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Post by strabo on May 17, 2021 7:19:32 GMT -5
I am an idiot. And no good deed goes unpunished. The next two paragraphs are just scene-setting for these two conclusions, so jump to the fourth paragraph beginning “So I have a ding” if you wish to begin in medias res with my question. A pal of mine was given(!) a brand new, mostly-finished guitar by a pal of his, who is apparently trying to start a business importing guitar parts and assembling, customising and selling guitars in the UK. It's a sort of jazzmaster shape, with what looks like P90-style pickups and a tele-style neck, and as my pal is a nice chap and often comes to gigs in which my band grinds through the same old blues numbers, I said I would set it up for him for free (the nut needs to be cut, quick fret dress, the usual tweaking). Fast forward to me on my day off, basking in self-congratulatory smugness at doing someone a favour because I am truly a decent and generous person. I was working on the neck and, being not only the next best thing to a living saint in my kindness, humanity and selflessness but also a highly responsible worker, the body was stashed in its soft case on a sofa behind me. All was progressing swimmingly, until implausible disaster struck. Somehow, and I could not reproduce this sequence of events if my life depended upon it, I contrived to hit the end of the 18-inch steel ruler I use for checking straightness (which was lying flat and overhanging the edge of the table on which I was working) with sufficient force to send it flying across the room, unerringly hitting the only part of the guitar body that was poking out of the gig bag (just two minutes previously, I had taken the body out to look at the neck pocket, and not replaced it properly back in the bag). The upshot is a ding in an otherwise entirely pristine finish, and I am absolutely mortified. So I have a ding in a sort of off-white finish; can I fix this, and if so, how? Of course, the ruler landed on its sharpest corner, and has made a triangular indentation about a millimetre or so deep at its worst (3/64 inch in freedom units, give or take). The finish has cracked slightly either side of the impact point, but I think most of the actual outer layer of finish (poly? I don’t think it is nitro) is still present. I don’t think it has cut into the wood fibres, but it has squashed them in, so I was wondering if it might be possible to steam the impact point (using the soldering iron/wet cloth trick) to get the fibres to expand a bit and push the finish back out to where it used to be and then magically fix the cracking somehow. Or would the finish melt before this happened? If this is contra-indicated, is there any way of fixing the ding in the finish? Could I fill the hole with superglue and then put a finish on top? Try to find a nail varnish or some such that matches the colour? I don’t know how to post images, but a .jpg can be downloaded here: www.dropbox.com/s/lc714idv6pp4f4t/ding.jpeg?dl=0I feel very foolish at having been so clumsy and stupid, and I would very much appreciate any pointers you might have (bearing in mind what is available in the UK as far as materials are concerned) so I don't end up ruining a guitar for someone whose only mistake was to have any faith in me as someone who should be allowed anywhere near guitars! |
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Post by funkykikuchiyo on May 17, 2021 9:19:53 GMT -5
A touch up to make it disappear will be close to impossible. Whites are very finnicky, and even if you match it perfectly now, a little UV light and time will likely change it down the road. If I thought I could get the iron/wet cloth in there without munging up the finish further, I'd try that. It might not work, but it might work too.
Super glue fixes tend to darken, especially along fractures... not great for touching up white. Stew Mac makes a white super glue that can be blended with the amber to find different shades. Nail polish is another option. Whatever you do I wouldn't hold my breath on it being invisible.
One big wild card is that it is an imported body. What often happens on import instruments is there is a thick coat of clear, then the color is the top coat. I'm not entirely sure why, maybe to keep it from looking too hazy if the clear discolors or something. That means that when you start sanding on these finishes you'll think you have plenty of finish to work with, but it turns into a clear coat very quickly. It doesn't look like that is the case from your picture, but that is just a guess. If you want to test that for sure, I'd find a spot (trem cavity, control cavity, whatever is available on this) and sand it with some find sand paper and see if it keeps its color after digging in a bit. If the color is right on top, it won't take long to figure it out.
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Post by strabo on May 17, 2021 9:39:22 GMT -5
Excellent thoughts all, FK, and many thanks. I suspected the best I could hope for is damage limitation (as it were). It's a very good point about the thickness of the topcoat, I shall do some experimental prospecting somewhere invisible. I shall also try the heat/wet cloth thing in a similarly hidden place to see how the finish takes to it. Ideally I will be able to fill in the void I've created with raised fibres and then it will only be a surface scuff. Would a nail polish fix last?
