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Post by achase4u on Jan 8, 2023 13:27:54 GMT -5
Cool times we are living in. I have a Pultec style EQ by them that usually sits on my 2 bus. It's connected to the Mac via USB and is controllable either by the knobs on the unit or by the plugin it comes with. I ponder whether or not plugins will ever truly nail the sound of hardware, but they are close. In any case, having this option is pretty neat. Nice analog processing but no recall sheets. That's a pretty cool solution if you ask me.
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Post by ninworks on Jan 8, 2023 15:08:34 GMT -5
Plugins are light years better than they used to be and you really have to split hairs to hear the difference but there is a difference. The main advantage plugins have over hardware, other than the obvious recall capabilities, is the noise floor. They have a ridiculously low noise level campared to their analog counterparts. The hybrid thing is a cool option but I am leery of any hardware that uses computer-based software controls. It is far too common that software, computers, and such become obsolete at some point and they won't work anymore. Having hardware controls as well is a good way to eliminate that problem.
I love Pultec style eq's. The way they work is very unique and in a very cool sonic territory because of it. I don't have any hardware Pultecs but have used a number of different plugin versions. About the only other eq out there I have seen, that has similar controls, are the Dangerous BAX eqs. The sound is different and they have some things the Pultecs don't.
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Post by achase4u on Jan 8, 2023 16:46:59 GMT -5
Plugins are light years better than they used to be and you really have to split hairs to hear the difference but there is a difference. The main advantage plugins have over hardware, other than the obvious recall capabilities, is the noise floor. They have a ridiculously low noise level campared to their analog counterparts. The hybrid thing is a cool option but I am leery of any hardware that uses computer-based software controls. It is far too common that software, computers, and such become obsolete at some point and they won't work anymore. Having hardware controls as well is a good way to eliminate that problem. I love Pultec style eq's. The way they work is very unique and in a very cool sonic territory because of it. I don't have any hardware Pultecs but have used a number of different plugin versions. About the only other eq out there I have seen, that has similar controls, are the Dangerous BAX eqs. The sound is different and they have some things the Pultecs don't. Tis true. You'd have to not update your system and just keep banging away on the version that worked. Small companies come and go and you could be left in the wind. The low noise floor in plugs is great. The one detractor that hardware doesn't have is the aliasing issue. Lots of plugs handle that better now but it seems to be a tradeoff, and there are a surprising amount of plugs that do alias that are released(probably for their preference of zero latency processing) Always trade offs out there. I guess practically speaking it all comes down to what saves time and money. If you are running a business, that is. I'll definitely only recall a couple pieces of hardware. No one wants to pay me for that time on a whole mix... Yea I love Bax EQs too. The plugin alliance version is great, so is the Goodhertz version(I forget the name). I think some of the hardware out there does have hardware controls that is also digital controlled(a motor moves the pot itself). Wes audio though are all digital encoders. |
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Post by ninworks on Jan 8, 2023 21:36:54 GMT -5
I have UAD versions of a couple different Pultecs and the BAX EQs. The M/S thing the BAX has is a really nifty feature. IMO the UAD plugins are some of the best out there that I have heard. I'm in love with the Fab Filter stuff as well.
After selling off almost all of my hardware audio processors many years ago I am retrograding and replacing a lot of them with newer versions. The clones have gotten to where they are incredible and there's a lot of value in them. I kind of stumbled into the 500 series stuff but OMG it is a really great platform. It makes high-end analog processing quite affordable compared to what it used to be. I have quite a combination of name brand hardware pieces as well as a few clones. It's a good time to be a recording nerd. The technology has never been better or more affordable.
I do this pro audio thing as a hobby mostly but I am cursed to have done it professionally for decades and my ears are spoiled beyond comprehension. I'm always looking for the best sound I can get for the money I have to spend. I still do some occasional work for hire but not very often. It's not a business by any stretch of the word so the time factor isn't all that important to me.
I use hardware at mixdown but I can't use all of it at once. The RME interface I have only has 8 channels of analog I/O and I have 14 channels of hardware devices at present with more on the way. Re-patching things and then printing the effected tracks is a necessity for me. It's slow but it sounds good. I've only been back on the hardware binge for the last year or so. I'm still figuring out how to integrate it into my digital projects. I use it more and more on every one.
I replaced all my hardware electronic keyboards with software versions. I still have my behemoth Hammond RT3 and a couple Leslies as well as my original DX7 but I sold everything else. I had a room full of keyboards at one point. I kept the DX7 around to use as a second keyboard MIDI controller because I like the keyboard action on it a lot. I can't remember the last time I plugged an audio cable into its output.
This crap all stemmed from a pre-teen kid who wanted to learn how to play guitar. What the heck happened?!
