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Post by pcalu on Nov 5, 2021 20:22:03 GMT -5
You get a new speaker.. put it in your favorite amp... then grow tired of it...
I keep coming back to the proprietary Eminence Legend 125. (I believe there is a difference from the "Made for Fender" 50 watt Gold/brown label version, I have both.... to my ears they are similar, but the proprietary is much smother and more detailed.
I haven't found a vintage voiced American speaker that can do what the Legend 125 can do. IMO its has the right combination of many things that my ears like... does American clean very well, has a natural break up at the right amp volume, very smooth in the midrange, very detailed extended highs.
I think the guitars and amps I use i.e. Telecasters and vintage amps have a lot to do with it. Telecaster being bright and punchy and full of midrange itself. Using the speaker in a 5e3x2 it affords me the ability to dial back a little on the treble from the amp. The result is a pleasing smooth, detailed vintage tone. (clean or overdriven)
I really like those guys at Mulberry Pike...
What is that one guitar speaker that you keep coming back too?
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Post by Leftee on Nov 5, 2021 20:50:35 GMT -5
The Texas Heat. If I don’t know what an amp wants, it wants a TH.
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pdf64
Wholenote
Posts: 558
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Post by pdf64 on Nov 6, 2021 5:22:21 GMT -5
My late 70s G12M25 blackback greenbacks. Whether mounted in 4x12, 2x12, open or closed back cabs, paired with a Blue in my AC30, they add a sprinkle of smokey, woody magic to any amp.
I’ve got oodles of other speakers but always return to those.
Current favourite in a 1x12 format is a Celestion Alnico Cream, previous faves have been Alnico Gold, Weber 12F150, EV SRO12 (alnico) …
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Post by Leftee on Nov 6, 2021 8:54:11 GMT -5
You get a new speaker.. put it in your favorite amp... then grow tired of it... I keep coming back to the proprietary Eminence Legend 125. (I believe there is a difference from the "Made for Fender" 50 watt Gold/brown label version, I have both.... to my ears they are similar, but the proprietary is much smother and more detailed. I haven't found a vintage voiced American speaker that can do what the Legend 125 can do. IMO its has the right combination of many things that my ears like... does American clean very well, has a natural break up at the right amp volume, very smooth in the midrange, very detailed extended highs. I think the guitars and amps I use i.e. Telecasters and vintage amps have a lot to do with it. Telecaster being bright and punchy and full of midrange itself. Using the speaker in a 5e3x2 it affords me the ability to dial back a little on the treble from the amp. The result is a pleasing smooth, detailed vintage tone. (clean or overdriven) I really like those guys at Mulberry Pike... What is that one guitar speaker that you keep coming back too? I likes ‘em too. There’s a lot to be said for the old Legend series. |
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Post by funkykikuchiyo on Nov 6, 2021 11:50:47 GMT -5
Interesting. Never found one.
The speakers I really like the sound of generally are ones I can't acquire. Old P12Rs or P10Rs in good shape or other similar speakers in older amps always sound amazing to me. I don't know if it is a "they don't make 'em like they used to" thing or if I just really like the sound of a well worn speaker that is about to blow.
One that I have used and would probably do again is the reissue Jensen C12N with the modified dust cap. I got the idea from someone on the old Moe's - gently cut out the paper dust cap and glue in a piece of felt. It takes away that weird upper midrange spike and gets a very pleasant, even sound. Of the replacement speakers I've used over the years, that has probably been the best.
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Post by Leftee on Nov 6, 2021 12:51:30 GMT -5
I think that was Steve Dahlman (sp)
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Post by funkykikuchiyo on Nov 6, 2021 13:19:39 GMT -5
I think that was Steve Dahlman (sp) I believe you are right! |
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Post by rickyguitar on Nov 6, 2021 20:30:58 GMT -5
C12N here too
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Post by pcalu on Nov 7, 2021 8:23:16 GMT -5
One that I have used and would probably do again is the reissue Jensen C12N with the modified dust cap. I got the idea from someone on the old Moe's - gently cut out the paper dust cap and glue in a piece of felt. It takes away that weird upper midrange spike and gets a very pleasant, even sound. Of the replacement speakers I've used over the years, that has probably been the best. First time I read about replacing the dust cap on a Sica(Italian) Jensen reissue C12N was on a thread I posted before the move to Moes'. It was a deep dive into the schematics of a Chicago Jensen C12N and how does the Sica(Italian) compare. Found out some interesting tid bits that ran counter to what Ted Weber was saying on his site. Love the Reissue C12N.. have a pair broken in... and a 3rd sitting stand bye. I need to try the felt cap idea. They have a lot detail to them. |
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Post by funkykikuchiyo on Nov 7, 2021 8:47:15 GMT -5
Yeah, Steve Dallman described the dustcap as giving it a 1khz "spike", I'm not sure if that is accurate but it sounds right. Maybe breaking them in helps with that. I wouldn't really know, because I've never been one to crank amps and try to push the speakers super hard. Getting the felt in there takes that away and it sounds more even, maybe a bit darker. It responds better to tone adjustments through the amp, too. Since you've done a lot of homework on those, I'd love to hear your opinion if/when you try it. If you do, just remember there is a voice coil wire right up there that you can cut if you go too fast. I found if I went slow and bumped it I could feel it and knew to stop. You cut out just on the inside of the cap, leaving about 1/16"-1/8" left to glue the felt to. Elmer's white glue seems to be standard for speaker cone work, though I'm not entirely sure if there is a reason for this except being cheap and readily available.
