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Post by Auf Kiltre on Jun 27, 2021 7:43:48 GMT -5
I swear my insomnia started right after 9/11, laying there in the dark imagining being trapped in the rubble. This was before it was certain there was no hope.
I just hope those poor souls met a merciful ending in their sleep. What a bizarrely 3rd world event.
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Post by Leftee on Jun 27, 2021 7:45:02 GMT -5
It is incredibly tragic and avoidable.
It’s all good - until it isn’t.
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Post by gato on Jun 27, 2021 8:06:33 GMT -5
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Post by Sharkie on Jun 27, 2021 8:23:53 GMT -5
Tragic + +. Still praying that they locate survivors.
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Post by HeavyDuty on Jun 27, 2021 9:22:38 GMT -5
Only partially on point. The biggest exposure here is liability, not the property risk. The liability is likely unambiguous, although as a condo I’m not qualified to state who would be considered negligent. |
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Post by fkaJimmySee on Jun 27, 2021 16:32:27 GMT -5
Since these deteriorating structural issues were apparently identified at least three years ago, and the condo was just getting around to undertaking the repairs now, it may not be covered under the condo master policy. Like water seepage damage is not covered, but a broken pipe is. I'm no insurance expert, but I do not see coverage for this as a slam dunk. On the other hand, claims of negligence filed against the board members who did not respond to the damage report, but apparently let it linger, is another matter altogether. Hope the condo association has a substantial d&o policy -- which I can not see could possibly cover the claims, no matter how big the policy is. The directors may face personal liability for their inaction --- which may rise to the level of gross negligence -- that led to this catastrophe. |
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Post by HeavyDuty on Jun 27, 2021 20:05:35 GMT -5
I’m thinking if there is a property management company they may end up impaled.
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Post by larryguitar54 on Jun 27, 2021 20:11:49 GMT -5
I'm thinking:
a.) Knew or should have known of defect 3 years ago so claims against developer/architect/engineer will have SOL defenses. And I cannot imagine there would be tail coverage for this.
b.) Bad feeling the hazard insurance will have rider exclusion and even if it didn't the policy would not cover full replacement value.
c.) I do agree with Jimmy above. The directors are seriously exposed. Imagine their defense was they tried to raise the $15m for repairs but could not get the votes. Don't know the finances but they could have obtained financing for the repairs and assessed the finance cost over objection.
d.) When this shakes down the unit owners will be lucky to see a fraction of the loss per unit.
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Post by Mfitz804 on Jun 27, 2021 20:12:06 GMT -5
There’s a lot of potential for a lot of liability. It seems that the County, the condo board, the management company (if any) and others either knew or should have known the condition of that building.
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Post by Mfitz804 on Jun 27, 2021 20:14:57 GMT -5
I'm thinking: a.) Knew or should have known of defect 3 years ago so claims against developer/architect/engineer will have SOL defenses. And I cannot imagine there would be tail coverage for this. Agree with that, putting it on the builder or those who participated in the construction won’t be possible. Building was built in 1981, even if it wasn’t for the Statute of Limitations, you would never be able to show that their negligence caused the collapse after the building stood for 40 years. |
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Post by HeavyDuty on Jun 28, 2021 6:02:58 GMT -5
One concern I have is the speculation regarding the fill on which the building sat. Are other buildings affected by a crap site preparation job or inappropriate siting?
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Post by Peegoo 🏁 on Jun 28, 2021 12:13:44 GMT -5
^^^YES they are looking at other buildings now.
Imagine what it must be like to live in one of them right now.
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Post by Mfitz804 on Jun 28, 2021 12:15:41 GMT -5
^^^YES they are looking at other buildings now. Imagine what it must be like to live in one of them right now. Exactly, I would be spending every minute of every day thinking that was going to happen. |
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Post by HeavyDuty on Jun 28, 2021 13:18:42 GMT -5
And I’m enough of a turd that I’d be cranking my subwoofers every night at 3am.
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Post by fkaJimmySee on Jun 28, 2021 15:27:42 GMT -5
^^^YES they are looking at other buildings now. Imagine what it must be like to live in one of them right now. If I were on the board, or a managing agent, of any Miami Beach building, I'd be looking for a structural engineering firm to do a survey and get a report, STAT. Also, probably engage contractors to do repairs, even before I had the report -- and let the homeowners know there would probably be a big assessment coming. |
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Post by jhawkr on Jun 28, 2021 15:58:23 GMT -5
I’m guessing the engineering/building standards in the early 80’s are not as advanced or as stringent as they are today, 4 decades later. Florida is notorious for unstable ground and substrate. Sink holes happen with regularity. A lot of investigation and analysis needs to be done before arriving at a cause or causes and responsibility. But I’m also sure there have already been plenty lawsuits filed.
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Post by Opie on Jun 29, 2021 6:44:39 GMT -5
I watched the vidio of the collapse and I really want to know what the strucural engineers are speculating as to it's cause. If you havn't seen it, it appears that the collapse happens to the cenetr section first, from the top or mid section. The tower stands intact for a secand or two before it teeters and begins it's tragic decent.
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Post by Opie on Jun 29, 2021 8:07:21 GMT -5
After searching many vidios,found this one from a dude that works on these very problems and he gives a very good frame by frame explanation.I was wrong in thinking the top collapsed first,as it can clearly be seen that it occured from the bottom.He also shows Google pictures from before showing signs of corrosion.Sad all around.
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Post by Leftee on Jun 29, 2021 8:28:51 GMT -5
Based on his observations and insight, it’s amazing the whole building didn’t go down.
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Post by rdr on Jun 29, 2021 9:12:29 GMT -5
Great video. Boy I'd get out of the rest of that building!
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Post by Mfitz804 on Jun 29, 2021 11:20:29 GMT -5
After searching many vidios,found this one from a dude that works on these very problems and he gives a very good frame by frame explanation.I was wrong in thinking the top collapsed first,as it can clearly be seen that it occured from the bottom.He also shows Google pictures from before showing signs of corrosion.Sad all around. My understanding is that there was broken concrete and corroded rebar identified in the parking area below the building in the days before the collapse. I am not sure what they would have done about something like that, but I assume there was some way to re-support it (possibly at the expense of portions of the parking garage). |
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Tom B.
Halfnote
Posts: 55
Formerly Known As: Tom B.
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Post by Tom B. on Jun 29, 2021 13:01:06 GMT -5
Events such as this are tragic; unfortunately, much speculation occurs before sufficient facts are learned. As a practicing structural engineer, experience has shown that it will take quite some time to determine the causes for the collapse, as it is very rarely only one thing. Many types of distress that appear to be of concern to the general public (or even engineers) may, or may not, ultimately be of concern as major contributors toward structural collapse. I'll leave it at that for now.
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