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Post by woodyblues on Aug 10, 2022 17:17:21 GMT -5
After many decades of playing guitars with a 25 1/2" scale length I now also have a 24 3/4" "Gibson" type scale length guitar. I always thought the shorter scale length ones were supposed to be easier at bending strings. But this one seems to have a very tight 1st string pull and I wonder why that is? This guitar has a wraparound bridge. I wonder if that is a contributing factor?
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Post by Leftee on Aug 10, 2022 17:22:12 GMT -5
Your theory is correct. Tuned to the same pitch, the shorter scale will be lower tension.
That said, things like setup affect the feel of a guitar quite a bit. For instance, in the action is too low, I find it hard to bend strings because I can’t get my fingertips into the strings properly.
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Post by cedarchoper58 on Aug 10, 2022 17:38:09 GMT -5
are your strats decked mine is just barley decked and pulls up when bending strings and plays like butter
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Post by woodyblues on Aug 10, 2022 18:49:02 GMT -5
I am using the same brand and gauge of strings used on all my other guitars. The setup is pretty good on the guitar...I do them myself and know what I like. But that damn 1st string is tight and I think the wraparound bridge which doesn't incorporate that Gibson combination of a separate bridge and tail piece might be the problem as the string doesn't extend beyond the bridge. So I plan to just drop the 1st string from a .009 to a .085 and see if that helps. I tried a .008 but it was both too stretchy and not as loud. I always used a 9 to 42 set and like their balance but maybe this small change might make all the difference.
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Post by reverendrob on Aug 10, 2022 18:54:03 GMT -5
I genuinely don't notice a meaningful difference in guitar scale lengths until several inches are involved.
The 27.something 7 string DOES play differently from the Mustang in feel in that regard, but the Mustang to Les Paul to Strat?
Doesn't really get noticed.
On bass I notice more, but I'm going from 30" to 34".
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Post by samspade on Aug 10, 2022 19:16:56 GMT -5
I did play a Fender Uptown Strat which is basically Fender copying a Les Paul, Mahogany body, and neck, and...Les paul scale length. I've played super strats with similar scale length and HB's, but this combo really captured the mid-range snarl and chirp of a les paul. So I believe all those factors contributed. Edited to add, an amazing guitar, the coil taps also nice
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Post by funkykikuchiyo on Aug 10, 2022 19:32:43 GMT -5
What Leftee said.
What is an "optical illusion" but for your fingers? Even neck profile can change how you grip a neck enough to change how tight it feels. When most people bend they're pushing up on the string and down on some part of the neck, so this can be a big deal. If you aren't getting as good of a grip pushing against your bend, it very well may feel like you're exerting the same/more effort.
Things like a floating trem and so on technically don't change tension, because the three things affecting tension are only ever going to be pitch, vibrating length and string gauge... though, as the string glides around it can offer a different feel. If the trem is pulling up as you bend it might feel looser, but ultimately you have to bend it just as much to reach a desired pitch. The math won't let you get away with it actually requiring less force. It'll just feel different.
I did work for a bass player years ago (a very good one) who insisted that some basses just felt "tighter" or "looser"... all were 34" scale, all had the same strings (he was an endorsee, and usually had similar hardware. Hard to say. I never did figure out what it was that he was intuiting from bass to bass. My best guess was that he was using his ears more than his hands to get the "tight" and "loose" assessments, but... dunno.
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pdf64
Wholenote
Posts: 557
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Post by pdf64 on Aug 11, 2022 3:03:34 GMT -5
If frets are too low, it becomes harder to push strings across the fretboard. Because the player’s fingertips are being pressed into the fretboard between the frets, increasing friction.
In the case of a trem system that isn’t hard decked, bending strings will require them to be pushed further across the fretboard.
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Post by Auf Kiltre on Aug 11, 2022 7:56:59 GMT -5
I have over the years slotted a few nuts too low that didn't buzz on open strings but made for a bit of a struggle when bending.
