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Post by Ragtop on Aug 22, 2021 7:09:48 GMT -5
I was annoyed with my 000-28NB. I had just spent some money on it, had the frets crowned and polished, a couple of them were a bit high. The tech did a nice job.
Then, all of the sudden, the G strings started up with this irritating metallic twang. I tried new strings, still there. Was worried that the nut slot was too deep. Put the guitar away and ignored it for a week or so, which believe it or not did not help.
Planned to take it back to the tech on Monday. But then it occurred to me that a tweak of the truss rod might be in order. So I got online to see if it needed to be turned lefty-loosey or righty-tighty because I can never remember. Counter-clockwise, that's the ticket!
I gave it about a quarter turn, then let it sit while I did a few chores. Came back, tuned it back up, and HOLY CRAP! No twang! And it seemed louder and more resonant, the notes were just exploding out of that thing!
I ended up playing the rest of the afternoon while sitting on the couch watching golf. Played every fingerpickin' song I know, then worked on Townes Van Zandt's "If I Needed You" with a pick for a while. Great tune, sounds nice on that guitar.
Amazing what just a little bit of a tweak can do. It is dialed in now. It's all about the geometry.
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Post by Leftee on Aug 22, 2021 7:19:34 GMT -5
IMO… the better the nut and fret work, the more important the truss rod tweak becomes. Not that it isn’t important to begin with.
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Post by funkykikuchiyo on Aug 22, 2021 8:33:23 GMT -5
Where was it buzzing? If it was in the early frets, then the neck just backbowed on you. If it was up closer to the body, then it has been drying out and the top is sinking, in which case adjusting the neck is just a band-aid.
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Post by Ragtop on Aug 22, 2021 8:50:42 GMT -5
funky, pretty sure it was the first fret, which is why I was thinking it was the nut at first.
It shouldn't be drying out. I'm pretty careful about humidification because it's so dry up here in the High Rockies. The guitar came from Virginia, so I think it's still acclimating.
I appreciate the information. Interesting.
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Post by funkykikuchiyo on Aug 22, 2021 19:08:06 GMT -5
Ah, sounds about right. It might've over humidified slightly, but not enough for alarm.
(I do repairs down in the desert - dry guitars are all around me!)
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Post by Ragtop on Aug 25, 2021 9:12:43 GMT -5
I played it for an hour last night, can't tell you how good it sounds. Lively, responsive, and loud.
At one point in sorting out this problem, I replaced the LaBella G string with an Elixir, thinking it might be the string. So that's what's on there- 5 LaBellas and one Elixir.
Maybe I'm on to something here!
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Post by Leftee on Aug 25, 2021 9:29:16 GMT -5
The Ragtop Formula ®
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Post by orrk01 on Sept 9, 2021 8:41:11 GMT -5
It turns out that a slight truss rod tweak helped me too. I had complained in another thread about a plinky-sounding string on my cheap Martin 000X1 guitar. Sure enough, after reading this thread, I tried an adjustment. No more plink! I also shaved the bridge a bit to correct the overly-high action on the guitar and now it sounds and plays quite a bit better. Thanks for the inspiration Ragtop.
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Post by Leftee on Sept 9, 2021 9:14:47 GMT -5
As I've been building and, in general, setting up guitars over recent years I've wonder if this isn't the reason why so many manufacturers produce guitars with high nut slots. Not only is it less expensive to *not* put guitars through individual setups, but the truss rod adjustment is much more critical when the nut is properly cut. The "string-ping" on the first fret is all but impossible if the nut is cut too high.
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Post by hushnel on Sept 9, 2021 12:28:21 GMT -5
For the near 60 years I’ve been playing, the fine mechanical tuning of an instrument was a mystery. It wasn’t until I started working on guitars that I became aware of the fine adjustments. I started by picking up free or cheap acoustic guitars that often needed simple fixes. I donated these to the Sheriffs Boy’s Ranch around Christmas time, once they were playable. Previous to this I never messed with the instruments other than new strings, and tuning. Early repairs mostly centered around electronics in electric instruments. It wasn’t until I built that first fretless Mahogany bass that I got into fine intonation, smooth action. Since all this was required in a fabricated instrument. I purchased a fretless neck for this build. Still I had to learn about the trussrod, which I never paid much attention to before.
