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Post by Auf Kiltre on Jun 3, 2021 7:19:23 GMT -5
I have a ton of XLR cables, some goobered up with duct tape and scribbling from the 70's to more recent ones that came along with microphone purchases, etc. I generally use the shortest cable possible. But I don't have any fancy Mogami types. Do you hear a difference? Worth it?
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Post by ninworks on Jun 3, 2021 8:21:33 GMT -5
It's worth it to me. I can hear a difference on long runs. 30 feet or more.
When my buddy and I built our first recording studio we didn't have the funds for using quality cabling so we used whatever was available. A few years later we rewired the entire place with Mogami cable and the difference was astounding. It didn't really change the frequency spectrum but it certainly made a huge difference in the transparency of the sound. The separation of the sounds was much more noticeable. Everything was clearer. I noticed it the most on vocals and acoustic guitars but it had an impact on everything.
I would recommend having at least one high quality mic cable. If you don't need a long run get one 25' cable, take a couple XLR jacks from one of your old cables, cut the good one in half and make 2 out of it. I always buy cable in bulk and make my own mic cables anyway. I have gobs of old XLR cables left from my live sound days. Those were bought more for durability than sound quality. I'll still use one in a pinch but don't most of the time.
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Post by Auf Kiltre on Jun 3, 2021 10:25:43 GMT -5
It'd be an interesting experiment to record a tone with the same mic, different cables and and do some spectrum analysis in Sound Forge.
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Post by ninworks on Jun 3, 2021 15:12:38 GMT -5
Use something with some high frequency information for your test. Acoustic guitar and a condenser mic are good candidates. Voice is another good one.
I'm sure you've heard the difference plugging you electric into an amp with a long cable and then using a shorter or better quality cable. It's the same idea. I don't know if you will see a difference in the visual graph of the analysis but if the cables you have been using are not very good you will hear the difference.
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Post by Auf Kiltre on Jun 3, 2021 15:38:00 GMT -5
I went ahead and ordered a 15' Mogami. I rarely ever record multiple mics. I have been pondering a new mic like one of the cheap(er) Ribbon ones from Golden Age, but maybe I need to address everything between my existing mics to my AI first.
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Post by Auf Kiltre on Jun 10, 2021 10:52:56 GMT -5
I got my Mogami cable in and decided to try some sort of experiment. I'm not sure of my scientific process since I'm just a guitar player, but here is what i did. I recorded 2 tracks of equal duration using an E906 Sennheiser picking up a guitar tuner generating an A note. I switched between a Pro Co cable and the Mogami. Mic distance to the sound source remained unchanged. I used my CAD Vocalshield to try and eliminate as much ambient noise as possible.
The first thing I noticed was that the Mogami recorded about 2.5dB quieter than the Pro Co. I don't know if this step in the process was an error but I equaled the RMS power of the 2 files in Sound Forge, then captured their spectrum analysis. Unfortunately I don't have a program that'll over lay the 2 for comparison. Something interesting happening there near 10K. (first pic Mogami, 2nd Pro Co).
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pdf64
Wholenote
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Post by pdf64 on Jun 10, 2021 12:27:09 GMT -5
The 2.5dB differential might be regarded as a fatal flaw in the above comparison, sorry. It should be investigated and resolved, then the test repeating.
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Post by Auf Kiltre on Jun 10, 2021 14:11:38 GMT -5
I figured the difference in dB might be problematic. But making up that difference at the preamp would also introduce a whole new problem, no? Or would it be best to compare the two without any compensation?
Anyway, it was an attempt at a nerdy moment without the right considerations. I did try a vocal punch in on a current project using the same mic, setup and new cable. I found it unusable because there was a big difference in what my ears perceive as added presence.
Not empirical evidence, but notable.
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pdf64
Wholenote
Posts: 556
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Post by pdf64 on Jun 10, 2021 16:03:24 GMT -5
2.5dB is a big difference, my concern is that the new cable has a problem of some sort. Are you sure / have you checked, that it’s wired correctly?
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Post by Auf Kiltre on Jun 10, 2021 16:48:11 GMT -5
Not sure of the process on checking wiring. The test recording I did on a vocal track didn't sound abnormal, just "livelier" as hoped. The 2.5dB difference could have been some error in my process.
Maybe a quick tutorial on checking the wiring?
Thanks for the responses Peter.
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Post by Auf Kiltre on Jun 10, 2021 17:05:23 GMT -5
Doing a continuity test with my multimeter checks out ok (pin 1 to 1, etc.)
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Post by ninworks on Jun 11, 2021 8:51:29 GMT -5
The test recording I did on a vocal track didn't sound abnormal, just "livelier" as hoped. I knew you'd be able to hear the difference. It's considerable. I just ordered a roll of Mogami cable to make some more mic cables from. In the process of setting up my studio this last time I sacrificed my last high quality cable for some of the interconnections between the mic preamps and other gear. I was out of cable at the time and I didn't want to wait for more to come in just so I could finish making all the connections so I cut up my last one. I need to make more cables. I have plenty of XLR plugs I just needed the cable. I found a pretty good deal on it. A 164 foot roll of W2549 for $129. That's about 79 cents per foot. About half price of where I have gotten it before. I can make a 20 foot cable for about $20 and that includes the XLR plugs. The only way to go IMO. Plus, I'll make a couple 10 and 6 footers for when I don't need a longer one. It never hurts to have extra cable. I always seem to find a way to use it up eventually. |
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Post by Auf Kiltre on Jun 11, 2021 9:28:30 GMT -5
Now I'm pondering a Mogami 7 pin XLR for my old Studio Projects TB1 tube mic. Not readily available but a few places reference them as cables for MXL tube mics. I assume the pin assignments on the 7 pin XLR cables are the same.
