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Post by ninworks on Dec 20, 2021 9:28:45 GMT -5
For about the last year I have been making an attempt to write some kind of poem or lyrics everyday. I have failed at doing that. Sometimes I do well and go for a couple weeks religiously and other times.....well, I may go for months without even thinking about it.
I have been on a roll for the last few days and had some good ideas come to me I was able to complete instead of just a few lines here and there. Getting completed ideas are rare without expending a lot of effort. It's usually a verse or a chorus and then the idea fizzles out. Now I need to write some music for the new ones. That doesn't happen very often either.
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Post by Peegoo 🏁 on Dec 21, 2021 13:32:57 GMT -5
One of the things I learned many years ago from a songwriter pal is to keep a small notebook with you at all times (today, the Notes function on yer phone).
Whenever an interesting or compelling turn of phrase pops up in your daily adventures, record it. Over time, you can go into this record and combine some things into a theme that become a poem or lyrics for a song.
It works!
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Post by ninworks on Dec 21, 2021 16:55:07 GMT -5
Yes it does. I have oodles of little things I have come across in my everyday dealings. Sometimes it's just hard to complete the idea.
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Post by langford on Jan 4, 2022 17:38:51 GMT -5
Not a lyrcist (or a songwriter), but I do magazine writing for a living, so I can sort of relate. Once in a while, inspiration strikes and I'll have a sense of a piece from the outset. But most of the time it's about method. I always start by jotting down a focus for any given story —— what's it about and what's the point. That tees up a goal and I know in a general way what kind of format/structure I want to follow.
After that, the work is all about organizing the reporting/information into a cogent package that delivers on the focus quickly and clearly. For me, it feels like laying bricks. You just build up the piece a row at a time based on knowing what works in terms of the format and structure. Interesting fact: Some of my favourite stories have been those I wrote simply following the method. There was no inspiration. They were just part of the job and ended being quite well crafted.
RE "It's just sometimes hard to complete an idea." That's so true. I often tell new writers that hard part in writing--and the only really creative/arty part--is figuring out the focus of the story. After you've cracked that nut (and it's a tough one) the rest is just work.
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matryx81
Wholenote
I think I know the reason but I can't spell it.
Posts: 773
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Post by matryx81 on Jan 8, 2022 20:45:44 GMT -5
I think writing is a thing where you sometimes have to do it in order to get the junk out.
I also wonder if the earlier you start, the easier it becomes/the better you are at it.
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Post by Peegoo 🏁 on Jan 9, 2022 9:41:33 GMT -5
I also wonder if the earlier you start, the easier it becomes/the better you are at it. That may be the case for some people, but for me it all starts with being in the correct head space when writing. One thing I have never been able to do is be creative when I've 'got the blues'. Being preoccupied with some dilemma completely disconnects the part of my brain that processes musical inspiration; it kills any desire to 'make' a song about it. I think it may be due to me being happiest as a problem solver...and that drive seems to override everything else. |
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Post by langford on Jan 9, 2022 10:24:33 GMT -5
Writing it also about editing. An old co-worker of mine and I used to talk about doing a "barf draft." Just put everything you've got on paper. Don't worry about quality or cogency. Just get it out. As you scrape away the garbage, you start getting a better picture of what you want and what you need to do to get there.
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Post by ninworks on Jan 9, 2022 10:28:11 GMT -5
Writing it also about editing. An old co-worker of mine and I used to talk about doing a "barf draft." Just put everything you've got on paper. Don't worry about quality or cogency. Just get it out. As you scrape away the garbage, you start getting a better picture of what you want and what you need to do to get there. That is very true. Just get it down. It doesn't have to be perfect. Even if I can't come up with a line that I like I'll put something, anything, down to use as a kind of place holder. I can always come back to it later and either replace the line or edit it so that it works. For me, it's mostly about honing the craft. That is the part that makes a bad idea better and a good idea great. |
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Bopper
Wholenote
Motor City USA
Posts: 507
Age: 72
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Post by Bopper on Jan 9, 2022 12:18:54 GMT -5
Bob Dylan: “This long piece of vomit, 20 pages long, and out of it I took ‘Like a Rolling Stone’ and made it as a single,”
So, yeah.
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Post by Larry Madsen on Jan 10, 2022 9:12:01 GMT -5
Writing it also about editing. An old co-worker of mine and I used to talk about doing a "barf draft." Just put everything you've got on paper. Don't worry about quality or cogency. Just get it out. Yes indeed! I have only written one song, but I have done plenty of "other" writing. That's my approach once I sit down to get it on paper. Taking notes as thoughts come to me (no matter where I am at the time) is another. Both mentioned above. Consider my post as firm confirmation.  |
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Post by Auf Kiltre on Jan 12, 2022 11:57:45 GMT -5
I love the sound of words, their melodious flow and juxtaposition. I most often like to take a "babbling approach" when a melody strikes. Place holder lyrics that more often than not make no sense. A sequence of words that may sound nifty that just hold the idea together. Sometimes I'll write around the place holder and use it as my guide, like splashing paint on canvas and using that as the starting theme. When I'm feeling whimsical I'll play act in my head that the song is already written and I need to interpret it from the Ether. When I get stumped after a solid line I may resort to a rhyme dictionary, try to find one that doesn't sound forced and fill in the blank.
