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Post by ninworks on Dec 17, 2020 10:36:03 GMT -5
This was the first song I ever recorded using a DAW on my computer. I used Cool Edit Pro on an old 386 PC. That was before Adobe bought them out and turned it into Audacity. I was using an old Echo Audio interface which was lots better than the old Soundblaster sound cards for the early PC's but nowhere near as good as the inexpensive stuff that's on the market today. The effects plugins for those early DAW's weren't very good either by today's standards but they were usable if used sparingly. I thought I was in heaven after recording with analog tape for so many years. If I remember right, this song had about 45 tracks on it. That was unheard of compared to my old 1/2" 8 track Otari tape machine. Since I performed everything myself it took a lot of tracks. I think there were 16 tracks of just background vocals. 12 or so tracks of electric guitars. 2 or 3 stereo acoustic guitar tracks. A number of different takes of lead vocal which were comped together for the final track. This was also my first exposure to mix automation. There were no faders to program it with. Everything had to be penciled in manually for it. Very painstaking but it worked. This was my feeble attempt at writing a Queen-like song. I'm not Freddy Mercury so it took me a lot of tracks to make the vocals sound anywhere near acceptable. soundcloud.com/ninworks/the-wish
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Post by Auf Kiltre on Dec 17, 2020 11:36:48 GMT -5
Holy smokes, that's incredibly good. Writing, arranging, production and performance. You really nail the backup vox (and guitar) on the Mercury/May thing. I am really curious on how you got the backups like that, using 2:58 as an example. Is that a volume slide into the phrasing? It almost has a reverse reverb effect.
You got some mad skills there Ken!
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Post by ninworks on Dec 17, 2020 12:07:24 GMT -5
Holy smokes, that's incredibly good. Writing, arranging, production and performance. You really nail the backup vox (and guitar) on the Mercury/May thing. I am really curious on how you got the backups like that, using 2:58 as an example. Is that a volume slide into the phrasing? It almost has a reverse reverb effect. You got some mad skills there Ken! Thanks Larry. As for the BG Vox it's just how I sang them. At 2:58 I sang unison on all the tracks for the first 2 notes and then spread each of them out into 3 or 4 part harmony on the 3rd one. I honestly don't remember how many different notes there were at that particular moment. It varied from point to point throughout the song. Also, at the start of the vocal phrase I sang a crescendo on each note starting small and achieving full volume by the 3rd note. It's all about singing the parts with a texture where they will blend together. My Beatles training showing its face there. The notes on many of their harmonies weren't pitch-perfect but the textures of each their voices blended so well, the way they sang them, that it worked. Using 3 vocal tracks per note doesn't hurt either. That was another entire experiment in itself that worked out. I learned a lot during that process. I double tracked them at first and that sounded better than a single track for each part. Then I tripled them. That sounded better than 2 tracks. Then I did another track for 4 on each voice. It sounded worse and smaller than it did with 3. That was weird. I have tried 4 tracks since then and the 3 track approach still stands. 4 is too many unless you have multiple different singers. The same went for the guitar orchestration part at the top. 3 tracks per voice worked best.
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Post by Auf Kiltre on Dec 17, 2020 12:13:13 GMT -5
I'll commonly double backup vox and pan them left and right for the spread. I don't think I've done the tripling thing. Regardless of the track count, your abilities at vocal performance clearly shine through.
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Post by ninworks on Dec 17, 2020 12:42:49 GMT -5
Thanks. I never really considered myself much of a singer but, give me enough tracks to hide the problems and I can usually make it work. I'm a guitar player who sings a little not a singer who plays guitar. Panning plays a big part as well. Getting the right notes on the correct side of the spectrum is important. Especially when there are complex chord voicings occurring in the vocals. Close voiced notes sound better when on opposite sides. There's less masking going on with that and it leaves a bigger hole for the lead vocal without cluttering it up as much. I've done lots of experimenting recording vocals. I was very fortunate to have grown up and played in many bands with one of my best friends from my teen years who is a world-class singer. I was mostly a background singer because it didn't make sense for me to sing lead when he was so incredible. He sounded a lot like Tommy Shaw or Mickey Thomas just to give you an idea, and, he had that kind of power and range as well. He was one of my studio mates for decades and we worked together a lot. He would blow your mind with a lead vocal but couldn't sing backgrounds worth beans so I had to do it. It had to be done with some level of competency or it really stuck out since he was so good. I had to learn to sing background vocals. I did some lead vocal work in other bands but was mostly a guitar or bass player. Mostly guitar. I studied vocal arranging mostly from listening to and analyzing records from The Beatles, Todd Rundgren, Queen, Styx, and many others. This is him back in 1978 when we recorded this on a TEAC 3440 4 track. 2 acoustic guitars, multiple ponged tracks of a Minimoog and Dave, the singer. All we had was an SM58, an old Tangent mixer, the 4 track and a stereo 1/4" 2 track reel-to-reel. soundcloud.com/ninworks/you
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Post by Auf Kiltre on Dec 17, 2020 12:59:28 GMT -5
That's some impressive stuff for 1978 & a 4 track. And yes, very Tommy Shaw-ish, stellar pitch.
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Post by FlyonNylon on Dec 17, 2020 19:25:08 GMT -5
Sounds killer and nails the "A Night at the Opera" vibe. Thanks for sharing some of your techniques.
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Post by Ricketi on Dec 17, 2020 23:24:13 GMT -5
Wow! That was good!
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Post by Riff Twang on Dec 18, 2020 1:11:52 GMT -5
Very nicely done.
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Post by ninworks on Dec 18, 2020 7:35:49 GMT -5
Thanks guys!
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