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Post by Tinkerer on Feb 2, 2020 14:17:15 GMT -5
I have a Monoprice solid state 40 watt guitar amp that is exactly what I want features wise- light weight, 3 band EQ, spring reverb, and no built in effects. The amp has an effects loop, but I run my pedal board into the input. The amp has a 10" speaker. The amp is inexpensive- $100, so I am assuming that the speaker is marginal quality.
I would appreciate advice about a couple of things:
1.) How much of a difference can the speaker make to the tone of an amp? I've played it for a number of weeks now, and the amp sounds too treble/shrill/spikey to me. Turning the treble down does not get me to what I am looking for - the tone suddenly goes from an incremental change to mud. I added an Danelectro 7 band EQ in the effects loop and cutting a bit at 1.6 and 3.2 kHz helps a lot, but there is still not quite the "depth" to the overall sound that I am looking for. I'm wondering if a speaker upgrade could get me there, and if so, are there any recommendations for speakers where the tone profile is such that the bass is full and warm, and the mids and highs are subtler?
2.) Am I expecting too much from the circuit of an amp that is this inexpensive? For a number of reasons, weight included, I like the idea of a solid state amp and would love it if I could improve the sound of this amp given the way its features line up with what I am looking for. Is this realistic?
Thanks!!
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Post by Leftee on Feb 2, 2020 14:26:01 GMT -5
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Tequila Rob
Wholenote
Posts: 683
Formerly Known As: Guitar Fool
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Post by Tequila Rob on Feb 2, 2020 15:17:22 GMT -5
^^this^^
a word of warning though....speaker swaps can get addicting!...and what may be a holy grail sound in one amp, may not be in another
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Post by Leftee on Feb 2, 2020 15:34:50 GMT -5
^^this^^ a word of warning though....speaker swaps can get addicting!...and what may be a holy grail sound in one amp, may not be in another What he said! |
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Post by Peegoo 🏁 on Feb 2, 2020 16:36:33 GMT -5
It took me a few years to understand that buying an amp and then trying to turn it into something else would be a lot easier and cheaper if I'd spent just a little more $$ and got an amp with the sound I like right out of the gate.
But yeah, I'm still guilty of Tinkering [heh!] with stuff because that is fun too.
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Post by rickyguitar on Feb 2, 2020 17:19:36 GMT -5
Do you have any guitar buddies that might let you try their speakers? You font have to take them out of the cabinet to try them.
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Post by Tinkerer on Feb 2, 2020 18:05:33 GMT -5
Thanks everyone!
I don't have folks I can borrow a 10" speaker from, but what I might try is to run the amp through an Eminence 8 ohm, 12" speaker that I have that came out of a DRRI. If that improves the tone in the direction I'm hoping, I could then modify the amp cab for the speaker to fit, or decide to spring for a 10" speaker. I understand that it is safe to run an 8 ohm speaker in a 4 ohm amp, but at the cost of a bit of output. I don't get this amp beyond 4, so less output would not be an issue. I understand that there are a bunch of variables at play here - 12" vs 10" speaker size, but to Peegoo's point, I do enjoy the tinkering as well!!!!
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McCreed
Halfnote
Posts: 76
Formerly Known As: Mick Reid @ FDP
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Post by McCreed on Feb 2, 2020 19:38:49 GMT -5
I once put three 8" Jensens into a Blues Deluxe*, but don't you dare accuse me of tinkering!
*only because I physically couldn't fit four!!!
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DrKev
Wholenote
It's just a guitar, it's not rocket science.
Posts: 416
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Post by DrKev on Feb 3, 2020 3:40:12 GMT -5
I've been through a few speakers. The differences can be shocking BUT for clean tones we don't hear them that way unless we do before-and-after recordings. Once you add overdrive/distortion the speaker characteristics become hugely important. No two speakers sound the same. There are no rules of thumb. While certain brands have reputations for certain tyoes of sounds, even within brands the differences can be huge. A 10" can have more bass than a 12". A 12" can have more treble than a 10". The most differences are in the midrange where the frequency response curves are most complicated and impossible to guess by eye. All this means that there is *no alternative* to trying a speaker in an amp with all your pedals and find out where it works or not. Having good reference sound to compare to is very useful. Your favorite music, and high quality youtube guitar/amp/pedal demos, can definitely be your friend.