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Post by funkykikuchiyo on May 18, 2021 9:08:20 GMT -5
I don't see a need to test the heat in an alternate place - if it is wet enough and you aren't too aggressive, it shouldn't be a problem. I think the worst that would happen is some of those frail chips would jog off and not sit in place like you want them to. I don' think you'll bring it up level with the heat, and even a surface scuff can be enough to go through color. I've gone through color going straight to 1000 grit and buffing... but, I suspect it won't be an issue for you.
I only use nail polish to try to get really strange colors you're not going to get elsewhere, and do it rarely. I am sure it would last, but the color/texture will age differently than the finish, and it may look a bit different over the years. But, by the time it is old enough for that to happen, it'll likely have some other more mild battle scars and won't be an issue. If it was me, I'd grab two or three shades of white so I can try mixing them in different proportions to get as close as I can.
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Post by Leftee on May 18, 2021 10:02:54 GMT -5
I have nothing useful to add other than you must be my long-lost twin brother from a different mother.
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Post by Larry Madsen on May 18, 2021 10:28:47 GMT -5
Short story from my past ... still in high school actually.
I had just painted my 1967 Camaro SS350. Yellow with gold pearl top coat.
I came out to my car one day to find a cigarette burn in the top of the fender next to the hood.
I was pretty darn unhappy with the situation.
A buddy of mine, a fairly accomplished artist for our age looked at the caterpillar like burn and said, let me turn it into a butterfly.
He painted a nice little butterfly over the ugly burn. That butterfly was there for as long as I owned the car.
I have no idea how that pertains to your scratch. 😋
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Post by strabo on May 18, 2021 11:42:16 GMT -5
Is it my terminal klutziness or beatific saintliness that is so familiar, Leftee? Either way I shall take it as a compliment as I would be in august company (and I'm a lefty too, despite playing right-handed).
And I like the butterfly idea as well - it reminds of those astonishing (and incredibly creative!) tattoos that people get when they have anything from a big ol' operation scar to a tiny mole and incorporate it into the design. This said, I'm not sure how this chap would take it if I handed the guitar back and announced 'I've cut the nut, dressed the frets and set it up. Oh, and I've dredged a scale model of the Suez Canal into the front and painted the rest exactly like Clapton's 'The Fool', no charge'.....
I am working up the courage to do the soldering iron/cloth thing, and where I live in London (Straight Outta Acton, W3) has a load of nail bars, so I might go and ask if they have a selection of colours (or can even colour match a sample, like getting paint mixed at a DIY place!). I shall try to be as minimally invasive as possible and hope to cover up the worst of my carnage.
I just feel stupid, more than anything - this is what you get for trying to do something nice for someone, and I feel mortified as the first ding is always the worst
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Post by funkykikuchiyo on May 18, 2021 18:58:45 GMT -5
If the iron makes you nervous, you could probably skip it. The ding won't change in length or width, only depth so it is of limited help. The only help it might offer is bolstering up some of the native chips, but that is a best case scenario. I'd try it but I'm also used to do it all the time and it is worth a shot, it wouldn't be because I had high hopes.
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Post by strabo on May 19, 2021 3:04:00 GMT -5
I shall screw my courage to the sticking place (peotry, shagbag, for all you Nigel Molesworth fans) and try the iron.
Bolstering up the native chips is exactly what I am hoping for, with a best-case scenario that this will slightly close up the cracks running parallel on either side of the impact site as the fibres expand and the sides of the triangular dent rise and re-align with the plane of the body surface; and then fill in the gaps/cracks somehow with carefully applied nail varnish in a kintsugi-style covering that will leave as much of the native finish visible as possible. I don't suppose it will look much nicer than the hastily papered-over cracks it will be, but I shall certainly report back, with many thanks for suggestions!
