The half step manifesto

I hope you have bassists willing to accommodate you.

I have some interest in that tuning and would be willing to buy a bass to tune to Eb (instrument curiosity), but there are some tunings I do not have interest in. If I had a band situation where a guitarist insisted I tune to accommodate him, that is not for me.

Geez. You remind me of me. That's good and bad. LOL

Fact is, if a bass player is keying his playing off of what YOU are playing on your guitar VISUALLY, he's not listening to the music and playing off of that.

And listening to the music is what he SHOULD be doing.

Do musicians gather around a piano player to watch them play to get the proper chords/notes ?

PoppyChicken.

And just for you, I play a 5 string bass with flatwounds that is tuned down whatever I want to tune down to, and there's no flabby strings until
4 or 5 half steps down. This reduces the pressure on the neck and strings and gives me a more rounded, deeper sound. I think I've got it tuned to A right now.

And I don't give a flying moose what key anybody plays in. I listen, I lock, and I play.

It's not that simple for the guitar, but the story is the same. I've got one guitar happily tuned to low B, and the rest tuned to whatever I want...mostly lower than E, most tuned to D. I agree with you that some guitars just sound better low, depending on the amp and/or how the sonic spectrum of the song or band members happen to fall. And some sound better at E or higher.

My problem has always been that my ears are more sensitive to frequencies than most, like some eyes see more colors than most, or brains feel more emotions than most, or bodies feel more pain than most. This extra sensitivity to frequencies often makes me dislike guitar tones and EQ settings that others find "heavenly". And I am often bedeviled by the ever changing EQ needs of guitar sound in practice, band, performance and recording environments. And my own tones can torment me as well, as batteries wear down, as my ears tire from too much volume, and maybe as the air pressure changes, the moisture content changes, how much sleep I get, or the way the moon and planet align. Perhaps I should have been a sound engineer ? Anyway, the point is, yes, DO listen to what YOU hear and be confident in it. It turns out all the elements of a guitar seem to contribute to it's sound in some way and I can attest that I've tried to create 3 backup guitars using essentially the SAME elements as the goal guitars...and I failed every time ! And my story isn't all that rare. The same pickups, the same guitar from the same factory at the same time, the same electronics...none of this guarantees the exact same result. I find this quite astounding, but it's sure proved itself to me ! Anyway, if something sounds better to YOU...always go with it. Because let's get real, it's only fun to play when it sounds GOOD, right ?

Also, a certain guitar pro claims he can always tell a capo is being used on any song. I believe him ! There is a characteristic "capo sound" I've noticed myself. So using a capo is going to change the sound YOU want...and not always in a positive way.

But frankly, no one should give a rip how your guitar is tuned, but you. They should only be paying attention to what chord and note you play.

Now for timing issues...a very interesting topic I haven't fully explored. Why ? Because I use my ears. But there's the crux of time issues. Everyone trying to play together and be tight, must hear each other, and sometimes compensate. This is where the "art" of performance comes in. You're of course right about an environment of millisecond delays going on. A place I started at was back when hard disks didn't have enough speed to record "in real time". In short, humans start to notice a delay longer than 15 milliseconds. So to get "tight", a note impulse must leave your brain, race out to your fingers, wait for a guitar string to vibrate, travel from the pickups down a 30 foot cord, to pedals, then to an amp, and then wait for a speaker to vibrate, then travel as a pulse to the bass player, whose ears pick up the pulse, then calculate the volume, key, note and note value, activate the brain to decide what to do, send a signal down to the fingers, move them to the right note, and wait for the string to vibrate, go through the pickup and down the cord to the amp, wait for the speaker to vibrate and then the whole process starts in the drummer, guitarist, keyboard etc. And all this stuff is happening within 15 milliseconds to stay "tight". The audience won't even hear the bass response for many more milliseconds. So a LOT is going on. And THEN, you decide to syncopate the whole thing.

The bottom line is, every musician worth a dang listens with their ears and brain...not watches other players fingers !

