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Post by reverendrob on Nov 21, 2023 19:27:06 GMT -5
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Post by Leftee on Nov 21, 2023 20:34:38 GMT -5
I saw that. Pretty cool!
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Post by Cal-Woody on Nov 22, 2023 22:58:55 GMT -5
I saw that one also and would really like to check it out. It has all the right components, even has the Gibson headstock. Lifton case. I just need to try one and decide if I like it. I made my own version of the Greenie Les Paul years ago when more of the specs were revealed and used Burstbucker Pro's. It turned out great but had a hard time learning how the out-of-phase tones were going to be any benefit to me. With a factory made model I hope to hear what it is that I'm missing. These pickups are Alnico 2 and are wax potted. I'll have to reread more about the Gibson/Epiphone model to see what I might be missing. The new Epiphone model with case is running at $1400. Thats not bad!
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Post by reverendrob on Nov 23, 2023 7:00:50 GMT -5
They also announced all the "high end" Epi "Inspired by" models will have the proper Gibson HS in the future.
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Post by LTB on Nov 30, 2023 23:19:40 GMT -5
Cool, bet it was the two different sets of knobs that jacked the price up!
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Post by funkykikuchiyo on Dec 1, 2023 9:52:08 GMT -5
Played one a week ago.
It is an Epiphone. With nicer pickups and hardware. Not bad, probably fine for the price point (I don't pay much attention to prices these days because I haven't bought a guitar in like, 10 years), but I was expecting something more like the USA Epiphones that felt more on par with say, the Eastmans or something. It was easy to set up, neck was fine, everything where it needed to be. It did have a '50s style neck, and I don't know how often Epiphone has that offering.
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Post by Leftee on Dec 1, 2023 11:00:05 GMT -5
Epiphone started the neck profiles @2020 with the updated Les Pauls. I have a vintage burst ‘50s. I did a fret level\crown\polish and put a set of Parson Streets in it. It came with CTS pots and orange drop caps. It turned out well enough that I sold my LP Traditional.
We could argue the finer points of that move, but the bottom line was the Epi is a fine replacement for the Gibson. At least in my world.
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Post by funkykikuchiyo on Dec 1, 2023 11:12:26 GMT -5
Epiphone started the neck profiles @2020 with the updated Les Pauls. I have a vintage burst ‘50s. I did a fret level\crown\polish and put a set of Parson Streets in it. It came with CTS pots and orange drop caps. It turned out well enough that I sold my LP Traditional. We could argue the finer points of that move, but the bottom line was the Epi is a fine replacement for the Gibson. At least in my world. Yeah, I hear you.
All I'm saying is that I didn't see much daylight between the Greeny and something like yours that had the upgrades. Though, I lose track of what has what neck profile, mostly because I don't follow the websites or spec sheets.... I generally just wait until stuff hits my bench.
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Post by reverendrob on Dec 1, 2023 11:23:52 GMT -5
The newer Epis are pretty damned good - unless you're talking bottom barrel bolt on neck LP Jrs etc.
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Post by Leftee on Dec 1, 2023 12:10:35 GMT -5
There was nothing “wrong” with the stock pickups. I just wanted a better PAF tone - and the Parson Streets do that very well.
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Post by LTB on Dec 1, 2023 15:12:10 GMT -5
I just can’t see $1500 for an Epi (unless made in U.S.A.)
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Post by reverendrob on Dec 1, 2023 15:21:11 GMT -5
I just can’t see $1500 for an Epi (unless made in U.S.A.) The imports aren't cheap any more (and HSC and Usa pickups and the rest) kick in. "Cheap" imports still exist, but they're well into midrange now.
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telebob
Quarternote
Posts: 32
Formerly Known As: Tele-Bob
Age: 64
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Post by telebob on Dec 1, 2023 15:29:19 GMT -5
I'm so glad Epiphone finally got rid of that big goofy headstock. I might actually buy one now.
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Post by Leftee on Dec 1, 2023 18:53:17 GMT -5
The new headstock looks “proper.”
