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Post by jonnyblooz on Dec 30, 2023 11:42:06 GMT -5
I have a 62 reissue strat that is in desperate need of a refret job. I was looking to go with bigger frets, but with the 7.25 radius of a vintage spec board, I'm wondering if I should stick with the vintage fret wires that were on it. Any experience with stepping up fret sizes on the vintage style Strats? Stainless is out on this, I'm too old and won't be around long enough to wear these out. It's not my main guitar, but it is a great players guitar.
I would be doing solo work, bending and whatnot in addition to chording.
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Post by funkykikuchiyo on Dec 30, 2023 12:01:30 GMT -5
6230 is the dunlop number associated with "vintage" frets. 6105 is a bigger fret - not too wide, but really tall. How much time did you get out of the original frets? If you got 20 years out of them, then refretting with the same ones might be fine. If you want a big fret, go for a big fret. The radius in itself won't have any bearing on what fret wire you can use, you can put any fret into any FB radius you want. If you want to leave as much vintage vibe as possible but want some extra height, the Stew Mac #155 wire is great. Think the height of a medium jumbo/jumbo wire, but vintage width. They feel great, they don't turn the guitar into a "modern" guitar. I've done this on vintage and vintage style guitars many times and it always goes well - the customers who are worried about a bigger fret killing the vibe/tone are always very happy. It has a small tang, so it goes in easily into vintage guitars that might have a very skinny fingerboard, though that shouldn't be an issue for you. The #152 is a funny goldilocks wire - never stands out as big or small. It is just sort of... there. I put it in acoustics when someone wants something a bit bigger, and they never feel like they've been fretted like an electric. The #154 is what I like for the "medium jumbo".... a bit narrower and a bit taller than the typical 6150, which is usually what is called "medium jumbo". www.stewmac.com/luthier-tools-and-supplies/materials/fretwire/
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Post by Auf Kiltre on Dec 30, 2023 14:47:12 GMT -5
I had a capable friend refret my favorite Allparts neck with stainless vintage wire. I did all the leveling, crowning, dressing afterwards. Tedious and probably could use some more fret end cleanup but glad I stuck with the vintage size. I've decided I'm not a big fan of 6105 wire. I have several guitars with that wire and while I can play them just fine think I much prefer 6150 wire, but never had it on a vintage radius neck. The goldilocks wire that Funky references above sounds interesting. I wonder if it's closer to what Allparts uses on their vintage style necks, which seem a bit bigger than traditional 6230 wire.
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Post by funkykikuchiyo on Dec 30, 2023 15:23:42 GMT -5
Stew Mac sizing is really different from other brands, which is part of why I love using them. Getting good in between sizes is really hard in other brands, even though other brands are arguably better made. A lot of my customers get nervous asking about fret sizes, because often the options can seem like either vintage or railroad tracks with no points in between.
The #152 (which I called goldilocks) is .092"x.048"... so, wider than vintage, but narrower than most anything else we'd call "medium". To compare, 6105s are only .094" wide, but that can get confusing because there are a LOT of frets out there people THINK are 6105 but aren't, so a person's frame of reference can be off when they ask for 6105. They aren't tiny, but you still hear/feel some fingerboard in there. The #155 is .080"x".050"... the width is at the top end of the range to be considered "vintage" (usually the high 70s), but at .050" tall, it is pushing "jumbo" status. They kinda feel like a vintage fret that you can get your fingers under for bending. At quick glance they seem like a vintage fret that is just a bit abnormally tall - they don't look weird at all.
Fret sizes can seem different depending on whether there is a FB finish or not, and factory fret dresses can sometimes be pretty aggressive. Other times, there are just weird perception issues I can't figure out. I have the stainless #152 that I SWEAR is smaller than the regular one when I put it in, but my calipers say they're the same.
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Post by Auf Kiltre on Dec 30, 2023 17:05:48 GMT -5
Just looked at my previous Allparts purchase specs of their vintage necks. Their specs show a fret dimension of .079 × .043. Dunlop 6230 frets are .078 x .043. I doubt that I actually feel the .001 difference 😁
Now the SRO Fat Strat neck has a 9.5" radius and .079 x .055 frets.
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Post by jonnyblooz on Dec 30, 2023 18:40:54 GMT -5
Great information guys. Gives me a lot to look into. I really appreciate it.
