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Post by cedarchoper58 on Sept 1, 2022 12:22:26 GMT -5
is there any difference in tone between pre cbs fender pat pend saddles and modern fender fender saddle replacements thks
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Post by Auf Kiltre on Sept 1, 2022 12:49:16 GMT -5
Do you mean the vintage bent steel saddles vs the modern block ones, or current production bent steel (vintage style) ones?
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Post by cedarchoper58 on Sept 1, 2022 14:08:14 GMT -5
Do you mean the vintage bent steel saddles vs the modern block ones, or current production bent steel (vintage style) ones? bent steel vintage vs bent steel current production |
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Post by Auf Kiltre on Sept 1, 2022 14:33:15 GMT -5
No experience with vintage saddles to compare but I'd be willing to bet we'd all fail miserably in a blind test.
To add, I'm a believer in "sum of all parts" but a piece of metal with a small contact point for the string has to be one of the smallest contributions to the equation. Quality of the part as it contributes to wear, saddle screws etc. is one thing, but tone? Nah. JMO.
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Post by markfromhawaii on Sept 1, 2022 14:48:00 GMT -5
I have a ‘62 reissue Strat from ‘97. The only thing I’m really not in love with is the thin bridge pup sound on the first string. I found out Eric Johnson uses a modern saddle on the first string to fatten up the tone. I may have to try this out.
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Post by Auf Kiltre on Sept 1, 2022 14:55:47 GMT -5
Yeah, I think comparing a vintage style saddle to a modern block saddle is a different thing. More contact with the string, more mass and contact with the adjacent saddles.
But since EJ can hear the difference in battery types, who am I to opine? 😄
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Post by Leftee on Sept 1, 2022 14:57:47 GMT -5
I suspect you’d have to sniff the cork pretty hard to hear the difference between stamped steel saddles.
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Post by cedarchoper58 on Sept 1, 2022 15:57:11 GMT -5
Yeah, I think comparing a vintage style saddle to a modern block saddle is a different thing. More contact with the string, more mass and contact with the adjacent saddles. But since EJ can hear the difference in battery types, who am I to opine? 😄 If you really try you can deffently hear the difference in battery types with a clean amp just brought into over drive. |
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Post by Auf Kiltre on Sept 1, 2022 15:59:17 GMT -5
It could be the operating frequency of my tinnitus that prevents me from hearing it, lol.
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Post by cedarchoper58 on Sept 1, 2022 16:11:53 GMT -5
It could be the operating frequency of my tinnitus that prevents me from hearing it, lol. your lucky because at times it almost drives me insaine  |
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Post by Auf Kiltre on Sept 2, 2022 10:46:21 GMT -5
I have a ‘62 reissue Strat from ‘97. The only thing I’m really not in love with is the thin bridge pup sound on the first string. I found out Eric Johnson uses a modern saddle on the first string to fatten up the tone. I may have to try this out. Having nothing better to do this morning and finding a block saddle in the parts bin I gave this a shot. It does seem marginally less "plinky" but I would not call it empirical evidence, lol. Its been laying around so long I have no recollection what it came from, so it may not be the best material.  |
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Post by reverendrob on Sept 3, 2022 1:54:58 GMT -5
I don't think the material used in ANY of them is "the best" - it's always been cheap stuff.
The only exception (and it's not Fender) are the titanium hardware/saddles on some of my Gibsons), and frankly, I doubt it makes much difference.
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DrKev
Wholenote
It's just a guitar, it's not rocket science.
Posts: 418
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Post by DrKev on Sept 3, 2022 3:56:29 GMT -5
I don't think the material used in ANY of them is "the best" - it's always been cheap stuff. Correct! The folklore surrounding Leo Fender forgets that he was a cheapskate and not being a musician sometimes didn't know what he was doing. He had to be persuaded that a truss rod was necessary and that was only after 50 Esquires had been made without one! He never used "the best" materials, he used the cheapest way possible that didn't make a crappy guitar. And THAT is how the sound of rock'n'roll was forged. |
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Post by Auf Kiltre on Sept 3, 2022 8:02:44 GMT -5
I've seen some reference to the EJ High E magic tone block being brass. I don't know if most of them are and just chrome plated, or that any of it would make a difference.
The best saddles for Strats that I've tried are the Highwoods, and not necessarily because improved tone but functionality. Sticking to aesthetic design but with improvements like string slots and recessed screws that don't shred your palm.
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Post by Leftee on Sept 3, 2022 8:08:22 GMT -5
I used a set of Tusq saddles on the Tiki-Caster. I haven’t done a comparo of these against steel block saddles. It might be an interesting experiment.