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Post by achase4u on Jan 9, 2023 14:42:56 GMT -5
I have UAD versions of a couple different Pultecs and the BAX EQs. The M/S thing the BAX has is a really nifty feature. IMO the UAD plugins are some of the best out there that I have heard. I'm in love with the Fab Filter stuff as well. After selling off almost all of my hardware audio processors many years ago I am retrograding and replacing a lot of them with newer versions. The clones have gotten to where they are incredible and there's a lot of value in them. I kind of stumbled into the 500 series stuff but OMG it is a really great platform. It makes high-end analog processing quite affordable compared to what it used to be. I have quite a combination of name brand hardware pieces as well as a few clones. It's a good time to be a recording nerd. The technology has never been better or more affordable. I do this pro audio thing as a hobby mostly but I am cursed to have done it professionally for decades and my ears are spoiled beyond comprehension. I'm always looking for the best sound I can get for the money I have to spend. I still do some occasional work for hire but not very often. It's not a business by any stretch of the word so the time factor isn't all that important to me. I use hardware at mixdown but I can't use all of it at once. The RME interface I have only has 8 channels of analog I/O and I have 14 channels of hardware devices at present with more on the way. Re-patching things and then printing the effected tracks is a necessity for me. It's slow but it sounds good. I've only been back on the hardware binge for the last year or so. I'm still figuring out how to integrate it into my digital projects. I use it more and more on every one. I replaced all my hardware electronic keyboards with software versions. I still have my behemoth Hammond RT3 and a couple Leslies as well as my original DX7 but I sold everything else. I had a room full of keyboards at one point. I kept the DX7 around to use as a second keyboard MIDI controller because I like the keyboard action on it a lot. I can't remember the last time I plugged an audio cable into its output. This crap all stemmed from a pre-teen kid who wanted to learn how to play guitar. What the heck happened?! Yea, the UAD stuff is really good. Some closer than others. I use Fabfilter a lot as it just solves problems so well and has great interfacing. The thing that I am curious about is while I agree there is a minor(or sometimes not so minor) difference in the hardware to the plugin, do those differences add up and accumulate over a whole mix, same with aliasing. If I have a "pretty close" 1176/la-2a/etc on 12 tracks vs that little bit of extra goodness in hardware adding up, does it make for a more obvious difference? I think yes. Then again, I can't compare as I don't have enough gear or channels to mix 1:1. All that aside, there are bad analog recordings and mixes, too. More about the song and what you do with the plugins or gear in the end. Oh yes. I have a couple racks full of 500 series. Much of it I built. CAPI is phenomenal gear. Just great stuff available. It's never been a better time to record, really. I do the same as you. When a client sends me tracks they are usually dead dry no fx no nothing. Mic->pre->converters->hard drive->me. So I will print the individual tracks through some EQ and comp and maybe soem RND 542s for saturation etc. That's step one before mixing. "Pre" mixing, I guess. Pretty cool but time consuming. That's something I'd like to avoid. Time is more valuable to me as I get older. I have Arturia's plugins and their DX7. That's cool you have an original. I wonder how you think it would compare with the Arturia. Its all too much fun, so here we are! Guitar into small studios! |
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Post by ninworks on Jan 9, 2023 18:33:15 GMT -5
I think....I KNOW that the hardware sounds better. I have done comparisons. It's not night and day though. It can't help but be cumulative. Still using only plugins can make some great sounding tracks.
I have the Arturia bundle as well. I did a side-by-side comparison between their Minimoog V and the real deal before I sold mine. The real one sounded slightly better but not enough to justify the amount of money I sold it for. I also did side-by-side comparisons between the UAD 1176 plugin and the Warm Audio WA76 clone and the clone sounded considerably better than the plugin. I didn't sound the same as the plugin but the hardware was deeper and more 3 dimensional and had more mojo than the plugin model of the real deal. I also have the Kit plugin that modeled the Neve 8078 channel in the console in Blackbird Studios here in Nashville. I compared the sound of it to the Great River MP-500NV mic pre hardware and the plugin was surprisingly good compared to the hardware when inserting each into a track in Pro Tools. That Great River preamp is a monster. A REALLY nice piece of gear.
I haven't compared the real DX7 to the Arturia. Whenever I want FM synthesis type sounds I usually go to Native Instruments' FM7 or FM8. The DX7 doesn't hold a candle to either of those. I haven't had my DX7 out of the case in a couple years. The battery in it has probably died and all the sounds are gone. That's an easy fix though if that's the case.
