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Post by rickyguitar on Mar 14, 2022 10:03:07 GMT -5
Years back I was shopping for a Tele. We lived in a rural area where there were 3 or 4 music stores within a 70 mile radius. I went to all of them and played every Tele they had. I bought "the one". When I was looking for a G&L the store had 5. I played them all. 1 really fit me 1 really did not and the others were all in between. I bought "the one". A few years back my wife insisted I needed another LP. I went to a Sam Ash and played every one they had. I was ready to walk out empty handed hand when the tech brought out a new arrival he had just set up. The one. For a PRS I went a Guitar Center and same thing. Played them all and found one.
It is amazing to me that there can be so much difference in the same model. Both fit and sound.
I saw a video some years back where some luthier dude (could have been Paul Smith) was talking about guitars and had 3 unassembled guitars, neck and bodies. He would tap a piece of wood and would ring out and another would just thump.
There is a certain amount of happenstance involved. Some guitars are just better.
When I get one that rings and sings and fits me it really is a joy to play.
I bought an SG once just because it was an SG I could afford and it proved to be a dog. I was glad when it got stolen. No joke.
I dunno, maybe it's the day of the week it was birthed. Don't get a Monday or Friday guitar. Or not. They all definitely have a personality tho.
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Post by Auf Kiltre on Mar 14, 2022 10:25:43 GMT -5
Yeah, so many variables and subjectivity. So much more than the esoteric and elusive "tone" aspect. I have put guitars back on the rack before even strumming a chord because of weight, neck profile, color. I've done the same because of string gauge and setup. Who knows how many "the ones" I could've passed by. Pick it, play it, love it, let all the science and voodoo go.
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Post by LeftyMeister on Mar 14, 2022 10:27:56 GMT -5
Us lefties live in a different world. I've rarely played a guitar before purchasing it. In fact, I can't remember if I've ever done it.
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Post by Leftee on Mar 14, 2022 12:03:16 GMT -5
The only one I got to play before paying my money was my first - a ‘74 Mustang.
I’ll send back a dud, but I can usually turn them around myself, if I want to.
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Post by Peegoo 🏁 on Mar 14, 2022 12:14:43 GMT -5
Oh yeah.
Two identical guitars that roll off the line one after the other can feel and play quite differently.
Same goes for amplifiers, but we as players are generally more conscious about differences between guitars because playing one is an intensely personal experience.
I've owned several Les Pauls over the years, and once I figured out what I liked and didn't like about all of them, I took about a year to try a bunch of them; I did find The One. There is nothing about it that can be improved--except the skills of the person operating it. Time to go practice!
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Post by LeftyMeister on Mar 14, 2022 13:39:01 GMT -5
The only one I got to play before paying my money was my first - a ‘74 Mustang. Now that I think about it, I played a Cort LP copy at a store before walking out with it. I also played my first acoustic from a pawnshop. |
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Post by Lesterstrat on Mar 14, 2022 14:32:46 GMT -5
I have a Fender AmStd Dlx HSS that I took a chance on off of EBay back in 2004. I hit the jackpot. It was THE ONE, so much so that my two Tom Andersons both went on EBay and I made six times what I paid for the Fender.
I ended buying another identical Fender. I took every measurement there is off of THE ONE and setup the second one identical. It never felt like THE ONE. I could do blind test and pick THE ONE every time.
I’m long retired from gigging, playing with others, etc… I sold every guitar I owned except for THE ONE. I break it out every great once in awhile and feels as good as it ever did.
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Post by LeftyMeister on Mar 14, 2022 14:52:17 GMT -5
Wait... I thought he's THE ONE.
