|
Post by Leftee on Apr 1, 2022 10:39:09 GMT -5
I do this sort of wiring on any/every guitar - builds or bought.
|
|
|
Post by Auf Kiltre on Apr 1, 2022 12:01:40 GMT -5
I do this sort of wiring on any/every guitar - builds or bought. Well I jumped right in and kinda groovy. Definitely feel the difference in volume and tone interaction. Somewhere along the line I installed a Vitamin T tone cap and had to do some finagling to make it fit due to its canister size. Gonna have to dig out the toothpicks and wood glue I've had this sucker opened up so much, lol.
|
|
|
Post by Leftee on Apr 1, 2022 15:27:18 GMT -5
I buy the round toothpicks from Cracker Barrel.
Any excuse…
|
|
|
Post by Auf Kiltre on Apr 9, 2022 10:08:26 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by Leftee on Apr 9, 2022 11:00:00 GMT -5
I always use 300k volumes with P90s - but not Gib$on pots.
Often I will use 500k tones.
Both almost always audio. I don’t know if I even have any linear taper pots in “bench-stock.”
|
|
|
Post by Leftee on Apr 9, 2022 11:13:18 GMT -5
Does that make me bigoted?
|
|
|
Post by Auf Kiltre on Apr 9, 2022 11:53:47 GMT -5
I went with a 0.47 cap for the bridge pick up. I was a little dubious about all linear but something about this combination just works in this guitar. If I can remember back that far, the 50's tribs originally had 300k pots for volume, 500k for tone (don't know the taper used). Curiously, the 50's tribs didn't seem to use 50's wiring. So far I'm really digging that wiring in bother guitars I've tried them in.
|
|
009
Wholenote
Take me to your leader!
Posts: 519
|
Post by 009 on Apr 10, 2022 9:54:57 GMT -5
That shield plate, being an integral part of the wiring harness/assembly, is so cool. What a great idea. It seems it would facilitate both assembly and installation of the harness. Never seen this before. (It sure beats cardboard.) Nice.
|
|
|
Post by Auf Kiltre on Apr 10, 2022 10:12:51 GMT -5
It did make things easier and alignment was perfect.
|
|
pdf64
Wholenote
Posts: 556
|
Post by pdf64 on Apr 13, 2022 8:15:09 GMT -5
A few weeks ago, my friend was revamping his guitar, and asked my advice on pots. He plays in a rockabilly trio, runs his old Fender totally clean, SD P90s in a big bodied semiacoustic (D’Angelico I think). I suggested all 500k, but audio for the tones, linear for the volumes. On the basis that totally clean, when trying to turn down a fraction in the verse etc, an audio taper would seem to roll off too quickly. He’s wired it all up now, put a gig or 2’s road testing on it, and is very happy with how it’s all working. Except for the 47nF tone control caps, which he didn’t ask about. Too muffled at low settings. He’ll be changing to 22nF.
|
|
|
Post by Auf Kiltre on Apr 13, 2022 8:49:48 GMT -5
Except for the 47nF tone control caps, which he didn’t ask about. Too muffled at low settings. He’ll be changing to 22nF. I do hear a substantial difference between those two tone caps at zero, but really it makes very little difference to me. I think the only time I ever try that setting on a guitar is when testing the tone pot, or when I need to remind myself that I have virtually zero jazz chops, lol.
|
|
|
Post by Leftee on Apr 13, 2022 9:37:36 GMT -5
I tend to use .022uf for HBs and .015uf for single coils. Once I discovered that I could actually wire tone controls that did something, I started playing around with cap values and landed here.
The net result is that I can crank the tone control all the way down and the guitar tone is affected, but doesn’t turn to mud. It’s not a hard/fast rule. Different pickups sometimes want different values.
|
|
009
Wholenote
Take me to your leader!
Posts: 519
|
Post by 009 on May 5, 2022 5:45:24 GMT -5
Is there any agreement yet regarding the best pot mfr? I thought it would be Bourns, but I was looking at a couple of spec sheets for their guitar-specific pots and these had a tolerance of 20%…! To me, with my “new” hollow-body guitar, having a well-made, dependable pot may be more important in the long run. Replacing pots, or even cleaning them, will be a major task with the restricted access; forget about multiple experimentations, unless you have an unusual drive to do this, ice fishing pots through small openings with plastic tubing, etc. Every time I try to research this stuff I’m left just as bewildered at the end as I was at the beginning.
|
|
|
Post by Auf Kiltre on May 5, 2022 8:17:04 GMT -5
A friend who's opinion I trust has high praise for the Dunlop Super Pot, but dang they're pricey.
|
|
gbfun
Wholenote
I eat cookies to provide you with the best possible experience.