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Post by achase4u on Jan 9, 2023 20:06:42 GMT -5
I think....I KNOW that the hardware sounds better. I have done comparisons. It's not night and day though. It can't help but be cumulative. Still using only plugins can make some great sounding tracks. I have the Arturia bundle as well. I did a side-by-side comparison between their Minimoog V and the real deal before I sold mine. The real one sounded slightly better but not enough to justify the amount of money I sold it for. I also did side-by-side comparisons between the UAD 1176 plugin and the Warm Audio WA76 clone and the clone sounded considerably better than the plugin. I didn't sound the same as the plugin but the hardware was deeper and more 3 dimensional and had more mojo than the plugin model of the real deal. I also have the Kit plugin that modeled the Neve 8078 channel in the console in Blackbird Studios here in Nashville. I compared the sound of it to the Great River MP-500NV mic pre hardware and the plugin was surprisingly good compared to the hardware when inserting each into a track in Pro Tools. That Great River preamp is a monster. A REALLY nice piece of gear. I haven't compared the real DX7 to the Arturia. Whenever I want FM synthesis type sounds I usually go to Native Instruments' FM7 or FM8. The DX7 doesn't hold a candle to either of those. I haven't had my DX7 out of the case in a couple years. The battery in it has probably died and all the sounds are gone. That's an easy fix though if that's the case. That KIT plugin is special, I think. I have it and it's really a great Neve strip for sure. The Great River stuff is second to none. That guy has fixed gear out of warranty, too. Just a standup guy as far as I have heard. I'd have a hard time beating the Great River Harrison EQ for a great OTB tracking and mixing EQ. Very cool on the Arturia! Glad you could compare those. I built a Hairball Audio 1176 revision D clone, and honestly, the UAD rev E sounds very close to me. The hardware just has a bit more of that open/3d thing. I can usually get away with more db of gain reduction in hardware land. The CAPI FC526 is insane for that. It's a real stealth comp. It's sort of 1176 meets API in a weird way. I would love to have enough of a hybrid setup to mix at least partly OTB. But that becomes hard to jump between projects which I do allllllll the time. Between clients, between songs in one clients album etc. That's what has me thinking of the Wes Audio Titan. Toss some comps and EQs in there and all of them instantly recall as I open a session... but it is a gamble... |
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Post by reverendrob on Jan 9, 2023 23:15:45 GMT -5
The Klark-Teknik (Behringer) Pultec is stupid good, not just for the money.
It's more than a hair split better than any plugin I've tried, and well, I prefer actual knobs.
I need to get more of them at some point.
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Post by ninworks on Jan 10, 2023 8:51:02 GMT -5
The Klark-Teknik (Behringer) Pultec is stupid good, not just for the money. It's more than a hair split better than any plugin I've tried, and well, I prefer actual knobs. I need to get more of them at some point. I am out of rack space in my 19" rack. Anything I buy in the way of hardware from now on is going to be 500 series stuff. I really don't want to have to get a different rack and rewire it again after just completing it not long ago. Even if I run out of space in the 500 rack I can swap things in and out of it very quickly and easily and nothing has to be rewired. It's just 2 thumbscrews, slide the module out, put another one back in its place, and reinstall the screws. I could do that in less than 5 minutes. Lindell makes a 2 space 500 series Pultec clone for $500. I may do that eventually. For now any Pultec eq needs will have to be met with the UAD plugins. They work quite well but I haven't made any comparisons to any hardware units yet. |
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Post by achase4u on Jan 10, 2023 13:30:57 GMT -5
The Klark-Teknik (Behringer) Pultec is stupid good, not just for the money. It's more than a hair split better than any plugin I've tried, and well, I prefer actual knobs. I need to get more of them at some point. I am out of rack space in my 19" rack. Anything I buy in the way of hardware from now on is going to be 500 series stuff. I really don't want to have to get a different rack and rewire it again after just completing it not long ago. Even if I run out of space in the 500 rack I can swap things in and out of it very quickly and easily and nothing has to be rewired. It's just 2 thumbscrews, slide the module out, put another one back in its place, and reinstall the screws. I could do that in less than 5 minutes. Lindell makes a 2 space 500 series Pultec clone for $500. I may do that eventually. For now any Pultec eq needs will have to be met with the UAD plugins. They work quite well but I haven't made any comparisons to any hardware units yet. I think the one to beat in 500 series is the Pulse Tec branded one. Kind of high but pretty well guaranteed to eat the plugin. Though it's tube(plugin) vs SS so they just won't sound the same anyway... My Prometheus is a good Pultec but its just different sounding without the tubes. The UA version is one of their best plugins, too. Hmmmm |
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Post by ninworks on Jan 10, 2023 14:46:22 GMT -5
The UA one is what I use for a Pultec. It sounds very good.
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Post by reverendrob on Jan 10, 2023 21:50:53 GMT -5
Yea, I can't quite justify going 500 at this point - I have space left in my 19" and have a second setup for them in the studio/shop as well.
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