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Post by gato on Jan 9, 2021 7:36:51 GMT -5
"More than 200 incidents involving Teslas unexpectedly accelerating and crashing were the fault of drivers confusing their brake and accelerator pedals, not a defect with the electric vehicles, the NHTSA said Friday." The National Highway Traffic Safety administration took a year long look at reports of accidents caused by the sudden acceleration of Tesla cars, about 200 in all. The NHTSA pointed out that some people just have difficulty with day to day operations easily mastered by the general population. "You see it all the time, said one official. "They push on doors marked 'pull,' they confuse doors marked 'exit only' with entrances, they unload 50 items at registers with signs saying '15 items or less,' and even lose limbs, thrust through bars on cages marked, Do Not Feed the Lions.' A spokesman for Tesla said that this year the company will change the confusing language in their new car manuals. "We're going to replace 'accelerator' and 'brake pedal' descriptions and render them into the less challenging terms of 'go and stop' pedals. One will be green and the other red, with the appropriate Braille markings as well. We're also adding a cartoon version of the vehicle manual marked, 'Short Bus Edition,' that covers topics like 'what steering wheels do,' and 'unfastening seat belt before exiting the car.' www.autobodynews.com/index.php/industry-news/item/21805-tesla-cleared-in-nhtsa-investigation-over-claims-of-sudden-acceleration.html |
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Post by Riff Twang on Jan 9, 2021 8:07:55 GMT -5
It's sometimes called "operator error". Happens in all sorts of situations. We are only human after all.
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Post by modbus on Jan 9, 2021 8:50:27 GMT -5
People are dumbasses, yes, but this "mixing up the throttle and brake pedal" seems to happen a lot over a variety of car makes and models. I personally think the pedals have gotten too small and close together in modern cars. I have on occasion clipped the accelerator pedal with the edge of my foot when braking. Fortunately, I didn't go careening down the highway at 100 mph, but I certainly didn't like it.
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Post by Mfitz804 on Jan 9, 2021 9:26:43 GMT -5
I have on occasion clipped the accelerator pedal with the edge of my foot when braking. Fortunately, I didn't go careening down the highway at 100 mph, but I certainly didn't like it. Definitely have done that. Big feet make one prone to that issue. |
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Post by funkykikuchiyo on Jan 9, 2021 10:07:26 GMT -5
I have on occasion clipped the accelerator pedal with the edge of my foot when braking. Fortunately, I didn't go careening down the highway at 100 mph, but I certainly didn't like it. Definitely have done that. Big feet make one prone to that issue. I had that problem with a prior car if I was wearing snow boots or something else where I couldn't feel much on the bottoms of my feet. My current car (Hyundai) has the accelerator style that hinges from the bottom instead of the top, and I don't think I've ever had this problem, though it took me a while to get used to how the pedal felt. |
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Post by Ricketi on Jan 9, 2021 10:32:00 GMT -5
People are dumbasses, yes, but this "mixing up the throttle and brake pedal" seems to happen a lot over a variety of car makes and models. I personally think the pedals have gotten too small and close together in modern cars. I have on occasion clipped the accelerator pedal with the edge of my foot when braking. Fortunately, I didn't go careening down the highway at 100 mph, but I certainly didn't like it. This happened to me over Thanksgiving. I took my moms pickup for a ride to make sure everything was ok. I came to a stop sign. Pressed the brake and I was slowing down but not stopping like I should be. I pressed more and more and I wasn't coming to a complete stop until I realized my hunting boot caught some of the accelerator. Weird and scary feeling. |
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Post by tahitijack on Jan 9, 2021 11:41:01 GMT -5
Clearly some of us shouldn't be drivin' out there.
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Post by Taildragger on Jan 9, 2021 12:08:47 GMT -5
I agree that driving with big, clunky boots can create problems: I've had the issue described by others above a couple of times while driving with hiking boots on. Since I've switched to running shoes as my default footwear, no such problems.
