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Post by windmill on Dec 29, 2021 20:05:53 GMT -5
Particularly saxophone players ?
There is a local monthly jazz jam that I have been going along to listen to and I have an ambition to get up and play bass at some point.
They have lead sheets with chords for players to use.
Last time I was there, at the end of the night I collected some of them.
While the notation states a particular key, at the top of some sheets it is written "concert". On a sheet where the notation is in the key of C, at the top of the sheet is written Bb. Another is in F while Eb is written at the top of the sheet.
I would like to have an understanding of why this is before I volunteer to play and start off floundering around in the wrong key.
Thanks
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Post by Peegoo 🏁 on Dec 30, 2021 1:16:21 GMT -5
You could ask the jam organizer what their process is. They are usually eager to help because new players help keep things poppin'. The sax and many brass instruments are "transposing" instruments. The pitch names on these do not match "normal" instruments such as guitar, bass, piano or violin (or with other transposing instruments that transpose differently). When an instrument is "in Eb", it means if you play a C on that instrument, you actually hear what is normally called Eb. If a song is in Cm, the Bb instruments have to play in Dm, the Eb instruments in Am, etc. And you thought guitar and bass was complicated  |
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Post by Leftee on Dec 30, 2021 9:21:30 GMT -5
Side note…
Sax is a woodwind - not brass. 😊
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Post by Peegoo 🏁 on Dec 30, 2021 16:03:41 GMT -5
^^^
Sung to the tune of Henry Mancini's Pink Panther theme:
Pe-dant
Pe-dant
Pe-dant, pe-dant, pe-dant
Pe-dant, pe-daaaaaaaaaaaaant
Waa-waaa waaa-waa waaaaaaa....
hee hee! Shpank!
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Post by windmill on Dec 30, 2021 16:47:17 GMT -5
Thanks Peegoo... and Leftee  |
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Post by Leftee on Dec 31, 2021 9:55:57 GMT -5
I just had this conversation with my wife who is a violinist. She said ”… well, they’re made of brass.”
Didn’t want you to call a sax a brass instrument in front of one of the players. 😊
Re: OP - A capo will be your friend.
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Post by jazzguy on Jan 9, 2022 22:50:34 GMT -5
Bring a capo to a jazz gig and they'll laugh you off the bandstand
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Post by windmill on Jan 10, 2022 7:50:27 GMT -5
Yeah , dont usually use one on my bass .. |
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Post by Leftee on Jan 12, 2022 20:34:49 GMT -5
Bring a capo to a jazz gig and they'll laugh you off the bandstand Good point. I know nothing about jazz jams. |
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mikem
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Post by mikem on Jan 14, 2022 17:45:05 GMT -5
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mikem
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Posts: 231
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Post by mikem on Jan 14, 2022 18:03:03 GMT -5
Transpositions: If the bass/piano/guitar is in C: Trombone will be in C Tenor/Soprano sax/Bb Trumpet will be in D Alto/Baritone sax will be in A ___________ If the bass/piano/guitar is in Eb: Trombone will be in Eb Tenor/Soprano sax/Bb Trumpet will be in F Alto/Baritone sax will be in C Transposing from concert pitch (key for piano/bass/guitar): - the sop sax/trumpet/tenor sax need to read the music one major 2nd higher - alto/baritone saxes need to read it a minor 3rd lower or a Major 6th higher - trombone does not need to transpose
trivia: I purchased my RealBook back in 1977 when I was in college. It was kind of an underground/bootleg thing back then. A friend of mine was attending Berklee College of Music (Boston) at that time and told me to go to this certain print shop on Boylston St. and ask for (I forgot his name) at the counter. If he was there, tell him I was there to pick up a Real Book....it was $25 cash I believe. He looked around, went in the back and came out with a large book in a bag. I gave him the $ and left. It was like a drug deal -lol.
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Post by windmill on Jan 14, 2022 18:04:30 GMT -5
Thanks Mike That is a good help. |
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Post by Auf Kiltre on Jan 18, 2022 19:55:52 GMT -5
All I know is the sax player I once gigged with was not happy when I called out a jump blues tune in B.
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gbfun
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Post by gbfun on Jan 19, 2022 6:24:23 GMT -5
Ha. I use a guitar synth for brass.
Guitar key = B. Sax key = B.
But then, the sax player sounds a little more drunk than usual...
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mikem
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Musician soundman musician soundman
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Post by mikem on Jan 19, 2022 20:02:15 GMT -5
All I know is the sax player I once gigged with was not happy when I called out a jump blues tune in B. B blues (C# for me on my tenor sax) is fine but Gb concert (Ab for tenor sax) is rough..... Funny: A couple of years ago I was jamming/playing at an open blues jam when a chick walked up and asked to sing a song. The leader of the house band was a younger kid (20's?) playing guitar (I had brought my baritone sax to sit-in with but most of the tunes the kids called were in E, which put me in C#)... So the gal said that she would like to sing Chain of Fools (Aretha) and the kid said fine...then she says I sing it in Eb....the kid.....uhh...Can you sing it in E? Gal: nope, I do it in Eb.... On all of the tunes up to that point (in E & A) the kid was really-loud blowing through all of the usual canned licks and weaving around "showboating"....but he shriveled up ('could hardly hear him) like a dog with his tail between his legs when he tried to play in Eb... I chuckle every time I think about it. |
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GmanNJ
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Post by GmanNJ on Feb 6, 2022 8:12:37 GMT -5
I have been doing this for years and explaining to people that a capo cant be used on a sax The problem really happens when someone asks for a key change. Some of the old R&R/R&B was in weird keys because it was easier on the horns. Today everything is in simple major keys and that makes it harder for the horns but I digress.... For the tenor/trumpet just move the key up 2 semi tones (one full step) as these are Bb instruments for the bari/alto move it down 3 semi tones (1.5 steps) as these are Eb instruments for the trombone- leave it as there is no transposition (its a C instrument) but it is a bass clef for those that read music there is all kinds of music theory that explains the why and if interested you can google it. But the simple answer is the above. |
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twangmeister
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Post by twangmeister on Feb 8, 2022 12:25:29 GMT -5
At a jam a decent brass player should be able to play in guitar-friendly keys.
When I played in a 21-piece swing band we used charts and I played in THEIR keys. Made me a more flexible guitarist. Since they greatly outnumbered me when we occasionally jammed it was also in their keys. My bandmates liked to call me the band guitard, because I was totally self-taught and not a good sight reader. In return I called them brassholes.
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Post by hushnel on Feb 11, 2022 14:08:54 GMT -5
The last big working band I was in would hire a 3 piece rhythm section occasionally when the gig was prime. They did their thing and I held down the bottom. I never had a problem. They did their thing I did mine and it sounded great. I can nail the mode pretty quickly for when I go off the reservation, spicing up the bottom a bit, when the musical space opened a bit. These where rehearsed tunes not jams, so I know where I am all the time. I’ld have to jump into a jam with horns to see if I can pull it off. Victor Wooten had a couple of classes to deal with working through gettin back on target that would just about render a mistake part of the line, in some cases even inspirational. This alone was worth the cost of a week being taught by him and his crew.
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