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Post by Auf Kiltre on Dec 30, 2023 19:02:53 GMT -5
I've always wanted to try 6150's on a 7.25" radius. Seems like it'd be a good size to try and compound the upper frets to a flatter radius.
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Post by funkykikuchiyo on Dec 30, 2023 19:52:12 GMT -5
I've always wanted to try 6150's on a 7.25" radius. Seems like it'd be a good size to try and compound the upper frets to a flatter radius. It looks a little strange because we're used to seeing big frets on flat boards and narrow frets on round boards, but it works fine. And yeah, letting you hit the centers of the frets pretty hard with a block is a nice advantage of a bigger fret. I generally don't flatten boards too much during a refret because you run the risk of changing the sound, but I will give those fret centers some extra love if I have enough material to work with. If you're in 6150 territory, check the StewMac #154.... .100"x.050", so a bit narrower and a bit taller than 6150.
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Post by Larry Madsen on Dec 30, 2023 19:54:52 GMT -5
I'm quite good with vintage frets.
Memory tells me Lee Sklar had a story about a bass that he had re-fretted with small vintage frets, and I believe he said he liked them ... even on that bass.
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Post by funkykikuchiyo on Dec 30, 2023 21:19:22 GMT -5
That reminds me of the one and only time I pulled out giant frets to put in vintage frets. A guy bought a CS Tele, but was too used to little frets and was pulling it out of tune. It definitely gave it a different sound, and to my ears you "hear" the fingerboard more with smaller/lower frets. It was an interesting experiment, because refrets happen in that direction so rarely. It was a pretty big jump, too. I don't remember what frets were in there, but Fender Custom Shop sometimes does Dunlop 6100s or 6000s and it might have been those.
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Post by Auf Kiltre on Dec 30, 2023 21:33:02 GMT -5
That's an interesting take, funky. I never thought about fret size factoring into things as is relates to fingerboard contact. I've been a long time monkey gripper which probably explains my preference for smaller frets. But I never equated it to having an effect on tone.
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Post by jonnyblooz on Jan 3, 2024 19:01:41 GMT -5
Thanks for the input all. I've decided to go with Jescar Nickel Silver FW47095 Electric Medium Pre-radiused. Billed as "Vintage Medium", just slightly taller and wider than the stock vintage. I really just want a slightly wider fret, not really tall, so I think this will suit me. We'll see what happens.
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Post by Auf Kiltre on Jan 4, 2024 10:43:48 GMT -5
That looks like a good compromise 👍
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Post by Leftee on Jan 4, 2024 11:05:16 GMT -5
Let us know your thoughts after they're installed! Wandering on with this topic... I've gravitated to a bit of a hybrid fret profile lately. I've been ordering necks with Warmoth's (Jescar) 6115 wire. warmoth.com/guitar-neck-fret-optionsIt's a SS offering that is, essentially, a peaked version of medium Jumbo. I really like the way these frets set up and play. I've been on the SS kick for a while now. Harder to work on, for sure. But I love the durability.
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Post by funkykikuchiyo on Jan 6, 2024 11:14:10 GMT -5
Thanks for the input all. I've decided to go with Jescar Nickel Silver FW47095 Electric Medium Pre-radiused. Billed as "Vintage Medium", just slightly taller and wider than the stock vintage. I really just want a slightly wider fret, not really tall, so I think this will suit me. We'll see what happens. That looks like a nice size, and in the neighborhood of the #152 "goldilocks" fret I mentioned above. But, the tang looks smaller, so it looks like it'll be easier to work with.
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Post by funkykikuchiyo on Jan 6, 2024 11:36:12 GMT -5
That's an interesting take, funky. I never thought about fret size factoring into things as is relates to fingerboard contact. I've been a long time monkey gripper which probably explains my preference for smaller frets. But I never equated it to having an effect on tone. Yeah, I wouldn't put it super high on the "things that affect tone" list, but it is somewhere above body finish and capacitor dielectric, but below pickups and hardware choices. I think a Tele is a good example of it making a difference because the envelope of the note gets drier as the fret gets bigger, so a warm twang becomes harder and harder. It is also an instrument that is probably going to be played with the kind of clean tone that will let you hear those differences the most.
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