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Post by pcalu on Dec 2, 2023 8:43:23 GMT -5
Changing the cut of the head stock was proper .. Now, did they keep the the EPI angle/relief of the head stock and it's beef up neck joint? It's a better design than Gibson's. Epi copied what Heritage did decades ago...
Other than the ugly head stock, the EPI's line.... with those changes... IMO had a better foundation than any Gibson on the market. They stay in tune better and the neck isn't prone to snap off at the slightest impact. Cosmetic's of the head stock aside... wood is wood, double binding ... is just cosmetics ... If you upgrade the electronics on an Epi and you have a better Guitar. Sorry Gibson owners, fact are facts... having as a working musician used Gibson LP customs, they fell apart in my hands after a couple of years and with the slightest change in the venue's temperature, went out of tune due to the neck design. Hence, I have a very low opinion of Gibsons and the neck design in general. I have always like the syle of the single cut away of a les paul... but what Gibson asks for a standard (forget customs.) I wouldn't buy one... just not worth it IMO.
If they kept the improvement in the headstock ... this model, is going to be a huge seller... and is going to bite uber huge into the brand name Gibson's on sales if LPs.
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Post by Leftee on Dec 2, 2023 9:36:18 GMT -5
Now, did they keep the the EPI angle/relief of the head stock and it's beef up neck joint? The volute? They did not keep it. I agree, it's something that should have stayed. I'm sure the "purists" would have complained had they kept it. But it is a design improvement.
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Post by reverendrob on Dec 2, 2023 9:48:45 GMT -5
The volute isn't likely to exist on any of the "reissue" models outside of Norlin era things.
As far as "better than a Gibson", I'm sure there are individual guitars that are versus another individual guitar, but I honestly wouldn't trade either one of my '16 LP HPs for a "real" '59 (providing I couldn't sell the '59, pay off he house, and get more '16 HPs).....let alone an Epi anything.
Nothing against cheapies, mind you - I love mine, but the fit and finish and feel difference tells me where the money is every time.
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Post by funkykikuchiyo on Dec 2, 2023 10:50:58 GMT -5
Volute isn't as useful on an Epiphone because the cut out for the truss rod is much smaller. And, I've had to fix peghead breaks when the volute is there, and if they aren't cut right they don't really add strength, just mass. You have to think of the grain, and if it is actually adding some long grain... or if it is just a lump of end grain sticking out in a random place. I've also glued pegheads where the break doesn't seem to go along with the truss rod cavity anyway, and it was just coincidence that it was there. I think it would make more sense to 1: be careful about how you cut that truss rod cavity (they get amazingly deep on Gibsons sometimes, makes me wonder how often they just go completely through) and 2: be careful on shaping the neck. It is different now, but for a long time, if you knew what to look for, you could find divots on neck profiles where they stopped too long with a rolling pin sander, and it was common for that area to be way over sanded for no good reason. You end up with an anti-volute.
Which Epiphone peghead is getting the most hate? I never liked the super wide one that you see on a lot of Casinos. Ugly, but also greatly increases the lateral angle of the D and G strings making tricky tuning even harder. The smaller ones never bothered me. I felt like it was only an issue if you didn't want your friends to know you're playing the cheaper one... like pulling the badge off of your Geo.
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Post by funkykikuchiyo on Dec 2, 2023 10:52:00 GMT -5
Nothing against cheapies, mind you - I love mine, but the fit and finish and feel difference tells me where the money is every time. Yeah, that was more the point of my above post. The Epiphone vs Gibson debate is a whole other thing, but some reviews are teasing this model as being an Epiphone that feels like something more than an Epiphone.... which it doesn't.
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Post by Leftee on Dec 2, 2023 11:01:21 GMT -5
My Epi needed a fret level, which is the norm for the line. That took it up several notches.
Yes, it’s not a Gibby. But I love the way it feels/plays/sounds. Our mileages all vary.
