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Post by langford on Nov 20, 2021 10:19:23 GMT -5
I keep seeing references to Vox "chime" in various reviews and commentaries. I don't get it. I have very limited experience with Vox products, but what I've heard sounds like a lot of high end, rather than chime. I'm not knocking it by any means. It's a great sound. But I think of Fender amps when I think of chime. A more rounded tone with the scooped mid. I'd call Vox amps "bright." What says the collected wisdom of Moe's?
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Post by funkykikuchiyo on Nov 20, 2021 11:03:25 GMT -5
Not a lot of experience with Vox amps either, but it could be because a lot of the guitars associated with Voxes are also pretty "chimey"... Rickenbackers, or pretty much anything with old DeArmond pickups. Sometimes pieces of gear become one trick ponies simply for lack of effort. It might be interesting to hear someone grab a Strat or Les Paul, a stompbox, and see if they can get good blues or metal tones out of it. I bet they could.
Editing to add that I remember seeing Paul McCartney play and his backup guitarist had a late model SG (probably stock) going through some Voxes (probably AC30s) and it sounded amazing. It definitely had a recognizable Vox sound, but it was very full and didn't sound "chimey". It sounded somewhere between what you'd expect from a Vox and a Bluesbreaker... which makes sense since the SG is going to be more associated with Marshalls.
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Post by Leftee on Nov 20, 2021 11:13:24 GMT -5
I'm one of those in the camp where Vox = chime. Especially an AC30 (I don't have one). There are some cool representations here:
The voicing of an AC30 is something to behold "in the room." I was once in an amp shop and the owner was playing a 100w Marshall half-stack - cranked. Yeah... that was loud. He moved on to a cranked AC30 and it chased me from the room. It was a great lesson in "power isn't everything."
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Post by funkykikuchiyo on Nov 20, 2021 11:22:12 GMT -5
Good clip, Leftee!
Not to belabor a point, but he's leaning into "chime" with his guitar choices and riffs in all of the demos. Though, around 8:37 he uses his Jazzmaster and gets something close to a convincing southern rock tone. If I did a blind test of that, I'd have a very hard time guessing what amp it was, though my best guess would probably be some boutique with EL84s given that high end, so I guess that is a point in the corner of "chime".
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Post by Leftee on Nov 20, 2021 11:27:10 GMT -5
I’ve got a Winfield Cyclone which is a somewhat a copy of the original AC15 with an EF86 V1. The amp also sports a Celestion Blue. It chimes like no tomorrow.
I think part of the formula is pronounced upper mids that support the top end. Just my $.02
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Post by Peegoo 🏁 on Nov 20, 2021 12:06:50 GMT -5
AC30s with top boost or when running a treble booster? Yep.
Same for a Fender (Twim, Deluxe, Princeton, etc.) when running a treble booster.
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Post by langford on Nov 20, 2021 12:16:00 GMT -5
Thanks for the clip, Leftee. FYI. Those are tones that I would call "bright." I associate "chime" with the tones here (starting at 6:00 minute mark and again at 12:50) This is what I mean by the "rounded" highs. I'm thinking that maybe I don't have the right idea for the tones most people call "chime." I already know that what I call clean/edge of break-up is way different from what players like Mr. Shull mean when they use the terms.
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Post by Leftee on Nov 20, 2021 12:18:24 GMT -5
To me that is chime as well.
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pdf64
Wholenote
Posts: 558
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Post by pdf64 on Nov 20, 2021 12:57:40 GMT -5
To me, my AC30 from 1964 is as chimey as it gets. A pal has got a 1965 AC30 head, which is pretty much the same, and a modern AC15 clone (JMI brand), which can get a bit thin in ‘brilliance’ mode. He uses them with a cab with modern Jensen P10Rs.
I’ve fixed a couple of Marshall designed and built Vox TBX amps from the 90s. The AC15 was pretty naff, the AC30 was ok (I regard that model as the last ‘proper’ production AC30). Greenbacks in both.
Dunno about any other models.
To me chimey means that the rig is adding low order, non clipping harmonics. The high gm EL84 output valves, cathode bias, saggy HT and open loop operation will probably all be contributing to that. When combined with speaker’s high strength alnico magnets, lightweight ribbed cone, and lightweight paper voicecoil, a rig that adds numerous pleasing low order harmonics on non overdriven signals is created.
The same mechanisms add a noticeable degree of sompression to higher power levels.
It’s actually quite difficult to push a (proper) AC30 into hard, harsh overdrive, ie with sharp corners on the waveform.
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Post by funkykikuchiyo on Nov 20, 2021 13:34:25 GMT -5
When combined with speaker’s high strength alnico magnets.... Wait, are you saying alnico is actually different in a speaker?!
