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Post by Larry Madsen on Jan 20, 2023 20:57:15 GMT -5
This is my plan to line things up as perfectly as I can. It utilizes the entire length of the necks to do the job. Then just get the height (for the head stock transition) where I want it. IMG_4624 by Larry Madsen, on Flickr IMG_4625 by Larry Madsen, on Flickr IMG_4627 by Larry Madsen, on Flickr IMG_4626 by Larry Madsen, on Flickr There is a little bit more to it than just this, but this is the basics of the alignment.
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Post by Larry Madsen on Feb 9, 2023 22:47:51 GMT -5
The head stock is cut! A tiny bit of shaping on the transition to the neck left, but not much. You can see on the right I got it a bit too tight at the nut. Shouldn't be a big deal, but I don't want any additional errors on this. IMG_4682 by Larry Madsen, on Flickr Marked for tuner holes. IMG_4684 by Larry Madsen, on Flickr
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Post by funkykikuchiyo on Feb 10, 2023 10:42:55 GMT -5
Looks good!
The pencil line for the tuners LOOKS like it isn't parallel with the side of the peghead, but I'm going to guess that is an optic illusion, right?
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Post by Larry Madsen on Feb 10, 2023 12:49:07 GMT -5
There are actually 2 lines.
I marked it with the template first (which was very close) but it measured off a bit
I have taken it into account.
I’m thinking I should make a first tiny hole to be as precise as possible on placement then drill them out to size.
Good plan? Bad plan? Thoughts?
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Post by Larry Madsen on Feb 10, 2023 19:18:13 GMT -5
For better or for worse ... Peg holes are drilled. They are pretty good, I think. IMG_4685[1] by Larry Madsen, on Flickr Next up? Do I paint the head stock yellow? Do I install the nut? It does set in very nicely and is perfect in width. IMG_4687[1] by Larry Madsen, on Flickr Do I oil the neck? IMG_4686[1] by Larry Madsen, on Flickr I have a can of Teak Oil I have used on guitar bodies in the past. Or should I be mounting it to the body then size things up and assess from there?
Recommendations on the next step appreciated.
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Post by funkykikuchiyo on Feb 11, 2023 11:27:04 GMT -5
There are actually 2 lines. I marked it with the template first (which was very close) but it measured off a bit I have taken it into account. I’m thinking I should make a first tiny hole to be as precise as possible on placement then drill them out to size. Good plan? Bad plan? Thoughts? Whatever you did it seems to look good.
Copying existing holes, whether for something like this or laying out hardware, is always hard because you have old tolerances (maybe several of them stacked) where things might be off, and you're also eyeballing hole centers. Even if you could locate the hole centers perfectly, you're still stacking another tolerance level on top of an old one. If it was me, I'd have roughly marked where the old ones were, measured, and figured out what it was SUPPOSED to be and use that as my marks. Usually some round number will seem to be the intended dimension, and will become obvious. That gives you a good reset.
A small mark at the center and a brad point bit is ideal. Good work holding on a drill press makes it even better. If I didn't have a brad point bit, I'd do what you said and mark, put a small hole - small enough that the bit won't wander, but big enough that the next bit can center on it easily. If you have brad point bits but not the right size, using one that is smaller and widening can be good, too.
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Post by Larry Madsen on Feb 11, 2023 12:13:22 GMT -5
Pretty much did as you describe. Marked then measured.
I did use a drill press for the holes.
I did mount the tuners and then the neck on the body. Working out the shim now.
Probably workable as I have it, but when I get home from work I’ll re-evaluate. Might go to a thinner shim.
I only have a couple of strings on now as rough guide. All six strings and up to tune might prove that I am fine as is.
