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Post by Tinkerer on Aug 28, 2021 21:36:50 GMT -5
I have 2 guitars that I think are my best sounding. Both of them have Warmoth necks with identical specs: 1 3/4" nut width, 10 -16 compound radius, stainless fretwork. The action at the nut is the same between the guitars, truss rod relief, the same etc. I use D'Addario .009 to .042 strings on both guitars.
One of the guitars has a Bigsby (the guitar in my profile pic); the other has a strat style top loading hard tail bridge. I modified this Bigsby frame so that it does not have the roller bar or the roller bar support structure. The Bigsby is mounted below the level that the bridge is on, so I have good downward string angle to the Bigsby without the roller bar.
I am using a Stew Mac Golden Age Tune-O-Matic style bridge with a 12" radius. I had been using a Schaller Tune-O-Matic style roller bridge, but switched to the Stew Mac because I wanted a non-adjustable string spread (I found that the string spread would "wander" a bit with string changes, etc). The Schaller bridge has a 14" radius.
The guitar with the Bigsby plays stiffer than the other guitar, and I am wondering why? The factors I wonder about are:
1.) The Bigsby itself - is a tremolo guitar going to feel stiffer because of the spring tension of the tremolo system?
2.) Is the radius mis-match between the fret board (10" - 16") and the bridges (Stew Mac 12" and Schaller 14") a factor?I can't say I noticed a difference between the two bridges.
The Bigsby guitar plays well, but if possible I would like to get it to feel like the other.
Any thoughts and suggestions are appreciated!! Thanks!!
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pdf64
Wholenote
Posts: 556
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Post by pdf64 on Aug 29, 2021 4:12:23 GMT -5
It may be related to the total string length, between its anchor points of the tuner and bridge. eg to get the same increase in pitch as a hardtail strat, the strings will need to be pushed further across the neck, thereby encountering the tension of other strings.
And then there’s the ‘give’ in the trem system, which will require the string to be pushed even further.
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Post by funkykikuchiyo on Aug 30, 2021 9:21:43 GMT -5
Short answer: no. Pitch is a result of the relationship of string diameter, string tension, and string length. If you put all of those four things into an equation, you'll see you can't change one without another being changed as well. In this case, you can't have a different tension with the same strings, scale length and tuned to the same pitch.
The feel of tension is a weird thing, and lots of things can happen. As pdf mentions, when a bridge/tailpiece has some wiggle, it can give a spongey feel, like a floating trem on a Strat vs. one clamped down. Movement over a bridge with a shallow break angle can do the same thing. Sometimes neck profile and/or fret profile can add just enough of a different feel that it'll feel looser, though it isn't. Though, on the floating bridges even if it feels looser, you actually have to bend strings slightly farther because as you raise the bridge the tuning is going down, so you have to bend more to compensate. Sometimes just the tone of the instrument can make a difference. If it sounds different and that causes you to play differently, it can seem stiffer or looser.
Do they both have the same style body? It is possible you're playing one closer to the bridge without realizing it.
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Post by Tinkerer on Aug 30, 2021 10:24:38 GMT -5
Thanks to you both! Funky, the body styles are not the same. Both have just a neck pickup only and my sense is that I play both consistently just below the pickup. I've wondered if it would be a worthwhile experiment to swap the necks on the guitars and see what that does to the feel??
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Post by Leftee on Aug 30, 2021 11:20:53 GMT -5
It wouldn’t hurt to try it in the name of science.
Or geometry
Or philosophy
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Wrnchbndr
Wholenote
Posts: 353
Formerly Known As: WRNCHBNDR
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Post by Wrnchbndr on Sept 8, 2021 10:44:16 GMT -5
Hey gang, - been a while. In each and every time I’ve encountered this “Guitar Feels Stiffer” thing, its been a bit of a chasing smoke issue. Nobody here has said anything I disagree with but I’ve observed over the years that a huge number of things will give the perception that a guitar feels stiff. Just to toss it into the conversation, it should be noted that your hands will tell lies. The smallest difference in the neck and frets can give this feeling.
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Post by Tinkerer on Sept 8, 2021 16:06:12 GMT -5
Thanks everyone - an update - I have not swapped out the necks to see if the stiffer feel goes with the neck, but I did put a set of .008 to .038 strings on the guitar with the Bigsby. That "loosened" things up a bit. In playing my guitars and comparing the feel, the one that seems loosest is an outlier - all of the others feel very similar, even the guitar with the Bigsby, and are comfortable and play well, but I have that one neck just feels different - easier, than the rest.
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Post by funkykikuchiyo on Sept 8, 2021 19:03:54 GMT -5
Agreed, wrnch. I keep trying to figure out what the analogous saying would be to "optic illusion" for your hands, but I never come up with anything.
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Wrnchbndr
Wholenote
Posts: 353
Formerly Known As: WRNCHBNDR
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Post by Wrnchbndr on Sept 19, 2021 14:01:01 GMT -5
A case in point was a mid 60s Strat owned by a professional client. Nice working musicians guitar with some minor fret wear and less than optimal fret crowns. I put in about two hours of precision leveling, crowning, end dressing, and a polish. Good result and the rosewood looked dry so I put on a heavy application of lemon oil, let it sit for ten minutes and then wiped it down with an old cotton tee-shirt. I set up the guitar and really felt like it was a superior result - a good Strat was now a great Strat. My client didn’t like it. He said it was “stiff feeling”. My head immediately went into thinking about geometry and total absence of any ideas. It was the same neck but now with delicious action, mirror glassy fretwork, and uber friendly fret ends. The problem turned out to be the lemon oil and the resulting feel that was obtained between my client’s 64 year-old skin on his fingertips, the rosewood, and the strings. I cleaned the rosewood with naphtha and everything was right again. I spent some time discussing this with the client. He described the need to employ greater effort to bend a note with trouble keeping the string under his fingertip and the fretboard having greater friction. Or, rather the strings feeling slippery and the rosewood grabbing his fingertip.
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