My old Framus bass was a mess, I even took it to a repair shop in Pittsburg to get it more playable. They returned it to me with little or no effect. I replaced this bass back in 1980 with the Precision. The Framus sat in a closet until I moved up to the farm in 2012. Eventually I put it on my bench and went over the whole thing. Those guy in Pittsburgh had the bridge in the wrong place, I had to bend strings to intonation when I played it. I did the adjustments, the bridge placement, trussrod, over a few days, cleaned the pots checked the soldering etc. The bass had never played easier or sounded as good. I can actually use it and have.
I’ve always been fairly cautious when attempting new processes. I have to understand the theory, knowing that this did that wasn’t enough information. I’ve alway been that way.
It used to irritate my dad a bit, that I was always asking why. We lived with my maternal grand father for a year when dad was stationed in Greenland, 1960-1961. Grandpa wanted me to understand what I was doing and how it needed to be done and why, before I ever touched the tool or started a project. My Mothers brother was a big influence, I learned that every thing was easy with the right tools and structural/mechanical knowledge.
The truss rod is pure genius. Simple ingenuity.
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Post by Peegoo 🏁 on Sept 14, 2021 11:12:26 GMT -5
I wonder if this isn't the reason why so many manufacturers produce guitars with high nut slots. That is precisely why most all new guitars benefit from a careful setup. The makers realise their stuff will be transported and stored in all kinds of conditions from hot to cold and dry to damp. They set up their guitars with a lick and a prayer (tall nut slots and elevated action) just to keep the strings off the frets. It makes little sense to dial them in to perfection because the neck is going to move around. |
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Post by Leftee on Sept 14, 2021 12:20:07 GMT -5
I wonder if this isn't the reason why so many manufacturers produce guitars with high nut slots. That is precisely why most all new guitars benefit from a careful setup. The makers realise their stuff will be transported and stored in all kinds of conditions from hot to cold and dry to damp. They set up their guitars with a lick and a prayer (tall nut slots and elevated action) just to keep the strings off the frets. It makes little sense to dial them in to perfection because the neck is going to move around. My builds go out with really good setups. I don’t know how many times I’ve heard back, “this is the best playing guitar I own.” I sent one out that needed a truss rod tweak upon arrival. I’ve been lucky. Mind you, my customer base is likely buying sub-$1000 guitars. That’s not a high bar to get over. |
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Post by FlyonNylon on Sept 14, 2021 13:39:56 GMT -5
I've loosened the truss rod on my D18 twice in the past 3 years. Initially due to Eb tuning (for vocal reasons and old strat habit) although I play in E now and the guitar seems stable after the adjustments. Martins benefit from a medium+ action imo to get the best volume/projection. The modern neck is smooth enough that I barely notice decreased left hand efficiency raising the action if it has a buzz but can tell a big difference in tone.
Plus it's fun to play a dreadnaught really loud lol.
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Post by Ragtop on Sept 16, 2021 4:23:56 GMT -5
Update on the 000-28NB: the metallic "twang" of the G string returned. I took it to the tech I use, and he raised the nut slot using super glue, and he also lowered the first fret under that string. Got it sorted out and sounding good.
But in the meantime I had traded for a very cool and remarkably clean 1964 Martin 0-16NY. What a nice little guitar! And I had my eye on an Edmonds dread. So I sold the NB, which was easy as I had a couple of guys who wanted it. And I used those proceeds to buy the Edmonds, which is enroute and should be here tomorrow.
Google "Jimmy Edmonds" if you aren't familiar. He is building guitars in Galax, VA. This one coming is a D-18 style dread in Adi/Sinker Mahogany.
When this flurry of buying/trading is over I'll have the little Martin and the Edmonds and my two old ('80 and'81) Guilds. Hopefully the GAS will subside for a while.
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Post by Leftee on Sept 16, 2021 8:08:12 GMT -5
Galax isn’t far from me.
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Post by Ragtop on Sept 16, 2021 8:46:08 GMT -5
Leftee, have you heard of Jimmy Edmonds? |
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Post by Leftee on Sept 16, 2021 9:14:34 GMT -5
I have not, but then I’m not much of an acoustic guy.
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