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Post by Larry Madsen on Feb 11, 2023 20:05:19 GMT -5
I have it strung up to pitch with a set of Ernie Ball 9s. IMG_4690[1] by Larry Madsen, on Flickr What had seemed possibly way too low on the action now seems quite workable. The neck is showing just the slightest bit of relief as it sits straight out of the box from Warmoth. It's half-A$$ playable right now. Need to raise the low E-string saddle to eliminate some buzz, but the set-up on this should be easy-peasy. I might just let it sit and settle in until tomorrow, then re-evaluate. I am noticing that I may need to move the tuner peg holes on the low E and A string inward just a bit. Not that I take great joy in doweling in and redrilling them, but I do see an alignment issue. 🫤
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Post by Larry Madsen on Feb 13, 2023 12:03:43 GMT -5
I am noticing that I may need to move the tuner peg holes on the low E and A string inward just a bit. Not that I take great joy in doweling in and redrilling them, but I do see an alignment issue. 🫤 I got up at about 4:30am, wide awake. Made a pot of coffee and took the guitar apart and went ahead with redrilling the two tuner holes. In full disclosure, I had dowelled them in last night Anyway, the strings line up much better now and the two (E & A) tuners are in from the edge now matching the four on the other side. If you compare the E & A string alignment (above the nut) from this PIC to the previous PIC you can easily see it is now much better. IMG_4693[1] by Larry Madsen, on Flickr As for the low E string buzz, I raised the saddle about as much as I want to. The remaining buzz is now at the nut. The other five strings are just dandy at the nut, so I am 83% good. The nut is not glued in yet. I do not want to change to a new nut if I can make this one good at the low E string. Is there anything I can do as I glue in the nut to create a tiny bit of elevation? Should I expect that simply gluing it in will create a tiny bit of elevation? I am aware of the CA trick in the slot, though I have never done it. Thoughts and advice appreciated. Edited to add a crazy thought from my end:I'll be using "Original Titebond" for my nut installation. Would it be totally crazy to add just a tiny bit of very fine sawdust (from sanding) to the glue and hope for a slight bit of additional elevation in the finished job? Do you think I would I be sacrificing good adhesion?I'll edit and toss this in here. The truss rod cover had a very unique shape in the theme of the guitar "Fuel". The old one is way too small to cover the recess Warmoth uses.
I took the "arrow head" shaped truss rod cover Warmoth sent and modified it to the theme of this guitar. This is what I ended up with: IMG_4695[1] by Larry Madsen, on Flickr I'm pretty happy with it, but I think I'll make the screws black for final assembly. IMG_4701[1] by Larry Madsen, on Flickr
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Post by Larry Madsen on Feb 13, 2023 16:58:02 GMT -5
I thought of moving forward on the nut. I pulled it and took a much closer look than I had up to now. Noticing just how deep this low E slot is cut. IMG_4698[1] by Larry Madsen, on Flickr This is certainly a slot problem ... for the most part. Here is my plan: If I go to the CA method I need some material to fill the slot. I decided I could get some nut material by using 220 grit then sanding and reshaping the ends of the nut a bit and then reshaping the back side of the nut. This should get me plenty of nut material directly from this existing nut and not impact the height or functionality of the nut once it is re-installed. This is where I am at with it: IMG_4699[1] by Larry Madsen, on Flickr First time using this trick. Slot is GONE! IMG_4703[1] by Larry Madsen, on Flickr I think I'm in business. One more edit: After I re-installed the nut, I discovered now the high E slot was low as well. The other 4 check out fine when tuned up to pitch. Must have been a result of me cleaning the nut with lacquer thinner and a nylon brush ... possibly cleared out some gunk in the slot that had been supporting the string. I sanded off some more material and mended the high E slot as well. I won't try cutting slots until tomorrow when I have a fresh clear outlook on things.
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Post by Larry Madsen on Feb 14, 2023 9:21:14 GMT -5
Time to break out the nut files: IMG_4704[1] by Larry Madsen, on Flickr Wish me luck Done … starter cuts for now. I’ll dial them in after the nut is glued in. Went .046” on low E and .010” on high E. Current strings are .042” & .009”. The B string is very low, but no buzz. It stays as is for now.
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Post by funkykikuchiyo on Feb 14, 2023 10:25:25 GMT -5
Good luck!