I have a Deluxe Reverb that had a C12K that was too big and weird for me, so I put in a Cannabis Rex, curious to try it and find out what the fuss was about. It had the darkness and slowness of a wet 15", but none of the charm. I hated it and wished I had just done a modded C12N.
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Post by Leftee on Nov 7, 2021 9:22:27 GMT -5
The C. Rex is a great speaker, but if you’re looking for familiar/vintage tones, it’s not your speaker.
Same with the new Wheelhouse speakers. They have a great woody knock that comes from an undoped cone. But the tones aren’t familiar to anything traditional. They’re their own thing. They do well across different amps, though. They take whatever is dished out by the tone stack.
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Post by funkykikuchiyo on Nov 7, 2021 11:16:49 GMT -5
It must have just been a bad match for a DRRI, then. I've been meaning to sell it. I had to crank the treble all the way up to get a decent sound, and it still just sounds "meh". I'm not one who feels a need to chase brighter tones, either. Maybe the problem is that it is dark and also a high power speaker, so I wasn't cranking it enough to get anything "woody" out of it. What amps were you using it in that you really liked it, Leftee? My initial hope was that it would bring me closer to some of those unsung vintage amps, like old Gibson amps or Gretsch amps or other random branded amps that were usually warmer/woodier/etc. than the Fenders. (My best guess for why is that, watt for watt, Fenders always tended to have smaller cabinets and baffles than a competing amp, even if the circuits were awfully close. I don't claim to be an amp expert by any means, though.)
The C12K ain't bad for what it is, I'm just not a fan of massive speakers and/or massive transformers when the rest of the rig doesn't justify it.
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Post by Leftee on Nov 7, 2021 15:58:50 GMT -5
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Post by jazzguy on Nov 8, 2021 18:40:02 GMT -5
original brown/gold foil label Jensen C12Ns in my old blackface Twins. I don't keep coming back to them, I've never stopped using them.
same speaker in a 10" version in my blackface Vibrolux Reverb
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Post by reverendrob on Nov 13, 2021 4:44:30 GMT -5
I'm partial for clean stuff either the Eminence things they used to put in Fender 12" combos (I HATE Fenders with Celestions!) or the stock Roland 12" in vintage Jazz Chorus amps.
The Emi works for dirt as well - I can tolerate a Celestion in a Marshall, but....not in a Fender.
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Post by pcalu on Nov 13, 2021 8:38:21 GMT -5
I'm partial for clean stuff either the Eminence things they used to put in Fender 12" combos (I HATE Fenders with Celestions!) or the stock Roland 12" in vintage Jazz Chorus amps. The Emi works for dirt as well - I can tolerate a Celestion in a Marshall, but....not in a Fender. I'm in the exact boat. |
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Post by Leftee on Nov 13, 2021 8:39:29 GMT -5
I’ve never left a Celestion in a Fender very long.
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Post by pcalu on Nov 13, 2021 9:00:18 GMT -5
You get a new speaker.. put it in your favorite amp... then grow tired of it... I keep coming back to the proprietary Eminence Legend 125. (I believe there is a difference from the "Made for Fender" 50 watt Gold/brown label version, I have both.... to my ears they are similar, but the proprietary is much smother and more detailed. I haven't found a vintage voiced American speaker that can do what the Legend 125 can do. IMO its has the right combination of many things that my ears like... does American clean very well, has a natural break up at the right amp volume, very smooth in the midrange, very detailed extended highs. I think the guitars and amps I use i.e. Telecasters and vintage amps have a lot to do with it. Telecaster being bright and punchy and full of midrange itself. Using the speaker in a 5e3x2 it affords me the ability to dial back a little on the treble from the amp. The result is a pleasing smooth, detailed vintage tone. (clean or overdriven) I really like those guys at Mulberry Pike... What is that one guitar speaker that you keep coming back too? I likes ‘em too. There’s a lot to be said for the old Legend series. Here is fun bit of info... About two weeks ago I email Eminence if they had any info on who designed the legend 125. Mathew Marcum replied: Thinks the speaker being in production for as long as it has was probably designed by Bob Gault himself!! (Founder of Eminence) Gault came from Magnavox and CTS.... pioneered a lot of work on modern guitar speaker.
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Post by Leftee on Nov 13, 2021 9:04:16 GMT -5
😎😎😎
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Post by LTB on Nov 15, 2021 5:54:17 GMT -5
I have the Texas Heat NEO and love it!
