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Post by budg on Jan 2, 2020 7:30:21 GMT -5
I ve only had dreads over the years and looking for something different. Tried an OM and wasn’t crazy about it . I am thinking my next stop is 0 00 and 000 land. Am I missing anything?
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Post by bluzcat on Jan 2, 2020 8:49:27 GMT -5
Budg, I’ve been looking at similar. What did you not like about the OM? Was it the scale length?
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Post by langford on Jan 2, 2020 9:18:31 GMT -5
How many OM-style guitars have you tried, budg? I'm wondering if your reaction had more to do with the overall charactistics of the guitars you're playing as opposed to the body shape. I'm the opposite side of the equation. Generally, I don't like dreads. They're too big for me, so I gravitate toward OMs and smaller body guitars. Sometimes, though, I come across dreadnaughts that just feel right. I don't even notice the body size/shape.
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swampyankee
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Fakin' it 'til I'm makin' it since 1956
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Post by swampyankee on Jan 2, 2020 9:28:20 GMT -5
I'm coming from the opposite side. I've been playing either cheap dreads or my 000 Martin. Getting back to acoustic playing, I'm just now learning about the differences of the guitar styles, and starting my search for a good, solid top dreadnought.
As langford states, the 000 and OM size bodies are alot more comfortable to play, sitting down anyway. And I like the crisp tones for fingerpicking. But they do lack bottom end and resonance.
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Post by langford on Jan 2, 2020 9:46:15 GMT -5
swampyankee... Agreed. Dreads and OMs/000 are very different beasts. My preference for smaller body guitars is really about fit and comfort. But a good dread is a wonderful thing...
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Post by jefe46 on Jan 2, 2020 10:18:57 GMT -5
For years I played dreads, specifically Martin D-18S ,D-18VS, D-35S, Etc. All 12 fret slopers.
Because of serious injuries, to include ball broken off right shoulder and severe rotator cuff damage, I cannot play dreads without considerable discomfort.
I went back to my earlier choice of guitar, 00. My first guitar purchased in 1961 was a 1939 Martin 00-17. I currently have a 2015 Martin 00-18V with very rare, highly figured mahogany backs and sides. The model is now discontinued, and replaced with a 00-18 that has similar specifications.
For the, close to dreadnaught, commanding bass, but ease of play because of the body shape, I have a 1997 0000-1 (quad ought), one of 370 made. This is my second. Sold the first, which I bought new, and missed it so found another. Spruce top, solid high quality back, and very high quality laminated sides. This body style is also known as the M. Some models of the M are now available. Essentially it is the J body (jumbo) but the depth of a 000 or OM. Good for fingerpicking or flatpicking, or any other style. Comfort, playability and tone.
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Post by budg on Jan 2, 2020 10:19:18 GMT -5
Thanks guys. I think what it was with the OM was the scale size. I wanted something not only comfortable, but easier to play. My guitars right now are a D18 with mediums that I use for bluegrass and playing live because of the pickup, and a 70s d35 strung with lights.
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Viera
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Posts: 35
Formerly Known As: Viera
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Post by Viera on Jan 2, 2020 11:04:46 GMT -5
A Martin OM should have the same scale length (25.5") as a D18. Scale length of OM's by other makers could vary. My Eastman OM is 25.0". I do think that dreads rule. A good one can be crisp sounding. My Gibson Advanced Jumbo has a big thumpy low end but is balanced with very distinct highs and mids.
jefe46, good to see you over here. If I ever have physical issues playing a dread I might try a 0000.
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Post by budg on Jan 2, 2020 12:15:36 GMT -5
I agree dreads rule. I really like the present stable of my D18 and D35. So different in the way they sound and play. I actually love the way the V neck feels that the D35 is my go to guitar for most things. I also like the lights on it right now because it makes it easier to fingerpick. I may put a K and K in it at some point so I can play it live.
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Post by MacDoof on Jan 2, 2020 12:37:28 GMT -5
Have you's thought about the Martin 000 Jr10 Small bodied. Im thinking of picking one up. Quite a full sound for the size and a good finger picker. Good volume too. I'm a dreadnaught player myself but sometimes they can be a bit uncumfy! I have rotator cuff damage too.
