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Post by cedarchoper58 on Aug 8, 2023 18:05:46 GMT -5
im really tired of dealing with a wall voltage fluxuation day to day. one day its 125VAC and my amp sounds great. The next day it can be down to 118VAC and my amp sounds dead and lifeless. its biased at 123.5VAC. i was wondering if any one knows if the brown box will raise your voltage to say around 124VAC when the wall is 118VAC or is it just a voltage lowering device. Can you set it and it will stay at the setting no matter what the wall is? thks
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pdf64
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Post by pdf64 on Aug 9, 2023 6:19:57 GMT -5
“Can you set it and it will stay at the setting no matter what the wall is?”
I don’t think so, that requires really expensive kit.
The idea is to tweak the knob to get the desired voltage on the display.
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Post by Leftee on Aug 9, 2023 6:33:19 GMT -5
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Post by LTB on Aug 9, 2023 9:51:59 GMT -5
Thanks Eric, is your amp a vintage or vintage remake? |
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pdf64
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Post by pdf64 on Aug 9, 2023 10:31:26 GMT -5
The spec on those is 120V +/-5V. Hence I’m not sure he’d be any better off. |
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Post by Leftee on Aug 9, 2023 14:13:25 GMT -5
The spec on those is 120V +/-5V. Hence I’m not sure he’d be any better off. Probably throw more money at the situation and something could be found. |
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Post by Leftee on Aug 9, 2023 14:14:05 GMT -5
Thanks Eric, is your amp a vintage or vintage remake? Vintage. It's a closet classic. Super clean and straight. |
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Post by cedarchoper58 on Aug 9, 2023 16:56:15 GMT -5
The spec on those is 120V +/-5V. Hence I’m not sure he’d be any better off. maybe the spec is 120VAC + or - 5VAC but it defeently sounds very very different at 118VAC vs 125VAC |
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pdf64
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Post by pdf64 on Aug 9, 2023 18:33:07 GMT -5
The spec on those is 120V +/-5V. Hence I’m not sure he’d be any better off. maybe the spec is 120VAC + or - 5VAC but it defeently sounds very very different at 118VAC vs 125VAC You may have misunderstood, I’m not contradicting your experience. Rather I was suggesting that as the linked voltage regulator could only achieve an accuracy of +/-5V, it might not be of any advantage to you, as you indicate that your wall voltage is already within that range. |
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Post by LTB on Aug 10, 2023 10:06:19 GMT -5
The spec on those is 120V +/-5V. Hence I’m not sure he’d be any better off. maybe the spec is 120VAC + or - 5VAC but it defeently sounds very very different at 118VAC vs 125VAC That is my kind of amp. What tubes are in it? |
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Post by cedarchoper58 on Aug 10, 2023 10:12:44 GMT -5
maybe the spec is 120VAC + or - 5VAC but it defeently sounds very very different at 118VAC vs 125VAC That is my kind of amp. What tubes are in it? 6L6 STR Svlitlana aamp 67 BF pro reverb |
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Post by Leftee on Aug 10, 2023 10:29:43 GMT -5
I’m not finding a power conditioner - at any price - that does what you want it to do.
But if the amp sounds that different with just a small change in voltage, maybe it needs a tuneup.
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Post by cedarchoper58 on Aug 10, 2023 17:13:28 GMT -5
I’m not finding a power conditioner - at any price - that does what you want it to do. But if the amp sounds that different with just a small change in voltage, maybe it needs a tuneup. its not small its 7VAC. The bias drops from 36ma to around 32ma so the tubes are running way cool the plates are dropping from 480VDC to 460VDC |
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pdf64
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Post by pdf64 on Aug 11, 2023 4:32:02 GMT -5
… its not small its 7VAC. The bias drops from 36ma to around 32ma so the tubes are running way cool the plates are dropping from 480VDC to 460VDC So the idle dissipation drops from roughly 18W to 15W. I acknowledge your experience of a tonal change, but electrically that doesn’t seem a big deal, not a significant change in conditions. Consider that in the days of analogue meters, such changes would be barely detectable, it’s only with high resolution, high accuracy digital metering that such correlations are able to be made. Bear in mind your amp was designed for a mains wall voltage of 117V, and that normal design criteria is for equipment to accommodate a mains voltage tolerance of +/-10% from that nominal value. That’s not to say equipment performance won’t change at all, just that within that range, it should be able to operate without malfunctioning. |
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Post by Leftee on Aug 11, 2023 7:09:21 GMT -5
Maybe bias at 120VAC. That might put you in a more satisfactory range. I think that might be worth a try.