Posts: 463
|
Post by gbfun on May 5, 2022 9:02:27 GMT -5
Yeah, pots and caps are a little bewildering !
And a 20% variance claim seems a bit too sloppy...especially since it can easily be 25% or more !
On a 500K pot that's 100K plus or minus...and I can hear the difference with only 50K. Would an audience notice ? I doubt it. Could it be adjusted with EQ ? Maybe. I find that EQ is all fine and good but when trying to dial in the sweet spot, it doesn't usually work...unless you have low standards. I don't. The "sound" has to be there first...then it can be tweaked a bit after that. Surprisingly, the electronic pathway of pots and caps have a lot of influence on the sound...more than I thought. And with all the variances involved, it seems to be quite a crapshoot for what comes out. This could even explain how the same guitars coming off the same assembly line can sound so different. Again, if one doesn't hear it, it's not an issue. I hear it all too well. This is more of a curse than an asset perhaps.
I'm not sure there's a "best" pot as they seem to work slightly differently from each other. The tapers aren't the same.
I don't find the need to worry about cleaning pots on guitars that much though. This might be an overkill concern.
And with a hollow-body guitar, maybe it's best to leave it alone and explore EQ settings instead. If you boost and cut enough, whatever sound you seek might be easier to find than fiddling with the pots and caps. I'm just fiddling because I can, and I have a guitar that already has the sound I want. And I'm not having much luck so far.
And if you really can't bond with the guitar, sell yours and find one that is closer to what you want. A note of warning though. I have far too often despised a guitar or piece of equipment that I wanted to sell immediately, only to fall in love with it after I learn more about how to make it sing ! This might take months or even decades, but this happens to me so often I'm a little embarrassed really. But the more knowledge and experience one gains, the more these "tools" come under control.
But there are definitely "good" and "bad" guitars to consider, of course. But is it the guitar ? Or the musician ? That's a tough one.
I've seen it all ways, and now I've played with pots and caps. On a hollow body, it might be best to go the EQ route and skip the pots and caps jungle !
There's a lot of variance in EQ boxes and EQ sections on amps too. One can spend MONTHS there real easy.
Electronic music is a journey...what can I say ?
|
|
|
Post by Auf Kiltre on May 7, 2022 9:15:06 GMT -5
I ordered one of those Dunlop Super Pots (split shaft 250k) as one of my Strats has a wonky volume pot. I'm looking forward to 7 million turns as advertised.
|
|
009
Wholenote
Take me to your leader!
Posts: 519
|
Post by 009 on May 7, 2022 12:04:24 GMT -5
|
|
pdf64
Wholenote
Posts: 556
|
Post by pdf64 on May 7, 2022 12:14:59 GMT -5
… these had a tolerance of 20%…! To me, with my “new” hollow-body guitar, having a well-made, dependable pot may be more important in the long run. ... I don’t see why a 20% tolerance on the track resistance value would indicate a greater likelihood for reliability problems?
|
|
009
Wholenote
Take me to your leader!
Posts: 519
|
Post by 009 on May 7, 2022 12:41:50 GMT -5
… these had a tolerance of 20%…! To me, with my “new” hollow-body guitar, having a well-made, dependable pot may be more important in the long run. ... I don’t see why a 20% tolerance on the track resistance value would indicate a greater likelihood for reliability problems? What I mean is that any tolerance would take second seat, in that it would not be the most important factor for consideration/selection. Rather/instead, the first priority would be dependability of function, and that would be (in my eyes) a sealed potentiometer. Having the greatest time/use before failure would minimize or even preclude my having to tear out the wiring harness of my hollow body guitar for pot maintenance or repair. (Stats and teles are easy to access and work on, comparatively speaking.) Sorry, I should have used more commas.... ;-) PS - I suppose I was a little surprised to see a quality mfr. (Bourns) sell pots with a 20% tolerance, hence the exclamation mark. Who really wants that? Knowing that all pots will be "off" to some degree, shooting for a tighter tolerance would be the objective. Those Model 82 Bourns pots at 10% are appealing. I see that CTS sells some pots with a 5% tolerance, but, again, having a maintenance-free, sealed pot would be most advantageous. User reviews, etc., report that those sealed Dunlop Super pots are really maintenance-free. My pot universe has only three models of pots, the ones I listed. From what I can tell from scouting out the Internet, this Starfire has four 500k pots; info is scarce. So, I'm going to have to think about going all four as audio taper, all four as linear, or two of each. I'll have to re-read this entire thread again two or three times. But, I'll have to have the extracted wiring harness in my hand and study the existing pots, test/measure them, etc. If I have four identical new pots, again, I can use the closest two to my measurements of the stock pots (assume 500k) to get the same original/stock tones. I do want to maintain the sound qualities as Guild intended. The bridge tone pot does not affect the tone at all; kaput. The neck tone pot is scratchy. I think I'm going to replace the entire harness, switch and all.