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Post by hushnel on Jan 2, 2020 13:06:44 GMT -5
I’ve only owned one dread and that was back the mid 70s. I prefer the balanced tone of the smaller bodies. My first was the mid 90s when I was ambushed by a Martin 0015 at a Sam Ash in Miami. Wonderful tone. I’m shopping now for a parlor sized guitar. I’m looking at this Martin custom 18 style 00 Adirondack Sinker Mahogany 12-fret. I hope to sell off a high percentage of my basses to cover some of the cost of this. Great guitars come in all styles, the smaller body size seems to me to have the greatest rounded tone. Also my right arm is 50% paralyzed from a car accident back in the late 70s. I can play fine but the dreads make my hand and fingers numb in short order. I’m finding that other than tone and body size the wider nuts have become more important to me. Scale length is not an issue. I can go from 41 inch fretless to a 13” ukulele from one tune to the next. While I do appreciate the near piano tones of the D35 I still prefer the mahogany with spruce top. Both of my Martins are solid Mahogany top and back. I love them and I want a steel string spruce top for my next 00 or parlor size guitar.
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Post by Peegoo 🏁 on Jan 2, 2020 13:13:20 GMT -5
Even if you prefer the tone and cannon-like boom of a dread, it really makes sense to also have a smaller-bodied guitar because they're supremely more comfy to play.
This is important because you will practice/play guitar *more*, and when you need that big sound when it counts, get out the dread.
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Post by CellarCat on Jan 2, 2020 13:49:59 GMT -5
Played a HD28 and a Gibson Hummingbird as well as a few cheap dreads for years until my local shop guy said “ oh you have to checkout this guitar we just got in “ . It was a new Clapton signature 000-28 EC .Martin . Wow , first time I ever bought a guitar on the spot . Usually I think it over lots and do research etc. It is the nicest sounding acoustic I have ever personally played or heard . The guy called me about a month later and said we got a replacement one in stock but he didn’t think it sounded as good as he remembered mine sounding . So I took mine down and we played them both for about an hour and we agreed there was something about mine that sounded way better . Not that the other one didn’t sound good but just not the same as mine . One of the reasons why I would never buy a guitar without having it in my hands first . So this guitar has pretty much become the only acoustic I play to the point where I sold off my other expensive dreads . just love the smaller body size , way more comfortable to play and I didn’t really notice any drop off in volume compared to the dreads I had .
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Post by FlyonNylon on Jan 2, 2020 13:57:13 GMT -5
I have a concert sized Yamaha (AC3R) that is a real joy to play. It lives in the corner on a guitar stand so I can pick it up anytime and play.
Still prefer the D18 to really get going but the yammi is a great guitar if you want something smaller but don't wanna spend $3k.
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Southern Man
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Formerly "SecondHoneymoon" on the FDP
Posts: 15
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Post by Southern Man on Jan 2, 2020 14:27:42 GMT -5
I have two Martin dreds, but I'm on the lookout for a 00-18 or 000-18. Mahogany seems to cut through in a jam a bit better than RW (but those 000-28 EC's can be REALLY nice!). They can still be pretty loud, and sit very nicely in your lap. I play live occasionally, so in addition to the fact that body size probably has little effect on your plugged in sound, I find the thinner body depth more comfortable.
Remember, although a general rule, OM's and dreads are usually long scale. 000's (same body dimensions as the OM) are usually short scale, which I find the most comfortable to play. The shorter scale is just a little easier on my fingers, and as someone with shorter fingers, I like the very minimal change in scale.
My observations are primarily based on Martin products, but lots of companies copy their body styles so hopefully it will carry over.
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swampyankee
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Fakin' it 'til I'm makin' it since 1956
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Post by swampyankee on Jan 2, 2020 15:19:46 GMT -5
My 000c-16 is the shorter scale, which I never realized til now. When I bought it, I just walked into GC and tried what I thought I wanted, and then picked up the 000c-16 and thought, "Now this is much better" without doing really any research. Good to know about the OM being longer scale. I'm curious to know what it brings to the sound as opposed to short scale. Besides, I've been playing Fender electrics all my life. I'm pretty used to a 25.5" scale.
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Post by Lefty Rev on Jan 2, 2020 15:34:38 GMT -5
You could also try a different *shape* without going to a smaller size. Martin makes the Jumbo (J-40), which feels a little better under your arm, but in my opinion and experience doesn't lose any of the depth and thump dreads are known for.