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Post by Larry Madsen on Feb 14, 2023 15:21:51 GMT -5
This project is going on the back burner until next week. It is very playable as it sits. I plugged it in for a quick run. Sounds very powerful. I glued the nut in place with a slight mix of original titebond and very fine sawdust to maybe give the nut a tiny bit of elevation. Up to this point I am very happy with where the project is at. Next up ... Paint the headstock yellow.
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Post by Larry Madsen on Feb 19, 2023 19:59:26 GMT -5
Update: Head stock is painted yellow. I had the paint a tad thick, it wasn't spraying well. Usually I would do several coats. With how it was going I layed down a single heavy coat in the hopes it would flatten out as it sat. It is doing just that. I needed to have enough to sand it flat ... hopefully I do. IMG_4719 by Larry Madsen, on Flickr I also received my Ostrich leg. It looks to be a good complementary shade to go with the yellow guitar. IMG_4721 by Larry Madsen, on Flickr
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Post by Larry Madsen on Feb 20, 2023 10:09:10 GMT -5
Here we are with that paint having settled over night and the edge cleaned up from tape removal. Paint settled by Larry Madsen, on Flickr Edge view: Painted edge. by Larry Madsen, on Flickr I'm happy with this. I'll give it another day to set up then hit it with some 1200 (something very fine) and get to a more glassy smooth surface. I did have one problem, that being with the nut. As I removed the tape my nut pulled loose. Looking at a re-do on that Nut pulled loose by Larry Madsen, on Flickr
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Post by Larry Madsen on Feb 20, 2023 11:58:41 GMT -5
Regarding the nut install. My Titebond did not seem to grab the nut material very well. As mentioned it pulled loose while removing tape, problem might be on me. It might also be the nut is plastic and not very compatible with the Titebond. Also of note ... the nut has holes drilled on the base, presumable to help adhesive grab the nut. The nut is missing the hole on the treble side (probably) filled with old adhesive. You can see in the PIC, the Titebond has created a "locator pin" of glue from the hole in the bass side. I'm thinking of drilling out that missing hole and maybe an additional couple of holes in the base to help out. I'm assuming the nut is not brittle and easily broken. I'll see how it goes. Edited to add: The nut drilled just fine. I am more convinced than ever the nut is just a piece of plastic and not any particularly special plastic at that. I put back the "missing" hole and added two more out over the sections contacting the wood. The center hole is above the truss rod and I'm not really trying to glue to the truss rod. I'll try once more with the Titebond Original. IMG_4727 by Larry Madsen, on Flickr I'll be clamping it in this time ... not strings to hold it in place. Meh ... Not liking my options on "clamping" at the moment. I think I'll revert to turning those truss rod cover screw heads black ... for now.
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sirWheat
Wholenote
For a better future, play Stevie Wonder for your children.
Posts: 319
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Post by sirWheat on Feb 21, 2023 17:29:38 GMT -5
I'm guessing the problem is the addition of the sawdust, along with the possibility that the titebond doesn't like the plastic. I would use CA glue, and not much of it if you absolutely HAVE to use that nut. I would make a new one; trying to gain some height with glue (and sawdust) probably won't work for very long if at all.
Otherwise, the headstock looks great!
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Post by Larry Madsen on Feb 21, 2023 18:06:35 GMT -5
Yes, the head stock did turn out well. The paint settled to a point it was an easy sand to flat. I decided to wait on the nut until I get the guitar strung up. I am on my third coat of teak oil. this will be it on neck finish. I have not wiped off the excess yet. It won't have this thick glossy look when done. IMG_4740 by Larry Madsen, on Flickr I'm eager to get the neck back on the body and move forward. I'll let the neck sit for a few days while I finish up that crazy guitar strap. Edited to add: I wiped off the excess and now down to the end of this 3-coat process. Now just give it time to harden up. The finished look is almost as though there is no finish over the wood, but the sheen of the finish is present and visible. IMG_4744 by Larry Madsen, on Flickr
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Post by Larry Madsen on Feb 22, 2023 23:01:05 GMT -5
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Post by Larry Madsen on Feb 24, 2023 21:22:35 GMT -5
It looks like I'll be moving the bridge back. Intonation is coming in sharp (on 4 strings) at 12th fret and I'm basically out of adjustment. I suppose I could pull the springs off the saddle screws, but that's not really a fix. Sadly, it is strings through the body, so I'd be plugging and redrilling holes and then of course paint ... again. I don't imagine the neck change caused it. With the problems on the prior neck, I never got this deep into a set-up on that first iteration. Edited to add: I think I will pull those springs just to see if I can get to decent intonation using the space available. That would be a piece of good information to know before I try actually moving the bridge.