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Post by cedarchoper58 on Aug 11, 2023 10:08:15 GMT -5
Maybe bias at 120VAC. That might put you in a more satisfactory range. I think that might be worth a try. i thought about that but when the wall voltage goes to 125VAC wont i the be running my tubes so hot i might red plate or have a melt down of a tranny |
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Post by Leftee on Aug 11, 2023 10:12:32 GMT -5
I think it would come down to the health of your tubes.
It’s going to be a bit tough to find “the tone zone” and maintain it. A very tight power conditioner would be helpful. Something that would maintain 120 out of that voltage range you mention.
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pdf64
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Post by pdf64 on Aug 11, 2023 10:38:39 GMT -5
Maybe bias at 120VAC. That might put you in a more satisfactory range. I think that might be worth a try. i thought about that but when the wall voltage goes to 125VAC wont i the be running my tubes so hot i might red plate or have a melt down of a tranny Normal design criteria is for equipment to accommodate a mains voltage tolerance of +/-10% from the nominal value. ie within that range, the equipment should be able to operate without malfunctioning. |
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Post by cedarchoper58 on Aug 11, 2023 16:52:27 GMT -5
i thought about that but when the wall voltage goes to 125VAC wont i the be running my tubes so hot i might red plate or have a melt down of a tranny Normal design criteria is for equipment to accommodate a mains voltage tolerance of +/-10% from the nominal value. ie within that range, the equipment should be able to operate without malfunctioning. it operates just fine its the sound/tone/drive/sustaine that changes when voltaged drops 7VAC. I do run the amp pretty clean and hard volume on 7 with tube screamer maye if i used a super hig gain amp with les paul instead of strat it would not be noticible |
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pdf64
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Post by pdf64 on Aug 11, 2023 18:48:03 GMT -5
Normal design criteria is for equipment to accommodate a mains voltage tolerance of +/-10% from the nominal value. ie within that range, the equipment should be able to operate without malfunctioning. it operates just fine its the sound/tone/drive/sustaine that changes when voltaged drops 7VAC… Ok, it’s just you mentioned being worried about the valves redplating / transformer melting. |
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Post by cedarchoper58 on Aug 12, 2023 10:10:16 GMT -5
it operates just fine its the sound/tone/drive/sustaine that changes when voltaged drops 7VAC… Ok, it’s just you mentioned being worried about the valves redplating / transformer melting. are you saying if i bias with my plates at 450VDC-118VAC and then there is no chance of a melt down when it goes to 485VDC plates and wall 125VDC |
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Post by Leftee on Aug 12, 2023 11:31:59 GMT -5
I won’t speak for Pete, but that’s why I mentioned having healthy tubes.
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pdf64
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Post by pdf64 on Aug 12, 2023 11:49:36 GMT -5
Ok, it’s just you mentioned being worried about the valves redplating / transformer melting. are you saying if i bias with my plates at 450VDC-118VAC and then there is no chance of a melt down when it goes to 485VDC plates and wall 125VDC It’s a vintage valve amp, there’s a potential for failure, and the potential will tend to increase as mains voltage / loading is increased. However, from the data provided, there’s no reason to think trouble may be imminent. |
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Post by cedarchoper58 on Aug 12, 2023 17:16:59 GMT -5
are you saying if i bias with my plates at 450VDC-118VAC and then there is no chance of a melt down when it goes to 485VDC plates and wall 125VDC It’s a vintage valve amp, there’s a potential for failure, and the potential will tend to increase as mains voltage / loading is increased. However, from the data provided, there’s no reason to think trouble may be imminent. |
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gbfun
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Post by gbfun on Aug 14, 2023 6:58:02 GMT -5
Gosh...I'm going to get flack for this but what else is new. Have you considered that it is your HEARING that is fluctuating day to day due to your health and amount of sleep and allergies etc. and/or...as your ears first encounter, warm up and then fatigue from loud sound exposure time ? In short, your perceived hearing CHANGES as you are exposed to loud sound. I say this because the techy guys here are suggesting normal electrical fluctuations in healthy amps are usually too small to really notice and I personally practice with the exact same digital equipment every day and at least 3 times a week, my equipment sounds "off/bad" until I've been playing long enough for my EARS to settle in. I think the odds are long that a body is WAY more likely to fluctuate significantly than a set of electronic elements from day to day. So, perhaps your hearing is fluctuating, and not so much your amp ? That's one possibility. The other is a known issue with solder cracks that close when they get warmed up after some time and the amp starts sounding better when warm because the electricity flows better. Whatever the truth is, I feel your pain. Somedays I've got sweet spots all over the neck and sometimes I don't...with the same exact equipment. It's frustrating for sure, but it doesn't last long. One time I had a cable that gave me sweet spots most of the time and weak sounds on occasional days. It tested fine and worked most of the time. The connectors were clean. I even cleaned the input connectors. Never did figure that one out so I changed out the cable and it's sweet spots again. Still, I perceive much better tone after my EARS have been exposed for 30 minutes or so. Food for thought.  |