The J-40 isn't cheap, but you could look for a used one - they're around.
I also have a custom shop "J-18" like a D-18 but with the jumbo body size/shape. Love it as much as my J-40; they're wonderful guitars. After I got them I no longer missed my D-18, and I sold my D-35 not long after getting the J-40; it was just so much more of everything than the D-35!
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Post by jefe46 on Jan 2, 2020 18:09:13 GMT -5
OM guitars.
This was a Martin creation for Perry Bechtel. Long scale (25.4) 14 frets to the body, 1 3/4" nut width, 2 5/16th- 2 3/8ths bridge string spacing. and the "abbreviated" pickguard, on a 000 body.
Most makers use these specs. The notable exception is Eastman.. with an almost 1 3/4 nut but strings spaced as if it were 1 11/16ths. Larger pick-guard, Short 25" scale and about 2 1/8th string spacing at the bridge. This bridge spacing and the nut spacing counters the original intent of a "finger-pickers" guitar. Also the shorter scale gives a different feel more in keeping with 00s and 000s. I would characterize their attempt as a flatpicker Jr.
I like both OMs , as built by Martin, and also 00s, but prefer both over 000s of which I have owned a few. My favorite 000s are vintage 12 fret slot head, these are remarkable instruments.
Jumbos. I like Jumbos but with the thinner body with the same plantilla (shape/footprint) of the Jumbo make it much easier on the arm and shoulder.
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Post by budg on Jan 2, 2020 19:24:24 GMT -5
All great input ! It’s tough to find these other body styles in stock anywhere. We are taking a trip up near LaCrosse soon and I might just stop in at Daves and run the racks . I think a hog body with a spruce top is what I seek.
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Post by jhawkr on Jan 3, 2020 7:23:42 GMT -5
Another 00028EC owner here. I had a K&K Pure Mini put in by EM Shorts as I was afraid to attempt it on such a nice guitar. Soft V neck and short scale is very comfortable to play. All my best acoustics are short scale, J-45 and T5z and none are dreads.
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swampyankee
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Fakin' it 'til I'm makin' it since 1956
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Post by swampyankee on Jan 3, 2020 7:30:06 GMT -5
Another 00028EC owner here. I had a K&K Pure Mini put in by EM Shorts as I was afraid to attempt it on such a nice guitar. Soft V neck and short scale is very comfortable to play. All my best acoustics are short scale, J-45 and T5z and none are dreads. Jhawker, how would you characterize the J-45? I've sort of lumped them in with dreads, and they are on my shortliast along with a D-18.
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Post by jhawkr on Jan 3, 2020 9:49:13 GMT -5
The J45 is very responsive. It’s a loud guitar and has a very sweet tone. It’s easily the lightest guitar I own. The top is very thin and light so it doesn’t take a heavy picking or strumming hand to get it moving. I have to keep it humidified as the top will start warping (for lack of a better word). A few days humidity will bring it back to normal. I bought it @ EM Shorts brand new in 2002??? It was $1350 then. One of a very few guitars I own that have appreciated in value.
Guess I didn’t answer the question. It is a dread but I don’t think of it that way because of the way it feels and plays. Round shoulders, short scale, extremely light, not like typical dreads.
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Post by hushnel on Jan 3, 2020 11:41:40 GMT -5
This is a kind of Acoustic Guitar, it’s a beast. It doesn’t put out the volume that you would expect from such large body but the tone and growl is marvelous. A couple of weeks ago I installed a set of transducers from JJB Electronics. Took my time but it was a simple job. I’d do on a top end Martin in a heart beat, I have spent a lot of time working on instruments and have the right tools.
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Tall-Fir
Wholenote
Liking both kinds of music—Country and Western!
Posts: 109
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Post by Tall-Fir on Jan 3, 2020 22:25:02 GMT -5
Hi everybody, Tall-Fir here with my first Moes2 post. I only have one acoustic guitar. It is a Martin D35. Lately I have been learning some new fiddle tunes and concentrating on flatpicking up the neck. Although I really like my guitar and it’s tone, being really loud even with light strings, I’ve always thought I would like a D18. Just haven’t got there yet. My brother has a pre war 00-18. He is a finger picker and blues player. That guitar has just wonderful tone. I should just take it from him someday, LOL. I found it for him back in the early 70s. So, to answer the question at hand, I wouldn’t be afraid to go small at all. A different tone for sure, but very fine nonetheless less.