...
....... I'll see myself out.
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Post by ninworks on Nov 20, 2021 15:10:50 GMT -5
I have a 50th Anniversary hand wired AC15H1TV with a Greenback in it that chimes big time if you set it that way. It has a normal and a top boost channel. The top boost channel is more chimey but the other one can do it too depending upon how the controls are set. I have heard they are more chimey with an alnico Blue in them but don't have any experience with that. It will get downright dirty when the volume is turned up. I have a clean boost pedal I can put in front of it and it grows fangs and horns when I push the front end hard. For me it can get too bright easily so I always have to dial back the treble on the amp and even a bit on the guitar. That seems to be the same whether I am playing my Strat, SG, Les Paul, Tele copy, or CS356 through it. I love that little amp. It's like Godzilla in a shoebox.
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DrKev
Wholenote
It's just a guitar, it's not rocket science.
Posts: 424
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Post by DrKev on Nov 23, 2021 5:01:42 GMT -5
Chime? Maybe? I just think Vox's are bright. Sometimes wonderful bright, sometimes unpleasantly thin, depends on the speaker and the guitar and the ears of who's adjusting the knobs. Of course English is a weird language and we have a ton of completely non-sensical ways of describing sound. Creamy, punch, chime, thick, organic, tight, etc. Completely and utterly opaque and non-obvious to anyone who is no intimately versed in the guitar culture. And even then what one person thinks those words mean can be different to what somebody else thinks. And even at what point lows become mids or mids become high varies from person to person and even depending on the situation. e.g. vintage treble boosters are functioning as a mid boost because of the high end loss when plugging a guitar direct into such a low input impedance. In short, it's a mess.  |
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Post by Mike the marksman on Nov 24, 2021 8:24:27 GMT -5
James Williamson played a Les Paul into an AC30 on Iggy & The Stooges 'Raw Power' album. That's a pretty brutal album, also Jeff Beck on 'Truth', Richie Blackmore on most Mk.II Deep Purple albums, and there are others.
They're capable of quite a range of tones.
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Post by Leftee on Nov 24, 2021 9:57:21 GMT -5
What’s his name from Guns n Roses played through them too.
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Post by walshb 🦒 on Nov 24, 2021 11:21:49 GMT -5
Obviously, it's any tone from the middle amp setting on this pedal.   |
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Post by funkykikuchiyo on Nov 24, 2021 18:59:46 GMT -5
Obviously, it's any tone from the middle amp setting on this pedal.
But, what if I want tight lows, warm mids and singing highs?!
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Post by Leftee on Nov 24, 2021 19:17:52 GMT -5
Obviously, it's any tone from the middle amp setting on this pedal.
But, what if I want tight lows, warm mids and singing highs?!
And that woody organic tone. |
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Post by walshb 🦒 on Nov 25, 2021 20:49:36 GMT -5
Obviously, it's any tone from the middle amp setting on this pedal. But, what if I want tight lows, warm mids and singing highs?!
I would try the "round" setting for that! |
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Post by walshb 🦒 on Nov 25, 2021 20:50:34 GMT -5
And that woody organic tone. I'd try a Martin acoustic! |
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Post by langford on Nov 26, 2021 17:28:59 GMT -5
But, what if I want tight lows, warm mids and singing highs?!
You need the "butter" upgrade to get those features.  |
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leftrightout
Wholenote
Sometimes I pretend to be normal and then it becomes boring..............
Posts: 206
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Post by leftrightout on Nov 27, 2021 3:03:49 GMT -5
It might be interesting to hear someone grab a Strat or Les Paul, a stompbox, and see if they can get good blues or metal tones out of it. I bet they could.
Editing to add that I remember seeing Paul McCartney play and his backup guitarist had a late model SG (probably stock) going through some Voxes (probably AC30s) and it sounded amazing. It definitely had a recognizable Vox sound, but it was very full and didn't sound "chimey". It sounded somewhere between what you'd expect from a Vox and a Bluesbreaker... which makes sense since the SG is going to be more associated with Marshalls.
quick vid about 2 mins in is a strat through and an old AC30 Brian May recorded with = Watch the whole vid for a listen to Rory Gallaghers Bassman a sweet sounding 64 blackface twin reverd and a Super Bass 100 oh how i would love to plug a guitar in to one of these even just for 5 mins
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Post by LeftyMeister on Dec 6, 2021 9:09:34 GMT -5
One of the other guitar players in our church band has an AC-15. I would describe his tone as full and phat with his Tele and a Morning Glory in front of it. It's a great sound. Of course, he's a great player.
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