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Post by RufusTeleStrat on Jan 9, 2021 13:02:00 GMT -5
I wear either a 12, 13 or 14 depending on the shoe. Don't ask I have one foot bigger than the other and it causes problems. That said the brake gas issue is one that can perplex. I had a corrective boot on my right foot for about 6 months after rupturing my Achilles tendon and never had an issue, but with redwings or other big boots I must remember that the full foot needs to go on the brake. With tennis shoes you can get away with the edge breaking, and not moving the foot over.
the telling quote from the findings:
“After reviewing the available data, ODI has not identified evidence that would support opening a defect investigation into SUA in the subject vehicles," NHTSA wrote. "In every instance in which event data was available for review by ODI, the evidence shows that SUA crashes in the complaints cited by the petitioner have been caused by pedal misapplication.
"There is no evidence of any fault in the accelerator pedal assemblies, motor control systems or brake systems that has contributed...
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Post by HeavyDuty on Jan 9, 2021 13:41:52 GMT -5
People are dumbasses, yes, but this "mixing up the throttle and brake pedal" seems to happen a lot over a variety of car makes and models. I personally think the pedals have gotten too small and close together in modern cars. I have on occasion clipped the accelerator pedal with the edge of my foot when braking. Fortunately, I didn't go careening down the highway at 100 mph, but I certainly didn't like it. I have to be careful with foot placement in my Miata, especially when shifting. (12EEE.) A few times I’ve done spirited driving wearing streamlined water shoes, and I now keep them in the trunk in case I come across some killer twisties that need to be bashed. It’s a pain to switch back and forth, though. |
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Post by Mfitz804 on Jan 9, 2021 13:45:19 GMT -5
Big clunky shoes are not my issue. I have big clunky feet, 14 sometimes 15, so all of my shoes are big and clunky out of necessity.
Only time I ever had a real issue was in my wife’s 2002 Beetle back I the day. My foot didn’t just clip the accelerator, my show got wedged between and it took a couple seconds to free it.
No harm done, but it was bad. I have watched my foot position carefully since.
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Post by LTB on Jan 9, 2021 21:24:49 GMT -5
Yes happens to all of us but aren’t we talking about a car in limited number? 200 compared to how many sold? So maybe they need to redesign size and shape of brake an accelerator pedals.
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Post by themaestro on Jan 9, 2021 23:20:18 GMT -5
Since automatic transmissions don't require three pedals and moving feet between pedals, a lot of people have started driving with right foot on the gas and left foot on the brake, often resting each foot lightly on the pedals at all times. I think this makes it even easier for people to get excited and push on the wrong pedal.
I still drive automatics using only my right foot on the pedals. My left foot is on the floorboard, helping to keep me stabilized behind the wheel.
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Post by Mfitz804 on Jan 9, 2021 23:23:41 GMT -5
Since automatic transmissions don't require three pedals and moving feet between pedals, a lot of people have started driving with right foot on the gas and left foot on the brake, often resting each foot lightly on the pedals at all times. I think this makes it even easier for people to get excited and push on the wrong pedal. I still drive automatics using only my right foot on the pedals. My left foot is on the floorboard, helping to keep me stabilized behind the wheel. I had a hairline right ankle fracture in the 12th grade and taught myself to drive with my left foot on the brake to ease the burden on my right ankle. It never felt right and I immediately went back to the standard right foot only after a week. |
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Post by LTB on Jan 10, 2021 3:05:38 GMT -5
I drive automatics same way I did stick shifts. Right foot on accelerator and left foot on brake/clutch. My sister drove with left foot on brake and right on accelerator. She literally wore brakes out in a brand new car in a little over a couple months. Since then she now drives with left foot tucked under right leg. How uncomfortable is that but says that is the only way to keep her left foot off the brake pedal
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Post by Riff Twang on Jan 10, 2021 4:07:49 GMT -5
The only use for my left foot is if the car has a clutch. One must stop accelerating to brake, so the right foot should be used for both operations in my opinion. After all, on a manual transmission to come to a stop one should shift down through the gears and apply the brakes if travelling at speed. I have never seen a professional driver use the left foot for clutch and brake. YMMV of course.
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Post by gato on Jan 10, 2021 8:04:25 GMT -5
I always make it a point to get out from behind a "two-footer" driver (brake and accelerator simultaneously). They can usually be spotted by the sporadic winking of the brake lights as the vehicle continues on without slowing. Those behind are left to guess at which brake application is accidental and which is the real deal.