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Post by ninworks on Jun 11, 2021 9:33:42 GMT -5
7 pin cables are not all the same. Check with the mic manufacturer to get the pinouts.
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Post by Auf Kiltre on Jun 11, 2021 9:59:29 GMT -5
I emailed Mogami support with a pic of the pin assignments from the front of the power supply.
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pdf64
Wholenote
Posts: 556
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Post by pdf64 on Jun 11, 2021 12:47:18 GMT -5
Doing a continuity test with my multimeter checks out ok (pin 1 to 1, etc.) How about checking for shorts? A possible issue with the test / cause of the discrepancy, may be the single tone test freq. Room reflections will cause cancellation and reinforcement effects depending on the relative positions in 3D of the source and the mic. So just a small movement when changing cables might be to blame, if they both check out ok electrically. Pink or white noise may be a better signal type to use for the test. |
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Post by Auf Kiltre on Jun 11, 2021 16:32:56 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure the cable is fine and agree there were multiple possibilities of error on my part. The tuner I used to generate the A note isn't guaranteed to be consistent in volume, could've jogged the mic, etc.
I'm over it now, lol. It was a momentary frivolous science project without the right resources (and logic).
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Post by ninworks on Jun 13, 2021 14:02:19 GMT -5
The roll of Mogami cable was delivered today. As soon as my current album recording project is over I will morph from a guitar player and recording engineer to a mic cable manufacturer.
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Post by Auf Kiltre on Jun 13, 2021 14:20:43 GMT -5
I don't think I've ever done an XLR cable end before. Does their quality/gold plating factor in as well (beyond reliability)?
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Post by ninworks on Jun 13, 2021 14:52:07 GMT -5
IMO the gold plating stuff is strictly marketing. I cannot say for certain because I have never used it but I have read technical white papers about it. Gold plated jacks have been touted for corrosion resistance and superior connections. "Poppychicken!"  Theoretically, okay but, how many times have you ever had a jack or plug corrode to the point there was signal loss?! I still own cables I have had since the mid 70's with connectors that still work as well as they ever did on anything I plug them into. IMO gold plated connectors are just a way to upcharge the consumer. They prey on the inexperienced consumer. Gold won't corrode and as such should be a better connection right?? Audiofiles were the first people they preyed on. I have never experienced any benefit to them. To me it's kind of like having a swimming pool full of gasoline. Which will cause a larger explosion? Lighting it with a spark or a blow torch? It's kind of the same. Either it's burning or it's not. It's either connected or it's not. When it's not the connector being corroded it is, I won't say never but, not likely, the reason. It's either the cable itself, or most often, where the cable is connected to the plug. The only thing to be aware of when soldering an XLR plug to a cable is to make sure all the pin-outs are correct on both cable ends. It's easy to cross them up. There are numbers on the plastic parts of the plugs next to the pins with the pin numbers on it. Get a good flashlight and magnifying glass because they can be hard to see. Also make sure there aren't any strands of the shielding touching anything it's not supposed to. The XLR plugs usually come with a plastic sleeve/insulator that goes inside the housing to keep any stray wires from touching the metal casing. It's not necessary but it's good insurance to have it in there. I always check my connections with a multi meter after I finish them up. Not just to see if pins 1 - 3 on one end are connected to pins 1 - 3 on the other end but, check between pins 1 and 2, pins 2 and 3, and pins 1 and 3 to make sure there aren't any shorts between them from stray wire strands. It's not complicated. This may seem like overkill but I NEVER have a faulty cable when I'm done. If you do that and the solder joints are sound you should have no problems. FYI pin 1 is for the shield, Pin 2 is hot (+), and Pin 3 is reversed signal polarity (-). If you mix them up either your signal polarity at where it terminates will be reversed or the phantom power won't work. |
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Theoretically, okay but, how many times have you ever had a jack or plug corrode to the point there was signal loss?! I still own cables I have had since the mid 70's with connectors that still work as well as they ever did on anything I plug them into. IMO gold plated connectors are just a way to upcharge the consumer. They prey on the inexperienced consumer. Gold won't corrode and as such should be a better connection right?? Audiofiles were the first people they preyed on. I have never experienced any benefit to them. To me it's kind of like having a swimming pool full of gasoline. Which will cause a larger explosion? Lighting it with a spark or a blow torch? It's kind of the same. Either it's burning or it's not. It's either connected or it's not. When it's not the connector being corroded it is, I won't say never but, not likely, the reason. It's either the cable itself, or most often, where the cable is connected to the plug.