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Post by Auf Kiltre on Feb 24, 2023 21:43:08 GMT -5
Nice looking work Larry. Shame about the intonation.
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Post by funkykikuchiyo on Feb 25, 2023 11:44:29 GMT -5
Another trick for a visual aid: put the end of a stick against the nut, and mark at the 12th fret. move the end of the stick to the 12th fret, and that gives you where the scale length lands. On an electric, the high e usually ends up just a bit past that, but not much... .020" or so. I forget on the low e, I have it written down... on an electric... maybe 5/32" or so? If I was repositioning the bridge, I'd use that method to get the high e and eyeball where I think saddle should be, and then just make sure the rest of it is square.
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Post by Larry Madsen on Feb 25, 2023 12:13:25 GMT -5
Thanks funky.
I’ll use that info.
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Post by Larry Madsen on Feb 26, 2023 21:52:44 GMT -5
Getting it figured. Stick (old coat hanger) nut to 12th fret. IMG_4758[1] by Larry Madsen, on Flickr 12th fret to high E saddle on bridge. Saddle is fully extended leaving just a little additional northerly adjustment. IMG_4760[1] by Larry Madsen, on Flickr Based on this I will be able to move the bridge south 4mm. Actually, that 4mm number came from measuring the distance I moved that high E-string saddle north from its previous position where intonation was good (as the bridge now sits). Edited to add: As a quick experiment I did pull the spring off the low E saddle screw. The low E-string does intonate pretty well when extended all the way back, minus the spring. Measuring the spring displacement fully collapsed I get 2.8mm
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Post by Larry Madsen on Feb 28, 2023 11:03:23 GMT -5
All the prior string holes are plugged. IMG_4768[1] by Larry Madsen, on Flickr I have the bridge repositioned to my satisfaction. It's south by the 4mm and I also moved it to the high E side just a fraction. My string previous alignment had the low E side a bit tight with the edge of the neck and the high E with room to move over. My quick evaluation holding strings in the slots looks centered much better. hopefully that is still the case when things are all strung up and tuned to pitch, IMG_4770[1] by Larry Madsen, on Flickr I also need to move the PUP over to the right. The route is very tight and is crowding the mounts below the ring. You can see the PUP is pushed to the right side in the ring. I need to open up the rout (below) on the right side and move the ring over to free up the suspension on the PUP and get it lined up a bit farther to the right. One thing about all this "extra curricular" activity is things will be much closer to perfect once the guitar is all back together in final form. I like that! Now to redrill the string through holes and ferrules openings. They were not perfectly straight before, hopefully I can line them up better this time. Stage 1 ... pretty close to dead straight. Now to see if I can enlarge for ferrules and keep it that way. IMG_4771[1] by Larry Madsen, on Flickr
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Post by Larry Madsen on Feb 28, 2023 16:56:21 GMT -5
This guitar is DONE ... well except for the repaint.
The bridge intonates just dandy now. The strings are even across the neck now. The PUP is centered. The nut is back in proper order. Plugged it in, everything is functioning well.
I'll just clean up my mess here and walk away from this one for a week or so.
I have several other projects (unrelated to guitars) to get done around here.
I'll pick this project back up down the road and get into some fine tuning on the set-up.
Not sure if that will be before or after I get into the paint issue.
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