Of course, this same dilemma can be had while following someone using their phone: glancing up and down from phone to windshield is accompanied by tentative tapping on the brake. Either way, I move to another lane so that I don't have to keep taking my foot off the accelerator in preparation for a stop that may never come.
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krrf
Wholenote
Posts: 375
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Post by krrf on Jan 10, 2021 10:38:33 GMT -5
I went to the source data to read the NHTSA article: www.teslarati.com/tesla-sudden-acceleration-nhtsa-closes-review/It's an interesting read, it's amazing how many logs are now generated that can be reviewed. While they absolved Tesla of fault, I wonder if the car has too much torque. In most of the cases the log indicated the accelerator was depressed 85% then released. That's a heck of a lot of torque generated that will send that car like a rocket. A normal gas engine isn't going to jump so hard when given that much throttle like an electric car will. Interesting note that Tesla designed a system (Tesla’s Pedal Misapplication Mitigation (PMM)) to counter act the wrong pedal being depressed, but it worked only 13% of the time. That suggests (to me at least) that Tesla knew these things jumped off the line and idiots were gonna stomp on the wrong pedal. |
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Post by LTB on Jan 10, 2021 21:50:13 GMT -5
I drive automatics same way I did stick shifts. Right foot on accelerator and left foot on brake/clutch. My sister drove with left foot on brake and right on accelerator. She literally wore brakes out in a brand new car in a little over a couple months. Since then she now drives with left foot tucked under right leg. How uncomfortable is that but says that is the only way to keep her left foot off the brake pedal Must have been tired when I typed this. I only used left foot for clutch and right foot for brake and accelerator pedals |
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Post by mikedetorrice on Jan 10, 2021 23:10:41 GMT -5
Since automatic transmissions don't require three pedals and moving feet between pedals, a lot of people have started driving with right foot on the gas and left foot on the brake, often resting each foot lightly on the pedals at all times. I think this makes it even easier for people to get excited and push on the wrong pedal. I still drive automatics using only my right foot on the pedals. My left foot is on the floorboard, helping to keep me stabilized behind the wheel. Umm, no. wrong. I have always driven with two feet, one for accelerator and one for brake. It was taught either way in school back then, and I can do it either way, but much prefer two feet, as it's more controllable and sure to me. Perhaps more people misstep using one foot in a panic situation, as it seems these cases involved people confusing where to place their single driving/stopping foot. I don't ride the brake and if someone were to press accelerator and brake to the floor at once, the car would still stop. Mike |
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Post by RufusTeleStrat on Jan 11, 2021 1:46:53 GMT -5
Not only will it stop it will take a screen shot at the same time.
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Post by jefe46 on Jan 11, 2021 11:01:04 GMT -5
The only vehicle involved in "sudden acceleration", and proved to be a genuine mechanical problem and not operator error such as experienced by TOYOTA,
was AUDI.
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Post by Mfitz804 on Jan 11, 2021 11:47:07 GMT -5
Since automatic transmissions don't require three pedals and moving feet between pedals, a lot of people have started driving with right foot on the gas and left foot on the brake, often resting each foot lightly on the pedals at all times. I think this makes it even easier for people to get excited and push on the wrong pedal. I still drive automatics using only my right foot on the pedals. My left foot is on the floorboard, helping to keep me stabilized behind the wheel. Umm, no. wrong. I have always driven with two feet, one for accelerator and one for brake. It was taught either way in school back then, and I can do it either way, but much prefer two feet, as it's more controllable and sure to me. Perhaps more people misstep using one foot in a panic situation, as it seems these cases involved people confusing where to place their single driving/stopping foot. I don't ride the brake and if someone were to press accelerator and brake to the floor at once, the car would still stop. Mike First time I’ve ever heard of anyone being taught that way, but I imagine doing it that way from the start is way easier than trying to do it after many years of doing it with one foot. |
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MoJoe
Wholenote
Posts: 855
Formerly Known As: quiksilver
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Post by MoJoe on Jan 12, 2021 4:10:21 GMT -5
The only vehicle involved in "sudden acceleration", and proved to be a genuine mechanical problem and not operator error such as experienced by TOYOTA, was AUDI. Not the only gremlin. New 100k Audi of a buddy jammed into a full electrical system lock. On the interstate..😳 |
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