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Post by Peegoo 🏁 on May 19, 2021 6:29:34 GMT -5
The thing about clearcoats over color is they really complicate a drop fill because they create a shadow line, due to how the sides of the color fill meet the clear in a vertical manner. Even if the drop fill is identical in color and formula to the original color, it can be impossible to make an invisible repair. This shows why:  This type of damage to the finish is extremely problematic to repair from a "spot repair" perspective. |
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Post by strabo on May 19, 2021 12:28:16 GMT -5
That is admirably clear (no pun intended..), Peegoo, many thanks. I have resigned myself to not being able to fix this 100% and am ideally just hoping to move from Grand Canyon to cracked dry riverbed territory, although I suspect it will be closer to some sort of U-shaped valley...
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Post by Peegoo 🏁 on May 19, 2021 12:55:51 GMT -5
Strabo, I've been a guitar tech and builder for more than 35 years and am here to say I have had a few disasters. Matter of fact, I had one yesterday, pulling a knob from a Les Paul. Simple job, right? How many ways can that go wrong? I don't know the actual total, but I do know one. That is not an output jack. Shiznit!  In your case, I would inform the owner of your goof and spring for an identical replacement body. You get the benefit of the lesson AND a body you can practice a spot repair on. Or a complete re-fin. The owner gets back the same thing they delivered to you. Always be completely forthright with your clients. |
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Post by Leftee on May 19, 2021 13:00:07 GMT -5
Is that a no-load pot now?
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Post by Peegoo 🏁 on May 19, 2021 13:06:46 GMT -5
I think the teknikel term is "no-go."
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Post by funkykikuchiyo on May 20, 2021 10:10:15 GMT -5
Yeah, little things like that are sobering. Everything you do to an instrument involves some liability, even changing knobs. A good caution to anyone who wants to go pro... you need to have a skill set beyond whatever jobs you're doing. If you're just changing knobs, you need to also be able to change pots for these sorts of occasions. A good case for switching the entire industry to set screw/solid shaft knobs and pots, too.
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Post by strabo on May 21, 2021 7:41:17 GMT -5
Yes, and I think Peegoo's point is a fundamental one - you should hand something back improved, or at least no worse, but certainly not harmed. I shall investigate getting hold of a replacement body and call it a lesson learned. I guess this is why professionals have professional insurance...
On a side note, and sorry if this is covered elsewhere; I had a look in the Help section and got this far: for adding pictures, I have discovered the "Insert image" button but it seems to be only for URLs, so does a picture have to be online first before you can insert it or can you share a picture directly from your computer?
[deleted a double post above]
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Post by Leftee on May 21, 2021 8:58:48 GMT -5
Pictures have to be unloaded to some sort of hosting site.
To your earlier question… we’re related due to the unerring ability to damage something against all odds. 🤪
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Bopper
Wholenote
Motor City USA
Posts: 504
Age: 72
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Post by Bopper on May 21, 2021 8:59:01 GMT -5
Here's a discussion about posting pictures. I do what Peegoo says in the 4th post.
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Post by Peegoo 🏁 on May 21, 2021 10:29:43 GMT -5
Upload an image? I'm still looking for the front door to this joint!  |
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Post by strabo on May 26, 2021 12:41:41 GMT -5
I have 'fessed up, a new body is on its way, and I continue to curse my ineptitude. Predictably, the chap in question would not hear of a replacement body, but I had already ordered it (in anticipation of precisely that reaction...) so he will get a nice, shiny guitar back.
Confession having unburdened the soul, I have also had at the ding with a soldering iron, a damp J-cloth and a new-found sense of adventure, and the results have been almost entirely positive. Working tentatively, I dabbed away at the gouge, first with the tip of the iron, and then the side of the tip for greater heat, and was cheered to see that the wood fibres rose as expected, pushing the fragments of top layer finish into something at least approximating to their original position. A channel still remained, but it was far shallower than previously,. There is an area in the middle where the finish had been completely destroyed (so restoring the wood fibers and pushing up the side of the impact zone alone was never going to fix the ding completely) but an unexpected benefit was that the finish (which I presume is poly) also became ever so slightly malleable (and, to a lesser extent, ductile) with the application of heat/steam, and I found I got good results from applying judicious pressure via the side of the tip of a clean X-Acto blade; this closed up the cracks/gaps a little and I was also able to massage the surrounding edges of the traumatised area towards the centre a little, with no appreciable damage, which made the actual ding zone (I believe this is the technical term) a little smaller.
instructions regarding image hosting received with thanks - I shall inwardly digest and then try to post images of progress so far. I have also conducted the first reconnaissance mission for nail polish...
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