My two cents are as follows...
Jensen Mod 10-50: very warm and bassy, great overdrive sounds, not recommended for the sparkliest cleans but will do well for most clean tone jobs.
Jensen C10Q: Super bright. Not lacking in bass either. The mids are generally scooped. Clean tones can go from sweet to aggressively bright. Distortion can be very nice but compared to other speakers on the market it could very well be a bit too sharp and peaky, or that could be exactly want you want.
Eminence Ragin Cajun 10: I think this is the most versatile 10" on the market. Not as bright as the C10Q but will do great classy clean tones. Has a bluesy warmth and thickness that the C10Q lacks. Overdrive and distortion sounds are fabulous.
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Post by Peegoo 🏁 on Feb 3, 2020 10:15:06 GMT -5
Another good 10" speaker that has a nice balanced tone is the Celestion Gold 10". I have it in two amps and it sounds great.
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Post by Tinkerer on Feb 3, 2020 14:44:38 GMT -5
Thanks for these recommendations everyone!
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Post by Leftee on Feb 3, 2020 15:43:37 GMT -5
Re: the Eminence 105 I recommend.
I like it for several reasons. It has a shallow cone and a big dust cap. It’s not beamy. It’s also an undoped cone. I prefer that. I get a richer tone (whatever the tone of the speaker) if it’s undoped or is lightly doped. It’s hard to describe.
You can find this speaker new and used on Reverb. Used it’s a great way to go.
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Post by Seldom Seen on Feb 5, 2020 18:32:24 GMT -5
Celestion Gold +1
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Wrnchbndr
Wholenote
Posts: 353
Formerly Known As: WRNCHBNDR
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Post by Wrnchbndr on Feb 6, 2020 11:40:23 GMT -5
Totally agree with just about everybody here. Tone will happen. But so much is just a matter of chance. Test drive speakers and cabinets when you can.
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Post by Leftee on Feb 6, 2020 11:50:58 GMT -5
My only concern over the Gold is the cost. Even used it would likely be more expensive than the amp.
But that’s me. We all get to choose for ourselves. 😊
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Post by Tinkerer on Feb 7, 2020 13:00:22 GMT -5
An update - I picked up a Jensen Mod 10-50 and installed it last night. It is an improvement right out of the box and will hopefully only get better as it gets broken in.
Thanks to you all for your recommendations and advice!
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Post by Peegoo 🏁 on Feb 7, 2020 23:24:12 GMT -5
A dead simple way to ensure your speaker expectations are realistic would be to install one of these:  Sorry. Somebody had'ta do it  Many of Radio Shack's larger speakers were made by Utah, which are actually pretty good speakers. |
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Post by LesterPTelestrat on Feb 8, 2020 0:29:10 GMT -5
I like the Eminence Rajin Cajun and for a bit more money the Celestion Gold. Running each of these in different amps. The Celestion is particularly addicting in my 68 Princeton Reverb Custom!
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Post by Peegoo 🏁 on Feb 8, 2020 10:55:46 GMT -5
Ten years ago I found a Celestion Gold 10" for $50 in the used pile at a Guitar Center. And it came with a Peavey Classic 20 tube amp attached to it:  |
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DrKev
Wholenote
It's just a guitar, it's not rocket science.
Posts: 416
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Post by DrKev on Feb 9, 2020 3:51:33 GMT -5
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Post by LTB on Feb 15, 2020 6:07:37 GMT -5
^^this^^ a word of warning though....speaker swaps can get addicting!...and what may be a holy grail sound in one amp, may not be in another And costly. I know, been that route so many times. Finally have soeakers in Bass and Guitar amps I love. (10-12 years layer) |
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Post by modbus on Feb 15, 2020 10:40:43 GMT -5
Ten years ago I found a Celestion Gold 10" for $50 in the used pile at a Guitar Center. And it came with a Peavey Classic 20 tube amp attached to it: You paid 50 bucks for that amp??!?!?!! *faints* |
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Post by LTB on Mar 12, 2020 4:38:23 GMT -5
Thanks everyone! I don't have folks I can borrow a 10" speaker from, but what I might try is to run the amp through an Eminence 8 ohm, 12" speaker that I have that came out of a DRRI. If that improves the tone in the direction I'm hoping, I could then modify the amp cab for the speaker to fit, or decide to spring for a 10" speaker. I understand that it is safe to run an 8 ohm speaker in a 4 ohm amp, but at the cost of a bit of output. I don't get this amp beyond 4, so less output would not be an issue. I understand that there are a bunch of variables at play here - 12" vs 10" speaker size, but to Peegoo's point, I do enjoy the tinkering as well!!!! Understand that playing through an unmounted speaker is not going to give you a realistic impression of how it will sound in a cab. Just won't be as full sounding but I suppose it "might" give you an idea if it is going to be shrill.