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Post by LTB on Nov 15, 2021 23:14:54 GMT -5
original brown/gold foil label Jensen C12Ns in my old blackface Twins. I don't keep coming back to them, I've never stopped using them. same speaker in a 10" version in my blackface Vibrolux Reverb I did cap and tube change on a 65 Twin reverb a friend had. It used to sound really good but He took the original speakers out and put Celestions in and it sounded like dog poop  |
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pdf64
Wholenote
Posts: 558
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Post by pdf64 on Nov 16, 2021 5:05:50 GMT -5
The ‘all Celestion speaker models sound the same’ implication above seems bizarre to me?
My Blackbacks typically sound great with Fender circuits, similar to my Weber 12F150 really, and 10” or 12” Golds sound amazing.
If particular models don’t sound good in particular applications then fine, I too dislike some speakers, but to tar a whole brand with the same brush, without providing detail of which model/s have led to that conclusion, may be somewhat unhelpful?
In a market saturated with choice I suppose the approach of ‘brand x amps don’t sound good with brand y speakers’ may be one way to narrow down the options, but be aware that it may lead to the wheat may be cast out with the chaff.
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Post by Leftee on Nov 16, 2021 8:08:05 GMT -5
Good point Peter.
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Post by jazzguy on Nov 16, 2021 13:27:47 GMT -5
original brown/gold foil label Jensen C12Ns in my old blackface Twins. I don't keep coming back to them, I've never stopped using them. same speaker in a 10" version in my blackface Vibrolux Reverb I did cap and tube change on a 65 Twin reverb a friend had. It used to sound really good but He took the original speakers out and put Celestions in and it sounded like dog poop '65s usually came w Oxfords which sound like dog poop, Leo must have gotten a good deal on them in '65 because all other yrs for blackface Twins, '64, '66 and '67 have Jensens |
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Post by Seldom Seen on Nov 16, 2021 17:42:36 GMT -5
Vintage US: The venerable Jensen P10Q and C10NS
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Post by reverendrob on Nov 20, 2021 3:55:14 GMT -5
The ‘all Celestion speaker models sound the same’ implication above seems bizarre to me? My Blackbacks typically sound great with Fender circuits, similar to my Weber 12F150 really, and 10” or 12” Golds sound amazing. If particular models don’t sound good in particular applications then fine, I too dislike some speakers, but to tar a whole brand with the same brush, without providing detail of which model/s have led to that conclusion, may be somewhat unhelpful? In a market saturated with choice I suppose the approach of ‘brand x amps don’t sound good with brand y speakers’ may be one way to narrow down the options, but be aware that it may lead to the wheat may be cast out with the chaff. It's a case of I've tried and heard a half dozen or more varieties of Celesitions in my preferred 6L6 platform Fenders, and...hated every single one. Some more than others, but it just loses a certain chime and definition the minute one gets put in - or a cab with them hooked up. |
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pdf64
Wholenote
Posts: 558
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Post by pdf64 on Nov 21, 2021 3:55:16 GMT -5
I suppose many of the more common / popular models are designed for heavy preamp overdrive, and to be robust. So they may not allow a classic NMV amp to shine.
For a wonderful lively responsive tone with definition aplenty, I suggest to try Alnico Gold or G12H30.
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Post by cedarchoper58 on Dec 4, 2021 19:15:35 GMT -5
I blew the speackers in my Black Face Pro reverb cranking it on 10 with a tube screamer. The amp was total SRV tone and it took 2 yeaars to find some old ones that sounded close. I tried new ones Swamp somthing and webbers and they did not do it for me. I finnaly found some Oxfords in a old bassman cab that did it for me. Got the SRV tone back. Now i use a Attenuator on that amp and my Marshall Plexi to protect those beautys
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Post by pcalu on Mar 28, 2022 20:20:44 GMT -5
I might have to my short list the Sica/Italian Jensen Ri of the C12n.  This weekend I dropped a well worn pair (that I've had for ever and a day) in a 74 Pro Reverb. I don't know if it's the paper cones finally fatiguing with age and use, and mellowing or it's the right speaker for the right amp thing. Or maybe it's just a phase... but I know what I like... One of those "why haven't I done this before?" Clean, or Amp pushed with a TS808 etc.. all really good. Classic stuff. Who knew.... |
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Post by Auf Kiltre on Mar 29, 2022 9:41:00 GMT -5
Probably the Celestion Blue Alnico. In the last gigging band I was in I came across an early 80's Princeton Reverb II for cheap. It needed work and original speaker sucked. I think the first speaker I put in was the Celestion Blue. Absolutely glorious. Pristine and LOUD. I was told to fear not at the 15 watt rating against my 20 watt amp and that turned out to be true. Many gigs and never a problem. I then tried a 25W Weber 12F150 and gotta say, I hated it. All my headroom disappeared and what gain in gained was nothing but a farting mess. I still wonder if there was something wrong with that particular speaker since they are so highly touted. Then I tried an Emi RW&B and the reality is I'd have probably stuck with that one had I not been tainted by the glorious Blue. There the Blue remains and the only reason I'll ever remove it is to put it in an cab for another amp. I've toyed with trying the highly touted Alessandro in my PRII, but just can't justify the cost for an amp that probably gets lit up for a half hour each month.
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