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Post by LTB on Aug 14, 2023 18:16:20 GMT -5
Still, I perceive much better tone after my EARS have been exposed for 30 minutes or so. Food for thought. Could that be from loud sounds breaking the ear wax up  Sorry, couldn’t pass but you do make all valid points |
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Post by reverendrob on Aug 15, 2023 3:38:17 GMT -5
Gosh...I'm going to get flack for this but what else is new. Have you considered that it is your HEARING that is fluctuating day to day due to your health and amount of sleep and allergies etc. and/or...as your ears first encounter, warm up and then fatigue from loud sound exposure time ? In short, your perceived hearing CHANGES as you are exposed to loud sound. I say this because the techy guys here are suggesting normal electrical fluctuations in healthy amps are usually too small to really notice and I personally practice with the exact same digital equipment every day and at least 3 times a week, my equipment sounds "off/bad" until I've been playing long enough for my EARS to settle in. I think the odds are long that a body is WAY more likely to fluctuate significantly than a set of electronic elements from day to day. So, perhaps your hearing is fluctuating, and not so much your amp ? That's one possibility. The other is a known issue with solder cracks that close when they get warmed up after some time and the amp starts sounding better when warm because the electricity flows better. Whatever the truth is, I feel your pain. Somedays I've got sweet spots all over the neck and sometimes I don't...with the same exact equipment. It's frustrating for sure, but it doesn't last long. One time I had a cable that gave me sweet spots most of the time and weak sounds on occasional days. It tested fine and worked most of the time. The connectors were clean. I even cleaned the input connectors. Never did figure that one out so I changed out the cable and it's sweet spots again. Still, I perceive much better tone after my EARS have been exposed for 30 minutes or so. Food for thought. Everything you mention, plus relative position of self+guitar and amp in room. Where your head is pointing, what the humidity is, et al. All these things are going to have a huge impact too! |
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gbfun
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Post by gbfun on Aug 15, 2023 4:43:47 GMT -5
Yep guys ! As I have found out, being a perfectionist in guitarland is a VERY unpleasant, and counterproductive, experience. Perfect 1)tuning, perfect 2)EQs for recording, practicing, performing, and recording), perfect 3)performances, perfect 4)technique, perfect 5)equipment etc is rarely even achieved by the best I suspect. And not for long or at all times and circumstances. Guitars are an imperfect experience, including amps, so a reasonable amount of denial and acceptance is required to stay(or attempt to be) SANE. Best to accept and let go of perfection and just have FUN ! Or at least ask the question...does the audience even notice guitarland nuances ? They've got their hands full with alcohol, drugs, excessive noise, sleep deprivation, prescription drug side effects, and checking out the hot "blank" across the way, or the latest cellphone event ! I think they'll notice a player having FUN more than guitarland nuances to the nth degree. However, I admit, after much personal research involving time I'll never get back... the question of ear wax under various temperatures and density and humidity, combined with the effect of gravity waves on tube circuits, and the proportion of amp molecules currently residing in dimension 1 through 11, along with the amount of testosterone and current blood pressure levels in the players ear canal, pre and post sex relations, should be studied in detail to arrive at a reasonable understanding of this issue. I hope this clears things up. I should also point out that yes, our electrical system output DOES seem to vary more than I thought. Thankfully, it doesn't shift colors on the TV or darken or brighten lightbulbs or speed up or slow down FM or AM songs on the radio. So the techy guys are probably right...fluctuating power should have little impact on "perceived" amp sound. But as the rest of the pack says, there might be a ton of OTHER things that impact other things that impact other things, that IOTs, etc. Might as well get as close to acceptable as possible and just have FUN is my point. Or only point your head the same direction each time you play...and clean out your earwax. As good as theory as any ! |
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Post by reverendrob on Aug 15, 2023 7:01:58 GMT -5
Even then it'd be difficult - where the guitar is held and how will mater (pickup angle versus amp etc will matter to, for that good little bit of feedback/boost at volume).
I'm not sure it's really measurable.
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Post by Leftee on Aug 15, 2023 7:08:48 GMT -5
I think there’s a fine line where you mitigate the issue as best possible. From there it’s an acceptance issue.
I still advocate a power conditioner, bias while powered by that device, then always plug the amp in to that device. From what little I know, that might be the best option.
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