And with all this going on, how WELL everyone can hear each other is critical. And due to distance between players(millisecond of delay or more ?), and how fast sound is traveling THAT DAY(yes, sound travels differently with humidity and temperature I think) plus sound dropoffs, attention blips, etc., how is everybody going to stay in sync ? Well, I think they can't...at least not easily. So one has to FEEL a beat/pulse and everyone has to FEEL it...together. That's an "art". A shared compensation for all the variables in time...in milliseconds. Groups that can do that are "tight", "experienced", and pro level. Unfortunately, it's not that easy as untold numbers of bar bands prove all the time.

As for orchestras, the problem is compounded by more people, and they are packed together to try a help this. But their real secret is, light travels faster than sound ! Rock bands have to rely on their ears and all the millisecond delays involved and use "compensation" or "feel" to lock up. An orchestra uses the much SMALLER delay as light is reflected off a motion of a conductor...nearly instantaneously...to 80 musicians at the same time(practically but not exactly). The conductor can then control the beat and tempo much more accurately than if the orchestra relied on their hearing...trust me !

So should a band have a conductor to be tighter ? Maybe. But what's the fun of that ?

And if you really want to get into the weeds of sound, you will find all sorts of weird things like not all the instrument sounds arrive at the audience at the same time, and the tones you like don't record that well, or that all your carefully crafted sounds and effects don't fit into the total sound spectrum for recording. I haven't really thought about how a singer fits into this, especially if they are a little ahead or behind the beat for style purposes !
I have noticed that the EQ of the guitar can "interfere" with a singer though.

Suffice it to say, no one will ever figure all this stuff out completely. Just gotta try and FEEL it, and make compensations where needed.

And when you hear a really tight band, appreciate the heck out of it !

That's my 3 cents(inflation)

Huh. Any noticeably delay(especially as it gets closer to an octave down?)

Does it work better for bass than guitar ?

How about voice ? Could an average female voice finally be able to sing "Swing low, Sweet chariot...coming for to carry me home...Swee...etc

I'm fine with light gauge acoustic strings at concert pitch. It took some recalibration to adjust to them but I am satisfied. They are only minimally heavier than the EB Skinny Tops Heavy Bottoms on my electrics and my 6 string banjo.

Nice ! I'd treat those guys like royalty if I were you. Hard to find good players that are good teamworkers and communicators !

    Interesting conversation. I have an audition this evening. This is the longest I’ve gone not being in a band for many many years.  It seems to me over the last 5 or 6 years I’m playing mostly songs I’m not familiar with. I do check the guitar for a reference occasionally but the tuning is not critical. I’ll know immediately if that tuning is not standard. Plus I can hear what they are playing and be on top/bottom of it.

    Since I started playing in Feral bands back in 1964 I’ve only had one audition I didn’t get, 1969, they were looking for a bassist that could sing harmonies, not me. The last one doesn’t count, I auditioned, got high compliments and feedback but I didn’t get the gig because the bassist and drummer who previously quit, rejoined this group. Ironically this bassist I knew well about 10 years ago, he tells people it’s because of me that he is a great bassist, he really isn’t, but I did give him some pointers that improved his skills. 

    I’m confident and competent. I have my weakness’ I can’t read charts, so I miss out on a good bit of studio work, though a couple of studios down in the Miami area, who know me, will use me from time to time. I find the studio stuff a bit tedious. Particularly if it’s the band I’m playing with. Of the dozen or so times I’ve recorded I’ve had very few “punch ins” I can only recall 2. The rest of the session I’m just board to tears.

    This group I’m meeting up with this evening have scheduled gigs. The current bassist is their second guitar, that’s cool, I won’t be available to play with them until April sometime. They tell me it’s not a problem. I should probably take my recorder with me. I’ll see how it goes.

    I Had a good audition last night. Played three or four sets with no snags at all, I was next to the piano  with a clear sight of the guitar.  Most of the tunes they even gave me a key, I was on top of it. I can hear the note and play it, if I’m a half steep off it’s no problem, move to the note musically. Victor Wooten personally proved to me that their is no such a thing as a bad note, just bad technique.

    I take the song\melody notes from the guitar and/or keyboard but I am the ambassador of the band, I lock in with the percussionist. The song needs the tempo/backbone of the tune to be locked in. If tempo changes that transition needs to be tight. There is plenty of opportunity for improvisation including tempo but I feel the percussion and bass needs to be lock stepped or at least working together musically. 

He is an incredibly strong player.