|
|
009
Wholenote
Take me to your leader!
Posts: 519
|
Post by 009 on May 8, 2022 6:15:49 GMT -5
I ordered one of those Dunlop Super Pots (split shaft 250k) as one of my Strats has a wonky volume pot. I'm looking forward to 7 million turns as advertised. I was just reading all the reviews via that Amazon link in my previous post. By far, the greatest complaint--and apparently the Achilles Heel of this pot--is that the lugs break off very easily. One Italian reviewer suggested that you heat a lug with your soldering iron before bending. A lot of guys get in trouble bending a lug down for grounding to the base of the pot; safer just to solder on a jumper and not bend anything. PS - These look good. Avoid soldering to the pot. Still probably need to solder a jumper. Soldering to the pot is always difficult. No worry about overheating something inside the pot. www.amplifiedparts.com/products/solder-lug-6-or-8-hole-locking
|
|
|
Post by Auf Kiltre on May 8, 2022 8:10:49 GMT -5
I was just reading all the reviews via that Amazon link in my previous post. By far, the greatest complaint--and apparently the Achilles Heel of this pot--is that the lugs break off very easily. One Italian reviewer suggested that you heat a lug with your soldering iron before bending. A lot of guys get in trouble bending a lug down for grounding to the base of the pot; safer just to solder on a jumper and not bend anything. Thanks for the heads up.
|
|
|
Post by Leftee on May 8, 2022 8:42:47 GMT -5
I’ve never been a fan of the leg bending. I keep a stash of clippings from Orange Drops, etc, where I’ve had to cut away some of the leads. I use those for pot grounds.
|
|
|
Post by Auf Kiltre on May 8, 2022 10:42:02 GMT -5
I wired up my Strat with the Stew Mac Golden Ages using a 300k volume pot (actually reading around 293k), "Eric Johnson wiring" (no tone to middle pot) but not the big pancake .1uf cap, instead a .022 cap. I thought the pickups weren't as lively as some others, but not in a bad way. I removed the shielding around the coils and with this wiring its definitely brighter. Not sure about the no tone to middle thing. I'm not seeing an advantage over tone 1 controlling neck/middle, tone 2 dedicated bridge. I'll live with it for now.
All this is helping my soldering abilities. In theory😄
|
|
|
Post by Auf Kiltre on May 9, 2022 12:08:08 GMT -5
So I ordered the Dunlop Super Pot from zzounds who had the best price. Shipped 2nd day air, free shipping! Pot measures 253K so, yay. I was giving the lugs the stink eye after all those snapping off reviews so soldered a leg from a resistor.
Smooth operation and nice taper. Don't know if it's worth the cost, time will tell.
|
|
|
Post by LTB on May 30, 2022 2:32:09 GMT -5
It would be really cool if the ear heard linearly with a linear pot. Ok I woke up now
|
|
|
Post by Auf Kiltre on Jun 3, 2022 12:54:02 GMT -5
So I'm planning on swapping pickups in one Strat build that currently has 500k pots for the set that is in there. I bought a trio of 250k Fender Pure Vintage audio pots which are rebranded CTS pots. Measuring them with the multimeter I get 225k, 251k and 263k.
In case anyone is interested in the variances of this brand.
|
|
gbfun
Wholenote
I eat cookies to provide you with the best possible experience.
Posts: 463
|
Post by gbfun on Jun 6, 2022 2:33:20 GMT -5
Well congrats ! That's within a 10% range, which even using "special" math, is better than the common 20% range. Just don't overheat those puppies with your solder iron...
|
|