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Post by samspade on Mar 14, 2022 16:52:47 GMT -5
Might sound strange, but I have some guitars that I bought online that I maybe didn't immediately connect with, but kept. I found with some of these, changing string gauge or just really returning to them after a while made a difference. One example was a Strat HSS Deluxe. Was really perfect, but felt too cold/precise to me, no vibe. I tried different string gauges, still nothing. I think a few years, maybe 5 passed, picked it out of storage, and it's now amazing. I really think the neck was too new if that makes sense, like a few years on it dried it...my theory lol
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Post by reverendrob on Mar 14, 2022 16:59:20 GMT -5
I have two of the exact same Les Paul model - the ONLY difference is color. Same pickups, wiring, hardware, birthed < 6 weeks apart. One has been in my possession about a year more than the second. They're both the "most people hate them" models - Axcess neck joint, the wider fretboard (but not string spacing, think "can bend the E strings either way without running out of board), robotuners, factory Plek, titanium nut/hardware, adjustable DIP switches for coil split/tap/etc without re-soldering. The combination of the Axcess neck joint and the wider fretboard are EXACTLY what I would have done if I knew the latter was an option, damned the cost - I'd have found SOME WAY of paying for a custom model, and there it was, Gibson delivering them into my hands. I just sort of knew when I read the specs on them, and waited over six months to get my first one as they were delayed by the supplier doing the aluminum flight cases for them (so I never did get my first color choice - the silver were rare as hen's teeth). They play VERY similarly, not surprisingly, but the sound is radically different. The Arctic White one does a near perfect New York Dolls/Sex Pistols?Mick Ronson rock swagger thing the other one just doesn't have, and the wine red beast does traditional jazz tones (without sounding dead or too boxy) without trying. I can get the to approximate each other, but they're 10% or more better at their respective niches than the other. I didn't adjust anything for ages. Eventually I swapped the pickups on a whim (since they're quick connect) and found that it wasn't a difference in the pickups at all after reinstalling at the same height. There's just something on the wood and the resonance. Don't get me wrong, I'd be happy if EITHER was my only guitar, but I"m very glad to have both. Years later and the only changes I've ever made are the truss rod covers and poker chips (custom on both on both guitars). Wine red doesn't have the pickguard (quick detach), whereas the Arctic White will forever as the gassing of the pickguard has made it banana yellow underneath in just a couple years. It'll eventually all turn that color, I'm sure, but it'll take a lot of time and likely never be "even." The only other change over time has been the lettering on the Arctic White pickguard has gotten damaged, so now it's "Don't step on sn k"  |
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Post by walshb 🦒 on Mar 15, 2022 8:49:48 GMT -5
When I purchased my R8, I played every one they had in the store before deciding. Honestly, there were only very minute differences between them all. I believe they had 8 at the time, and it wasn't an easy decision because none really stood out. I went with the one that seemed to have the most sustain, and ignored the "looks" factor. It's not a bad looking guitar but certainly not the best looking R8 I've seen either.
That was the only time I've compared a bunch of the same guitars though.
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Post by Peegoo 🏁 on Mar 15, 2022 9:32:58 GMT -5
Wait... I thought he's THE ONE.
It appears he employs the same style coach used by Dieter from the TV show Sprockets. |
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Post by funkykikuchiyo on Mar 15, 2022 18:57:10 GMT -5
This kind of thing always excites me.
I've played thousands of guitars. Heck, I've probably played thousands of Strats alone. Plenty of vintage, high end, custom built, you name it, expensive guitars. The guitars that get me excited the MOST are the simpler instruments where everything just works great and sounds great. So, you play a few hundred MIM Strats and then you play one that sounds AMAZING. And, you can't figure out why.
I've noticed some patterns. The better ones usually have more meat on the necks. On average lighter guitars tend to sound a bit better, but there is a point of diminishing returns, and this is not a very consistent phenomenon with many exceptions. The ones that have been gently played for a long time usually sound better, too. So, if there is anything to age making a guitar sound good (at least with electrics) it seems more related to the number of hours on it than the actual age.
Usually things that are known to make for a better instrument (good joinery, solid hardware, etc.) impact the tone for the better. I wouldn't dismiss that those things help tone, but sometimes you get an instrument where it seems like absolutely nothing was done right, yet it still sounds amazing. Usually those instruments are the ones that are played consistently over the course of decades.
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Post by Peegoo 🏁 on Mar 16, 2022 0:40:36 GMT -5
Usually those instruments are the ones that are played consistently over the course of decades. That's the thing with the older gig-worn guitars you see on the market: they sounded great when they were new and they continued to sound great over the years, and they continued to be played. Hear me now and believe me later--Fender (and others) made bad guitars too, and those didn't get gigged. They usually were given to some nephew who dragged it around, left it outside in the rain, etc. Those kinds of guitar disappear into the ether. |
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Post by reverendrob on Mar 16, 2022 1:56:39 GMT -5
Yea, it's also a case of "well-worn guitars" are players precisely because they inspire people to play.
The vintage closet classics are often dogs!