It would hold up amazingly well in a blind tone test.
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Post by reverendrob on Dec 2, 2023 11:38:02 GMT -5
Yea, I can sound good on an Epi LP that's been set up right.
I've just gotten spoiled by good setup and Plek.
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Post by funkykikuchiyo on Dec 2, 2023 12:13:36 GMT -5
Yes, it’s not a Gibby. But I love the way it feels/plays/sounds. Our mileages all vary. Yeah, I think this is the key. Epiphones are fine, just don't pretend it is the same. It isn't different because Gibson is something holy and imitations are profane, or because Gibson craftsmanship is so incredibly high (it ain't).... they're just different. There are enough design/materials/manufacturing decisions that are made differently that it just will never be the same. Apples and oranges? Not quite. It isn't like comparing a Jackson and a Rickenbacker. They aren't THAT different. But, they're still different. It took a long time for people to come around to the idea of things like Guilds being judged on their own merits and not simply as Gibson copies, and Epiphone is in a similar boat.
That's why the whole "it is as good as a Gibson!" thing makes me roll my eyes. Good at what? If you like it, great. But, a horribly build Norlin Gibson is more "Gibson" than the best Epiphone. Because Gibson is better? No. I'd probably rather play the Epiphone. Let Epiphone as a brand succeed on its own merits. People get too hung up on it.
Similar battles always happen with G&L and Heritage. They usually go nowhere, and only help to turn instruments into conversation pieces.
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Post by reverendrob on Dec 2, 2023 12:53:03 GMT -5
Yea, pretty much this. I'm of the mind that my "perfect for me" weirdo spec Les Paul HPs...are ..superior to ANY other ones I've played, including vintage.
They pushed EVERYTHING else off my "play this" pile for the last seven years now.
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Post by Leftee on Dec 2, 2023 13:05:30 GMT -5
Yeah… no pretending it’s a Gibson LP. It just filled the spot nicely.
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Post by funkykikuchiyo on Dec 2, 2023 13:23:21 GMT -5
Yea, pretty much this. I'm of the mind that my "perfect for me" weirdo spec Les Paul HPs...are ..superior to ANY other ones I've played, including vintage. They pushed EVERYTHING else off my "play this" pile for the last seven years now. The LPs I like the most are always the most expensive ones, but I don't think it is because of the price tag... I think it is just because they make certain design choices on the expensive ones and don't do it on others for some silly reason. Lighter weights, bigger necks, slightly shallower neck angle, lighter tailpiece, lower wind pickups.... none of that should be dramatically more money, but it is. I don't like how boat anchors sound, and I don't like really strident sounding electronics, and that is like, 80% of LPs out there. I dunno, maybe I just have champagne tastes, but I think a cheap LP could definitely make me happy (if I liked LPs enough to begin with).
I often find myself preferring PRS SE models to the more expensive ones for the inverse to this. PRS just tends to be a bit too strident for me. Love how they sound played by others, can't warm up to them myself... but the SEs can often be hard to put down. I'm not sure if PRS and the SE line are as distant in vibe as Gibson and Epiphone are, though.
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Post by reverendrob on Dec 2, 2023 13:27:09 GMT -5
Yea, pretty much this. I'm of the mind that my "perfect for me" weirdo spec Les Paul HPs...are ..superior to ANY other ones I've played, including vintage. They pushed EVERYTHING else off my "play this" pile for the last seven years now. The LPs I like the most are always the most expensive ones, but I don't think it is because of the price tag... I think it is just because they make certain design choices on the expensive ones and don't do it on others for some silly reason. Lighter weights, bigger necks, slightly shallower neck angle, lighter tailpiece, lower wind pickups.... none of that should be dramatically more money, but it is. I don't like how boat anchors sound, and I don't like really strident sounding electronics, and that is like, 80% of LPs out there. I dunno, maybe I just have champagne tastes, but I think a cheap LP could definitely make me happy (if I liked LPs enough to begin with).