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Post by jefe46 on Jan 4, 2020 13:15:55 GMT -5
Unlike the rest of the Martin dreads, the D-35 has 1/4 " braces, not 5/16 ths. And yours likely are not scalloped.
My all time favorite Martin was my 1969 D-35 S 12 fret slot head.
Since that time I have owned only mahogany Martins. Several D-18S series and several 00 and 000 and 0000.
The D-18 is the standard, I would look for the discontinued D-18V.
For smaller bodied consider the Smartwood series of years past to include the SWOM or the 16 series with dovetail necks from the late 80s early 90s.
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Tall-Fir
Wholenote
Liking both kinds of music—Country and Western!
Posts: 109
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Post by Tall-Fir on Jan 4, 2020 17:24:26 GMT -5
Hi jefe46. Actually my D-35 bracing is scalloped. I had it done in Spokane by a violin maker who used planes about the size of a large thumb nail. I always thought that was a great mod because it seemed to really open up the guitar’s sound. Anyway, if I thought I needed another dreadnaught, I would certainly try for one of the D-18s that you mentioned.
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Post by jefe46 on Jan 4, 2020 20:57:15 GMT -5
Cool on the scalloping. D-35 models, besides my 12 fret S, have long been some of my favorites. Love the bound fingerboard.
The D-18V was a fantastic guitar.
The D-16s of the late 80s early 90s are excellent. I had a D-16H sadly sold in a fit of poverty. These are outstanding. Unfortunately, as of late.. they have been discovered. During this period there were also some dovetail neck joint 000-16 models. Again, excellent and tough to find.
I like the Smartwood Series... native American wood on some and tops saved from the throw away diaper grinding mill.. fact.
Another good model was the 00016S GT with slotted head, 12 frets. Get the early one with ebony fingerboard and bridge and Waverly tuners. Later the fb and bridge were RICHLITE (cheap XXXX) and cheezy cheap Chinese tuners. and a higher price. Avoid.
I am also a great fan of the all Mahogany small body ( 00, 000 and OM and slot heads) from Martin.
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Post by oldnjplayer on Jan 5, 2020 9:28:30 GMT -5
Years ago went from a dreadnought (Taylor 710) to a Martin 00028 EC. very different sounds but the Martin is very physically comfortable to play. Smaller body shorter neck. The neck is a soft V shape so it is different feel a bit thicker. I would also say that although the sound is very nice when finger picked, it still sounds quite nice when strummed. I do have a pickup in it which I rarely use but when I do it sounds very nice also (disclaimer; Guitar sounds great, my playing skill not so much )
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Post by hushnel on Jan 5, 2020 9:28:56 GMT -5
I wasn’t aware of how great the all mahogany Martins sounded until I came across the 00-15 at the Sam Ash in Miami. I had the counter guy in the acoustic room pull out all his smaller bodies guitars and we played them back a forth. Yep without a doubt the 00-15 was special. I walked away from it. A few hours later I was talking with my guitar player and told him about it. He thought for a moment then said, ya ever notice how in the fisherman’s story of how large this one was, that in every telling is seemed too get bigger and bigger. I said yeah, he told that was going to happen with this guitar, that in my head the next one wouldn’t stack up to it, and on and on until no guitar was ever going to measure up to the one that I walked away from. Bastage, but he did make a good argument. I called San Ash, spoke to the acoustic counter guy and had him put it away for me. The next day I bought it, and he hadn’t put it away for me. A year or so latter a guy on the UMGF had a 000-15s he wanted to get rid of. I figured it had to be a great guitar, if anything like the 0015, and I purchased it from him for a really reasonable price. The guy told me it had very few hours on it and that he had his Luthier bone the nut and saddle for him. When it arrived and I unplacked it, I tuned it up and it sounded bad, the tone was anemic, the volume unbalanced. I started to freak out a bit. To calm my self down I decided to pull the strings, clean it, and give it a general inspection to see if anything was obvious. Once the strings were off I was wiping it down, flipped it over and the bridge fell out. Ha! I cut a new one out of bone installed it and Yeah man, another great guitar. I called the guy and told him what I found and how I initially felt about his description of the guitar. I mentioned to him that he may want to find another luthier.
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