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gbfun
Wholenote
I eat cookies to provide you with the best possible experience.
Posts: 463
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Post by gbfun on Mar 16, 2022 4:31:29 GMT -5
Now you all tell me this secret ! I've failed to make two exact guitars sound the same for the 3rd time, but I got closer than ever by randomly mixing and matching pots and caps. Pots and caps DEFINITELY make a difference ! But dang it, one guitar refuses to sound as good as the other, and I tried to find a "better" sound than a "real close" sound, and destroyed my best pot in the process. Turns out, pots are overly sensitive to heat from soldering too much...at least when I do them. And high ohm pots matched with high caps seem about the same as medium ohm pots with medium caps. In short, they are somewhat interactive. And the caps do affect the overall tone but more importantly, seem to be there to cut off high frequencies higher than the 1st string. Too strong of a cap starts suppressing the 1st string. Thankfully pots and caps don't take that long to swap out, but after trying enough pot and cap combinations and testing, it might be better to just buy a guitar already great sounding ! Pots and caps are getting pricy ! But we'll see. I want my "real close" combo back now ! Dang. I flew too close to the sun that time. All I had to do was back off the EQ one freaking step to be satisfying enough. Now I have to find another pot in the 5.5K range. But here's a heads up. I ordered a bunch of cheap A500K pots on ebay, hoping to get a wide range of ohms to try. What I got was a range of 550K - 620K ! What I hoped for was a range on either side of 500K. 550K was my favorite but still a tad too bright. The rest were just too bright period. Good quality pots are 9x as much money without any guarantee they will test near to 500K. But they should. But will they really ? Not real hopeful. I guess I'll have to go somewhere there are a lot of pots to test. All the local electronics places went belly up. I only have one music store that might have them. Ah...a guitar repair guy maybe. He might insist on doing the job though. A hardware store ? Geesh. Somebody somewhere has a drawer of pots, I can feel it...  Any suggestions on finding pots to test ? I guess I'll contact the seller of the cheap pots and see if they are nice enough to test the pots to find a 450K to 550k range. Probably not. But as my knowledge grows, I'm getting to be a believer in "the ONE" voodoo eg. all the elements of the guitar working together to produce a keeper guitar that is very hard to quantify and/or understand. I guess that's pretty obvious since the term "keeper guitar" implies a lot of guitars were compared and lost out. I suppose we could ask Clapton... |
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Peppy
Wholenote
Guitar gear guru at Milano Music Center
Posts: 180
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Post by Peppy on Mar 16, 2022 5:45:54 GMT -5
Then there is buying the right acoustic guitar. In my experience much harder to find than the right electric guitar.
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Post by Leftee on Mar 16, 2022 10:02:53 GMT -5
Then there is buying the right acoustic guitar. In my experience much harder to find than the right electric guitar. That's why I'm glad I'm not an acoustic guitar aficionado. |
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Post by LeftyMeister on Mar 16, 2022 10:11:15 GMT -5
That's why I'm glad I'm not an acoustic guitar aficionado. I have one acoustic and it suits me fine. |
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Post by orrk01 on Mar 16, 2022 10:17:29 GMT -5
Wait a minute. Everyone is glossing over the most important statement from the original post. "A few years back my wife insisted I needed another LP."
Can we all agree that Rickyguitar has the BEST WIFE EVER?
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Post by Leftee on Mar 16, 2022 10:19:21 GMT -5
Wait a minute. Everyone is glossing over the most important statement from the original post. "A few years back my wife insisted I needed another LP." Can we all agree that Rickyguitar has the BEST WIFE EVER? She’s right up there! While mine hasn’t done that, she doesn’t mind what I buy. |
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Post by Think Floyd on Mar 16, 2022 10:43:20 GMT -5
It is amazing to me that there can be so much difference in the same model. Both fit and sound. Many years ago, I was trying out an Epiphone Sheraton II at a local music store. They had a few in different colors, but each one had a neck that felt too thin. This franchise had a second store about 20 minutes away, so I went there and saw that they also had a few Sheratons. However, every Sheraton at that store had a neck that was too fat! I'm not sure if that was just a coincidence, or if someone separated the guitars by neck thickness when choosing what stock goes to which store. What's weird is that there was such a huge difference in neck thickness between different examples of the exact same model. |
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Post by Rick Knight on Mar 16, 2022 12:03:02 GMT -5
I bought a Strat Plus about 20 years ago and liked it well enough that I eventually bought 2 more. Not only did they all sound different, the necks felt different enough that I could identify them in the dark.
