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Post by Larry Madsen on Jan 29, 2024 15:27:51 GMT -5
I have my Symour Duncan diagram and a generic diagram . The SD is for dual controls (4 pots). The other for singular controls (2 pots) ... If that makes a difference. I notice: The generic diagram (top of image) connects volume left pole to tone center pole, then cap from right pole to ground. The SD diagram (bottom of image) connects volume left pole to tone left pole, then cap from center pole to ground. Is this a difference that does not impact operation or is there something more here I should be paying attention to.  tone pot wiring by Larry Madsen, on Flickr |
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pdf64
Wholenote
Posts: 557
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Post by pdf64 on Jan 29, 2024 19:19:41 GMT -5
Electrically they’re the same.
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Post by Leftee on Jan 29, 2024 19:39:41 GMT -5
I wire my builds and other guitars using this setup. I find it precludes needing a treble bleed setup on the volume pot.  |
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Post by Larry Madsen on Jan 29, 2024 23:22:56 GMT -5
pdf64 ... How does the diagram above from Leftee compare "electrically" to the others ... if it can be easily explained.  I have a curious mind.  |
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Post by funkykikuchiyo on Jan 30, 2024 8:37:50 GMT -5
A bit of a tangent, but I've always wondered the difference when the signal path is hot > pot > cap > ground versus hot > cap > pot > ground. I've never heard a difference, though I've never A/Bed them, either. Seems weirder that there wouldn't be any difference, but that may just be my limited understanding of electronics. Maybe it doesn't matter if you have a resistor and a capacitor in series which order they are put in?
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Post by Larry Madsen on Jan 30, 2024 8:46:02 GMT -5
Funky, based on your narrative there and implementing my (common sense thinking) with limited electronic knowledge … it would seem to me that even Leftee’s diagram fits in that same mold.
Hot to capacitor to resistor to ground.
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Post by Leftee on Jan 30, 2024 10:08:48 GMT -5
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pdf64
Wholenote
Posts: 557
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Post by pdf64 on Jan 30, 2024 10:45:21 GMT -5
The tone control circuit is what’s referred to as a ‘series circuit’.
In a series circuit the order of the components doesn’t make any difference.
So ‘cap then variable resistance’ = ‘variable resistance then cap’.
There’s an argument that with some film caps, the might be an theoretical improvement in regard of picking up environmental electrical fields (eg buzz) if the outer foil lead of the cap was connected to a shield / circuit common / ground.
I tested this in my Les Paul R8 (totally unshielded cavities) and couldn’t perceive any difference. It’s pretty quiet anyway.
So I suggest not to worry about it, just use what component layout seems most practicable.
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Post by Larry Madsen on Jan 30, 2024 11:04:22 GMT -5
Thanks pdf64, that is helpful. Thanks for the links Leftee, also helpful. |
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pdf64
Wholenote
Posts: 557
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Post by pdf64 on Jan 30, 2024 11:33:13 GMT -5
With regard to 50s wiring compared to standard, 50s makes the tone and volume controls somewhat interactive.
More when the tone is turned down at least a bit.
Such that a tone setting at say 4 will be a little bit muffled at full volume, but the tonal balance becomes much brighter at anything less than full volume.
It can be a nice effect, but overall I find it a bit of a pain, I prefer standard tone wiring.
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Post by Leftee on Jan 30, 2024 11:38:12 GMT -5
I played around with the volume/tone configuration and landed on the '50s style. It's all quite subjective. For a couple decades I never had a guitar that had a working tone control. That was because lefty guitars came wired left-handed but standard (right-handed) audio taper pots were used. For 20 years I literally did not know that the tone control was actually meant to *really* work. 🤣 |
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pdf64
Wholenote
Posts: 557
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Post by pdf64 on Jan 30, 2024 12:21:33 GMT -5
Sorry, I know there’s a clue in the name, but I’m a bit slow on the uptake Are reverse audio pots available for guitar controls? If so is that what you use, or does linear work better for you? |
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Post by Leftee on Jan 30, 2024 12:48:25 GMT -5
They are available. But once I uncovered the issue (thank you, innerwebs) I just started wiring my guitars righty. That also works out for numbered knobs. I didn't have to buy reverse numbered knobs. I'm so used to this that it's my go-to.
Gibson has always known to wire their lefties righty. Higher end Fenders are wired righty. Lower end Fenders - no... so the tone controls don't work right. They have no affect on the tone until the very end of the sweep. Then they instantly go to mud.
Interesting little story about this. Years ago I bought a new Reverend and, of course, they wired the pots lefty. The tone control worked like I described above (aka didn't work). I wrote to Reverend about this issue. They said no one had ever complained so it's not an issue. I replied that the quality card that came with the guitar said it had been tested and everything worked. I asked them to grab a lefty out of inventory and try it. They replied to tell me that no dealer or customer had ever complained so they weren't changing it.
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Post by Larry Madsen on Jan 30, 2024 18:06:04 GMT -5
While talking about "wiring" ... I have another question.
What would be the smallest gauge wire practical for wiring guitars?
Those PUP wires are tiny, I have to believe the entire system could work just fine on very small wire.
I'm think of ordering a few spools to have on hand when needed.
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Post by Leftee on Jan 30, 2024 18:29:53 GMT -5
I like 22 awg cloth push-back.
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Post by Leftee on Jan 30, 2024 18:33:44 GMT -5
Re: volume/tone wiring
Many players don’t use the volume and/or tone controls. So all the discussion, above, would be nothing in their world.
It’s all good.
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Post by funkykikuchiyo on Jan 31, 2024 10:15:16 GMT -5
I never understood why a lefty guitar would need backwards controls. Clockwise turns things up, this is a pretty intuitive UI principle. Does a right hand drive car's stereo volume control work backwards, because you're using the other hand to turn it?
I guess the answer is "pinky swells", but c'mon... how many people REALLY do that more than once or twice when they're bored?
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Post by Leftee on Jan 31, 2024 10:18:16 GMT -5
I never understood why a lefty guitar would need backwards controls. Clockwise turns things up, this is a pretty intuitive UI principle. Does a right hand drive car's stereo volume control work backwards, because you're using the other hand to turn it? I guess the answer is "pinky swells", but c'mon... how many people REALLY do that more than once or twice when they're bored? That’s where I am as a lefty. Well put! |
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