I'll have more time to work on the project.
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Post by Auf Kiltre on Jul 19, 2021 7:44:50 GMT -5
So I assume you're sending raw tracks and your friend is doing the mixing/mastering? That would be a weird one for me since whenever I proclaim the session work "finished" I spend the next month mixing song v.1 to v.30.
Glad you're please with the results, its always a good feeling to call it a wrap with a positive evaluation.
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Post by ninworks on Jul 19, 2021 8:51:59 GMT -5
So I assume you're sending raw tracks and your friend is doing the mixing/mastering? That would be a weird one for me since whenever I proclaim the session work "finished" I spend the next month mixing song v.1 to v.30. Glad you're please with the results, its always a good feeling to call it a wrap with a positive evaluation. Yes, I just send him the hi-res tracks and he takes it from there. He has a very good mixer he works with. Everything I have heard that he does is sonically done very well. I don't necessarily agree with all his balance decisions but it's their project and they can do whatever they want. I have no problem with that. At least my buddy hired a better singer than him doing the vocals himself. The singer he is using is much better than he is but still not great. I am really spoiled when it comes to singers after working with some really exceptional ones for most of my career. That kind of makes me cringe when I hear one that doesn't just blow the doors off. That really makes me skeptical when I have to sing one myself because my vocal abilities can't live up to my own expectations. Background vocals are my specialty. Those I can do. I do lead vocals out of necessity. Not because I am good at it.
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Post by ninworks on Sept 2, 2021 6:26:45 GMT -5
I recorded rhythm guitar tracks for the drummer in Japan again yesterday. He sent me a song that he had Fernando Perdomo play lead guitars on. It needed rhythm guitar to help fill out the arrangement. Fernando is a pretty well known guitar player in the prog genre. He records and tours with Dave Kersner and does many other projects. He is a good player but I have never warmed up to his style. Mostly pentatonic stuff with an extra note thrown in here and there. To me, he doesn't seem to have a very good sense of melody in his lead playing bit I have to give him credit for being in the trenches and doing it.
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Post by Auf Kiltre on Sept 2, 2021 8:29:54 GMT -5
Cool! Maybe you could ask him to send a mix without the lead guitar and put something down as an alternate to the other player's track.
"Mostly pentatonic stuff with an extra note thrown in here and there."
Hey hey now, don't go giving trade secrets away, lol. That flatted fifth is the secret sauce!
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Post by ninworks on Sept 2, 2021 8:50:15 GMT -5
Cool! Maybe you could ask him to send a mix without the lead guitar and put something down as an alternate to the other player's track. It's not important to me. My buddy has good enough ears to hear the difference but even if mine were better, he would still use Fernando's track because he is well known in the industry and as such, in his mind, will add validity to his project. I did a few songs for him on a project about 8 years ago. He used Percy Jones on bass and John Goodsall on guitar, both from the band Brand X. To me, both those guys phoned in their efforts. Their tracks sounded awful but they were used anyway due to who they are. I don't think either of them did more than one take and were watching TV and eating a sandwich while they did it. At least that's how it sounded to me. I thought the tracks I had done for him fit the songs much better but most didn't get used due to their notariety. At least that's what I tell myself. I probably suck but don't tell anybody.
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