RE wives: Mine once said she didn't understand why I have so many guitars; but they probably cost less than the therapy I would need without them.
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Post by rickyguitar on Mar 16, 2022 13:19:24 GMT -5
Wait a minute. Everyone is glossing over the most important statement from the original post. "A few years back my wife insisted I needed another LP." Can we all agree that Rickyguitar has the BEST WIFE EVER? Yeah she's the one. She said she felt bad I sold my 1st LP years ago when I quit playing full time. A few years back we were flush and she pretty much made me buy another. I think it was a 2008 Traditional Gold top with 57's and a 50's neck profile. Over the course of a few years I came to really dislike the neck. Ended up selling it and getting a PRS. Funny tho, when I listen to recordings with that LP it sounds great. Last year she bought me a 5 string banjo and the year before a mandolin as birthday presents. |
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Post by reverendrob on Mar 16, 2022 20:10:01 GMT -5
It is amazing to me that there can be so much difference in the same model. Both fit and sound. Many years ago, I was trying out an Epiphone Sheraton II at a local music store. They had a few in different colors, but each one had a neck that felt too thin. This franchise had a second store about 20 minutes away, so I went there and saw that they also had a few Sheratons. However, every Sheraton at that store had a neck that was too fat! I'm not sure if that was just a coincidence, or if someone separated the guitars by neck thickness when choosing what stock goes to which store. What's weird is that there was such a huge difference in neck thickness between different examples of the exact same model. Chances are they came out of the same production run, versus "send X to store Z." |
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Post by reverendrob on Mar 16, 2022 20:11:04 GMT -5
That's why I'm glad I'm not an acoustic guitar aficionado. I have one acoustic and it suits me fine. My acoustic is electric.   |
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Post by funkykikuchiyo on Mar 17, 2022 10:25:15 GMT -5
Usually those instruments are the ones that are played consistently over the course of decades. That's the thing with the older gig-worn guitars you see on the market: they sounded great when they were new and they continued to sound great over the years, and they continued to be played. Hear me now and believe me later--Fender (and others) made bad guitars too, and those didn't get gigged. They usually were given to some nephew who dragged it around, left it outside in the rain, etc. Those kinds of guitar disappear into the ether. The jury is out for me on this chicken/egg thing. Often times the well-worn, well-played guitars that sound great will have absolutely nothing right about them, and the player also might not have picked it out of several - he might have just bought it because it was the one on the wall that he dreamed of and threw down his lawn mowing money at the end of the summer one year. Would they have traded it the next year with more lawn mowing money if it didn't sound great? Maybe.
I'm also basing this on comparing vintage guitars. When you get that rare gem that was under a bed for years and is virtually untouched, it often seems like a super-accurate reissue, but an old janky thing that has thousands of hours of play time might sound great. Did the one end up under the bed because it didn't sound great? Usually it comes down to other life circumstances than just the passion of the musician.
This is part of what makes guitar work so strange. I can't think of a truly scientific way to think about this. How would you do research or collect data? The best you could do would be to gather large amounts of information about existing information with the best-of-our-abilities consideration of how many hours of play an instrument has, and plug it all in like a meta-analysis.
Don't get me started on the people who say hide glue sounds better.  |
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Post by Peegoo 🏁 on Mar 17, 2022 11:23:40 GMT -5
RE wives: Mine once said she didn't understand why I have so many guitars; but they probably cost less than the therapy I would need without them. ^^^Often from a person that can justify spending $300 on a pair of shoes that they'll wear maybe once a year How would you do research or collect data? The best you could do would be to gather large amounts of information about existing information with the best-of-our-abilities consideration of how many hours of play an instrument has, and plug it all in like a meta-analysis. I tend to think the conclusions would apply only to the person that did the study. Tone is so subjective. If we could easily explain great guitar tone by a mathematical equation, we would already have it. However, we do have the formula for the correct number of guitars a player should own, thanks to this guy:  |
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Post by Leftee on Mar 17, 2022 12:17:48 GMT -5
Good thing I don't do math.
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Post by reverendrob on Mar 17, 2022 14:58:14 GMT -5
And N in this equation is..."how many guitars did Gibson make last year?"
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