They're just songs and I've noticed that most people don't give a rats azz about lyrics. But I do.
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Post by ninworks on Jan 12, 2022 14:07:08 GMT -5
I do too.
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Post by langford on Jan 12, 2022 14:36:43 GMT -5
Me, three. Also, I wanted to add a few thoughts about format. In my work, I have a little catalogue of story forms/structures that I draw on. Is the story a narrative or is it what I call "analytical" or "nut-driven" (i.e. does the piece tell a story or does it analyze/argue a situation and offer a concluding takeaway based on the reporting). Within that, I have a little checklist of things that need to happen in certain places to keep the piece moving along. These would be like saying we need a verse, chorus, bridge and, if it's a longer piece, maybe a pre-chorus or a breakdown to keep things interesting. I imagine writing lyrics is kind of the same. What kind of song is it? Does it tell a story where the verses become chapters, like any ballad? Does it analyze an idea where the different verses are points of view, eg. John Prine's "In Spite of Ourselves"? Is based on a gimmick, like the list in "50 Ways to Leave Your Lover." Is is a mix of the above? I suspect that if you go into the lyric writing with a structure in mind, it can help generate ideas or help identify them. Say you want to write a song about how much you love your car. Well, what does the car think? Is that a verse? Can you make it three things you love about the car. Can it be a love story told in chapters looking back at the relationship? Maybe one verse is about why you love your car and another is what your partner thinks about the affair... etc. Hope I'm not being long-winded here. Just trying to say that if you start by setting some parameters, it can help with the development. Doesn't make it easy, though.  |
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Post by ninworks on Jan 12, 2022 16:46:05 GMT -5
You are correct about format. For me, it's usually a phrase that starts everything off. Then I think about if the phrase would be part of a verse or a chorus. The phrase is usually the chorus or theme of the story. Then I start trying to figure out scenarios that the chorus would be descriptive of. I usually find that whatever structure I want to use is determined by the verse or verses I come up with in relation to the chorus. Sometimes the form will change two or three times before the lyrics are finished.
When writing lyrics to predetermined music sometimes it's the music that determines what form the lyrics need to take. There are no absolutes. Approaches can vary greatly from song to song. Sometimes I'll change the form just because I don't want to use one I've used many times. The subject matter can also dictate form. If it's a dark subject than perhaps assembling a strange format can add to the effectiveness of the story.
I'm still learning how to do this and always looking for ways to make things work. Sometimes it's a struggle.
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Post by Vibroluxer on Jan 12, 2022 22:39:27 GMT -5
One of the things I learned many years ago from a songwriter pal is to keep a small notebook with you at all times (today, the Notes function on yer phone). Whenever an interesting or compelling turn of phrase pops up in your daily adventures, record it. Over time, you can go into this record and combine some things into a theme that become a poem or lyrics for a song. It works! I've heard that David Bowie never wrote an entire song, he just assembled them from the random thoughts in his notebook. |
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Post by Vibroluxer on Jan 12, 2022 22:43:24 GMT -5
For about the last year I have been making an attempt to write some kind of poem or lyrics everyday. I have failed at doing that. Sometimes I do well and go for a couple weeks religiously and other times.....well, I may go for months without even thinking about it. I have been on a roll for the last few days and had some good ideas come to me I was able to complete instead of just a few lines here and there. Getting completed ideas are rare without expending a lot of effort. It's usually a verse or a chorus and then the idea fizzles out. Now I need to write some music for the new ones. That doesn't happen very often either. You aren't alone. Most people think that the tune Cecilia is about a guy and his girl. It's really about Cecilia, the Patron Saint of Musicians, leaving him resulting in writers block. But by the end of the song he's singing "Jubilation...". Anyway, |
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Jim622
Halfnote
Posts: 83
Age: 58
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Post by Jim622 on Feb 10, 2022 21:28:19 GMT -5
I took a Truefire songwriting course. Part of it was basically, you pick a subject and you brainstorm on it for like 5 minutes for a certain amount of days and then like Dylan in Boppers post #8, you have a bunch of pages. It works pretty well. I found when I go through it tossing out the trash, along with finding the verses, I find there is usually repeating ideas each day which end up as the chorus or if your lucky a good hook.
Also if you have the attention span, The Beatles Get Back movie gives a pretty good peek into their writing process. I am not a giant Beatles fan, but I found it pretty enlightening, with the roof top concert as a great finale.
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