Basically the '16 HPs I fell in love with are very oddball spec - if there was a modern version of the Les Paul Recording, it would have bene it. They're both lightish (under 9 pounds, barely, but...), extrawide necks, titanium nut/saddles and lightweight metal everything. The Axcess neck joint is huge - I can't go back after that, honestly. And it came with my favorite LP pickups as well - the 490/498 set that you either love or hate, and I fell in love with them the first Custom I played back in the day. Didn't love the guitar so much to pay $3500 for it...but the pickups were amazing. Just a case of "I feel more like me when I'm playing the thing" and the HPs were NOT cheap - about twice the price of a baseline studio at the time, but they did come with flight cases and have actual MoP inlays instead of plastic.
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Post by funkykikuchiyo on Dec 2, 2023 13:39:36 GMT -5
Yeah, I think some of that is a real scarcity of big necks on the market. Guys like you and ninworks appreciate big necks. Lots of people think they need skinny or that they'll get a benefit from it, but don't. It is getting better, though. I briefly played an American Professional Strat yesterday, and the neck had a comfortably full feel to it and it sounded great. I've been on my neck profile rant enough times you've all already heard it... hahaha
The big crime there is that you had to pick up one weirdo instrument made during one year in order to get that neck. Not that long ago, if you wanted anything bigger than a regular thin neck, you were instantly in CS price territory. Doesn't cost more money to mill off less mahogany.
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Post by reverendrob on Dec 2, 2023 13:42:54 GMT -5
Yea, for me it solved a problem I've had since I started playing - I push both Es off the fretboard VERY easily. This has "extra space" on both E strings versus the edge so it's not an issue. Not a huge amount, but enough.
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sirWheat
Wholenote
For a better future, play Stevie Wonder for your children.
Posts: 319
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Post by sirWheat on Dec 3, 2023 12:29:41 GMT -5
I have to wonder if it isn't the case that Gibson is slowly moving toward being ultra high-end and using Epiphone for everything else. Sorta like Fender USA vs. the Mexican stuff.,,
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Post by funkykikuchiyo on Dec 3, 2023 13:12:56 GMT -5
I have to wonder if it isn't the case that Gibson is slowly moving toward being ultra high-end and using Epiphone for everything else. Sorta like Fender USA vs. the Mexican stuff.,, I don't think either really knows where they want to be. Gibson has been struggling with quality control for a while. With the high end stuff they've budgeted enough labor hours to clean up their slop when they need to, but they need to figure out how not to have the slop to begin with. Their QC catches stuff that is a big deal and only lets go cosmetic or dumb stuff (usually), which is a good indication that they're aware of the problems.
With Fender, I think the problem snuck up on them. They don't really want skilled labor in the Corona plant (or rather, don't want to pay for it), and it is basically the same labor pool for the USA and Mexican stuff, just one group has work visas... so obviously the Mexican stuff is going to end up with an edge because you get more for less money, and probably better worker retention, since a job at that plant is probably solidly middle class (I'm just guessing). It is the customers that are finding out that the main USA lines don't offer enough of an advantage over MIM stuff and that CS is where to go if you want to drop $$$$, I'm sure upper management wishes it was otherwise.
I am also willing to bet that the production managers at the Ensenada plant are just better at what they do and far more organized. In this country, you get these weird patterns where people do the management training and use none of what they learned. They either manage like yokels, or in a distinctly "Office Space" way, where they just invent metrics to review (TPS reports) in order to justify their own lack of job performance. Any real management ends up happening via the HR department. I think this is the REAL reason other countries kick out butts in manufacturing, but that's a rant for another thread.
I will say that the stuff that sells fastest are the weird high end limited runs. You can sit on a pile of LP Standards for a year, but get some ugly Axcess with a floyd that costs twice as much.... it'll sell out within 48 hours. Collectors/man cave people/whatever are the ones injecting the most money, it seems. The problem is, as I mentioned above, the extra price is (probably) just going to covering their butts for rework instead of just being nice extra profit.
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