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Post by cedarchoper58 on Aug 11, 2022 10:11:08 GMT -5
What Leftee said. Things like a floating trem and so on technically don't change tension, because the three things affecting tension are only ever going to be pitch, vibrating length and string gauge... though, as the string glides around it can offer a different feel. If the trem is pulling up as you bend it might feel looser, but ultimately you have to bend it just as much to reach a desired pitch. The math won't let you get away with it actually requiring less force. It'll just feel different. floating the trem arm deffently makes it more slinky. There is less tension on the springs than when its decked. so when you bend the springs let the bridge rise. Works for me with it barley decked. if i tighten the claw where its decked hard there is deffently more tensison |
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Post by Auf Kiltre on Aug 11, 2022 10:17:51 GMT -5
Not to hijack but have any of you found different string tensions between equal gauge sets? I typically use EB Slinkys 10-46. Strung a set of GHS Rollerwounds with exact string gauges and my floating trem is considerably more raised, telling me the GHS had more tension.
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Post by funkykikuchiyo on Aug 11, 2022 10:29:53 GMT -5
What Leftee said. Things like a floating trem and so on technically don't change tension, because the three things affecting tension are only ever going to be pitch, vibrating length and string gauge... though, as the string glides around it can offer a different feel. If the trem is pulling up as you bend it might feel looser, but ultimately you have to bend it just as much to reach a desired pitch. The math won't let you get away with it actually requiring less force. It'll just feel different. floating the trem arm deffently makes it more slinky. There is less tension on the springs than when its decked. so when you bend the springs let the bridge rise. Works for me with it barley decked. if i tighten the claw where its decked hard there is deffently more tensison
It will feel more loose, but as the bridge raises it lowers the tension and flattens the pitch, which means you have to pull the string farther up the fingerboard to get to that higher tension to achieve the same pitch - say, a whole step bend. It'll feel different, but ultimately the math makes it so it all just washes out in the end.
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Post by funkykikuchiyo on Aug 11, 2022 10:31:58 GMT -5
Not to hijack but have any of you found different string tensions between equal gauge sets? I typically use EB Slinkys 10-46. Strung a set of GHS Rollerwounds with exact string gauges and my floating trem is considerably more raised, telling me the GHS had more tension. Tension on plain strings should be the same by gauge, but wound strings are different. The tension can be different based on core diameter, winding diameter, and probably a whole mess of other factors. |
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Post by Leftee on Aug 11, 2022 11:12:48 GMT -5
To further confound this topic…
For several years, now, I’ve top-load my Teles because I think that makes them feel slinkier.
But I may be full of the 💩
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Post by cedarchoper58 on Aug 11, 2022 12:30:42 GMT -5
floating the trem arm deffently makes it more slinky. There is less tension on the springs than when its decked. so when you bend the springs let the bridge rise. Works for me with it barley decked. if i tighten the claw where its decked hard there is deffently more tensison
It will feel more loose, but as the bridge raises it lowers the tension and flattens the pitch, which means you have to pull the string farther up the fingerboard to get to that higher tension to achieve the same pitch - say, a whole step bend. It'll feel different, but ultimately the math makes it so it all just washes out in the end.
true for full bends but vibrato and small bends are easier |
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sirWheat
Wholenote
For a better future, play Stevie Wonder for your children.
Posts: 319
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Post by sirWheat on Aug 11, 2022 16:08:07 GMT -5
It's been a while since I've used any Boomers but my recollection is that they felt stiffer...
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Post by cedarchoper58 on Aug 11, 2022 18:18:02 GMT -5
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pdf64
Wholenote
Posts: 557
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Post by pdf64 on Aug 11, 2022 18:33:59 GMT -5
It's been a while since I've used any Boomers but my recollection is that they felt stiffer... are differtent brands different in tension? … Any brand may have various product lines. Each product line may have have a different ratio of core to winding diameter. My thinking is that regardless of scale length, the longer the total string length between the fixed anchor points (eg tailpiece and tuning peg, the stretchier the string will be, and hence when bending a fretted note, the greater the lateral deflection required to raise the pitch a given degree. |
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Post by funkykikuchiyo on Aug 11, 2022 19:35:59 GMT -5
To further confound this topic… For several years, now, I’ve top-load my Teles because I think that makes them feel slinkier. But I may be full of the 💩 If I had to guess, I'd say that the tone is brighter and snappier, which means you play slightly lighter than you would otherwise because it is responsive with a lighter touch. If an instrument sounds "stiff", it might feel "stiff".
An alternate theory is that with a lighter break angle at the saddle the string is gliding around a bit on you, but in practice I don't see it actually moving that much. If the string did move that much, our dents in the saddles would be much more dramatic than they are.
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Post by Leftee on Aug 11, 2022 20:02:30 GMT -5
I think it’s more than I’m full of the 💩
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