I don't know anything about Celestion speakers. The Gold may be a phenomenally good sounding speaker. I do know about the Eminence Legend and Eminence Legend 1258. It is smooth and good sounding with no shrill tones. The 10 inch version is an Eminence 1058
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Post by Tinkerer on Mar 12, 2020 10:04:25 GMT -5
I have an update - I put the Jensen Mod 50 in and while it was an improvement it was still more ice picky than I wanted. I noticed, however, that when I stood off to the side, the amp sounded a whole lot better. That led me to make up a beam blocker by putting some 1" foam into a clamp on microphone pop filter assembly and clamping that to the amp's mic arm right in front of the center of the speaker - that did the trick!!
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Post by LTB on Mar 13, 2020 1:02:13 GMT -5
I have an update - I put the Jensen Mod 50 in and while it was an improvement it was still more ice picky than I wanted. I noticed, however, that when I stood off to the side, the amp sounded a whole lot better. That led me to make up a beam blocker by putting some 1" foam into a clamp on microphone pop filter assembly and clamping that to the amp's mic arm right in front of the center of the speaker - that did the trick!! Check out Ted Weber's Beam Blockers.
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Post by pcalu on Mar 20, 2020 11:45:59 GMT -5
Speakers.
What a rabbit hole speakers are. I've been through my fair share.
I realized when I went down that hole that I like speakers with a definitive character and that doesn't necessarily mean the best speaker available for the amp.
Coming to that realization has saved me lots of money in tone chasing.
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Post by LTB on Apr 5, 2020 2:53:53 GMT -5
I have 2 of the 12" versions (1258) speakers in my Fender Ultimate Stereo Chorus amp. They are very nice sounding! |
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Post by pcalu on Apr 12, 2020 8:18:44 GMT -5
I have 2 of the 12" versions (1258) speakers in my Fender Ultimate Stereo Chorus amp. They are very nice sounding! One of my favorite speakers! The Eminence legend 1258. I have it in several amps. Really works well in a 5e3 and one of the few speakers that equalizes the Clean and Drive channels in a Mod’ed HRD III I have, thus making it a full service amp instead of just a clean pedal platform. Out of the big 4: Sica Jensen C12N, WGS G12C, Weber 12F150 and the EM Legend 1258... I like it the best. Also think I hear a proprietary difference between the Fender OEM version and the actual Blue label Em Legend 1258 coming straight from the EM factory. More smoother in the mids, more articulate etc... |
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Post by LTB on Apr 15, 2020 14:29:36 GMT -5
I have 2 of the 12" versions (1258) speakers in my Fender Ultimate Stereo Chorus amp. They are very nice sounding! One of my favorite speakers! The Eminence legend 1258. I have it in several amps. Really works well in a 5e3 and one of the few speakers that equalizes the Clean and Drive channels in a Mod’ed HRD III I have, thus making it a full service amp instead of just a clean pedal platform. Out of the big 4: Sica Jensen C12N, WGS G12C, Weber 12F150 and the EM Legend 1258... I like it the best. Also think I hear a proprietary difference between the Fender OEM version and the actual Blue label Em Legend 1258 coming straight from the EM factory. More smoother in the mids, more articulate etc... Of the ones you have mentioned I have Heard the Jenson C12N in a mid 60's amp I replaced the speakers in for a friend, plus I have owned a Weber 10F150 (2 of them I had put in a Princeton Stereo Chorus amp I had) and I like the Legend 1258...just a good overall sounding speaker that has clean good lows, mids and smooth highs. |
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Post by Leftee on Apr 15, 2020 14:36:51 GMT -5
I feel that I need to make full disclosure. Since this thread started I’ve become an Eminence dealer.
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