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Post by funkykikuchiyo on Nov 18, 2023 11:09:12 GMT -5
I was having a conversation with someone about Band-Maid the other day. The point came up that they come across as a novelty (women dressed as maids playing hard rock), but the more you listen, the more you find value in it. Catchy hooks, good song writing, super tight performances... they have a very devoted following. It is clever from a marketing position, and maybe even artistic. I realized this is far from new.
How many hardcore Zappa fans started listening because they thought "Don't Eat The Yellow Snow" was funny, and eventually obsessed over The Black Page and Inca Roads? Rush fans who liked the radio friendly stuff then got into the more dramatic concept album stuff? Barenaked Ladies is another sneaky one - funny songs with simple acoustic guitar accompaniment, but listen more (especially live) and you hear a really tight band with strong songwriting.
You see it in the jazz/classical world. Who started listening to jazz because of Peanuts? Probably a lot of people. Who got into classical because of a movie soundtrack? Or, the endless stream of Christmas albums?
You can't have the sales pitch/gimmick without the quality music behind it, or it won't last. Zappa wouldn't have had his following if it was JUST the silly songs. I think we've lost this in today's music, and it might be part of why pop music is so drab. They don't have a way to invite listeners deeper into something else, and the stuff with some depth isn't doing a good job of selling itself. It is hard to find quality among the accessible music, and accessibility among quality music, and it feels like the chasm is as big as it has ever been.
Anyone have any other examples?
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Post by Leftee on Nov 18, 2023 14:38:17 GMT -5
Ahhhhh
THIS must be the Puddles thread.
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Post by funkykikuchiyo on Nov 18, 2023 14:54:38 GMT -5
Puddles Pity Party?
He has talent and a schtick to attract an audience. Does he have a deeper catalog that goes beyond the novelty?
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Post by Leftee on Nov 18, 2023 22:40:46 GMT -5
Not that I’m aware.
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Post by Taildragger on Nov 19, 2023 0:25:22 GMT -5
Of course, he died in 1993, so the "today" to which he's referring happened 30 years ago.
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Post by funkykikuchiyo on Nov 19, 2023 12:37:28 GMT -5
Yeah, and the stuff he was criticizing was a golden age compared to today. In retrospect, there were a lot of shallow "pop" artists who were being supported by some amazing producers and session players, and the musicians who played their own instruments and wrote their own songs looked down their noses at them... but it was still good music, we just were celebrating the wrong people, and should've been recognizing all of the behind the scenes players. These days... I'm just not hearing that. I guess you hear a decent guitar solo in a pop country song or whatever, but it is kinda the worst of both worlds.
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Post by RufusTeleStrat on Nov 19, 2023 13:19:52 GMT -5
It seems to me that looking back there were parallel tracks to success. There were the bands that just by sheer luck and will were successful. Made their own way, played all the tracks and wrote the songs, developed the new techniques, tracking and such.
Then there were the bands (Beach boys come to mind), who initially were self contained and then were co-opted into larger and larger productions, some at their own request.
Then you add in the Monkeys and the made up stuff.
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Post by funkykikuchiyo on Nov 19, 2023 13:35:55 GMT -5
Yeah, even with The Beatles, I think my favorite Beatle was George Martin. At their original signing, The Beatles were set up to be another band to be the front for a shadow songwriter, but George Martin saw potential in the Lennon/McCartney team and encouraged them to keep writing their own stuff, while convincing other executives to trust him on that.
Motown is a good example - the singers are fine, but you can't really appreciate the music without credit to the Funk Brothers. Same can be said for a lot of soul recordings on other labels, too. Michael Jackson is another good example. Very talented, but OBVIOUSLY had a lot of talent to work with, from Quincy Jones on down.
There's a story about Aerosmith (that I haven't verified) that their first album recording was a total mess and the producers brought in session players to get it done. The producers told the band that they either needed to take the session guys on the road, or they had to actually learn the parts, and they elected to finally learn how to play it right. I don't see any modern equivalent. Indie bands just always sound mediocre, and no one pushes them harder because their mediocrity helps them sound "authentic", I guess. Higher level artists are more just broad social media celebrities, and sometimes the music has some depth to it, but is usually unremarkable.
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Post by RufusTeleStrat on Nov 19, 2023 13:50:33 GMT -5
This is one reason I like Albert Lee. Played with the Everly Brothers, the Crickets, Linda Ronstadt, Clapton, just to name a few, as well as countless faceless session jobs.
He appears from time to time at the Baked Potato in LA area and I make the trek to see him. Humble, and at almost 80 still rips on the guitar. He is the old school where you made your chops playing the instrument.
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Post by Leftee on Nov 20, 2023 7:46:17 GMT -5
Puddles Pity Party? He has talent and a schtick to attract an audience. Does he have a deeper catalog that goes beyond the novelty? My approach was, come for the shtick, stay for the excellent baritone.
He would probably not be on my radar but for the greasepaint.
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Post by funkykikuchiyo on Nov 20, 2023 10:27:41 GMT -5
Ah, I gotcha. Yeah, he's a good example. I have a soft spot for good covers of pop songs, because they're often well written but glitzed up too much in an original performance to be appreciated. The Dweezil Zappa version of Hit Me Baby One More Time is another good one, too.
Barenaked Ladies is still the best example I can think of. Funny name, goofy songs... but very listenable, great musicianship, likeable people. My only complaint is that their studio stuff is never even close to how they sound live, and they don't have enough live recordings out there.
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Post by Taildragger on Nov 20, 2023 10:49:29 GMT -5
So...would the best music sales pitch be, "perfect pitch"?
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