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Post by funkykikuchiyo on Sept 3, 2022 9:47:24 GMT -5
I don't think the material used in ANY of them is "the best" - it's always been cheap stuff. Correct! The folklore surrounding Leo Fender forgets that he was a cheapskate and not being a musician sometimes didn't know what he was doing. He had to be persuaded that a truss rod was necessary and that was only after 50 Esquires had been made without one! He never used "the best" materials, he used the cheapest way possible that didn't make a crappy guitar. And THAT is how the sound of rock'n'roll was forged. I agree, but would add an asterisk. In those days, manufacturing was all about machine shops and tougher materials. So, if he just bought a plain ol' sheet of steel, that sheet of steel was going to be different because the manufacturing eco system was completely different.
Pickup makers run into this - trying to duplicate the old stuff is surprisingly hard, even if they were just using the basic tools and materials in front of them at the time. Trying to get into the time machine and manufacture the way they did 50, 60 or 70 years ago can get expensive.
Today things are cheaper and more accessible. It is why a fridge or a toaster from the '50s is built like a tank, and if you wanted to make one like that now it would cost a small fortune to produce. We can argue about whether those old appliances were "higher quality" or not, but the biggest point is that it was just made differently with different supply chains and with a different labor force.
And, Leo did SOMETIMES make decisions based on quality/tone. The factories were hand winding pickups when machine winding would have been far more efficient and well within their technological means. But, a sheet of "cold rolled steel" was going to be as generic as it got.
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Post by funkykikuchiyo on Sept 3, 2022 10:00:14 GMT -5
In the boutique saddle replacement world I keep hearing about how the hole is supposed to be longer like the vintage ones... but I've never seen a vintage saddle with the longer hole. It came up here recently so I decided to pay attention when I see it in my shop. I have a '67 Strat in right now, and it has saddles that are pretty much like the new ones, and about a month ago we had a Mary Kaye - I took a picture of the bridge, and it had the shorter string holes, too. That was a '56, I think. This is assuming the boutique saddle people are saying the super long style like they have is the true to original - if they just mean that it is slightly longer then that might be true, but if so it is not obvious to the naked eye.
There are some differences. The exact contour in the stamp is slightly different, but hard to describe. The height screws usually feel like they move more cleanly and snugly than on the newer ones which seem to bounce around a bit more. And I would guess (and this really is just a guess) that if you pulled them off and put a caliper to them, they'd be slightly thicker. My bet is if you sent it off to a lab, the metal itself would be different, since steel manufacturing has morphed over the years. And of course, the lettering is always different.
Vintage Strats are funny. I had a customer who got an all original '63 at a pawn shop for cheap because it was missing the decal and the guy thought it was a fake. We get used to seeing the "relics" and so forth that when we see the original it doesn't quite look right. The knobs are always funny to me - the exact size and shape was different in the '50s and '60s ones, the angle of the taper and texture of the knurls is different, and the size of the skirt where the numbers are is a bit different. The finishes were kinda thick and don't really age/wear out the same way they duplicate on the relics.
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Post by pcalu on Sept 3, 2022 19:04:09 GMT -5
IMO Fender is underrated in this dept and also in the pickup Dept
One of my main tele's is an 2016 American Pro with a HS configuration, has an old school stamped strat bridge and saddles. It's my "all things rock guitar" plays like butter and sustains very well. So well, that I've never thought about changing them. (in fact the whole guitar get's it done... and it's all stock.)
Imo, once you get into the top end of MIM or anything MIJ ... and of course, the made on Corona USA line, with the previous, the bridge and pups are pretty much quality.
However.. Rutters saddles are all I use... I don't know what he does to make them sound the way they do... I use both steel and the brass.
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Post by samspade on Sept 4, 2022 11:06:47 GMT -5
One thing to check with bent saddles is if the threaded feet are actually in contact with the bridge plate and at a flat angle. not sure why this seems to be more of a problem with bent saddles for me
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Post by Auf Kiltre on Sept 4, 2022 11:22:34 GMT -5
Concerning the OP, if the question is motivated by worn/grooved saddles on an actual pre-CBS Strat, AND original aesthetics are important to you, then I wouldn't hesitate buying the current production stamped model. I see Fender offers "Road Worn saddles", I don't know if they're the correct spacing, but if they are they may be less conspicuous looking on a vintage instrument.
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Post by samspade on Sept 4, 2022 11:34:24 GMT -5
Yep, now that Fender has a lot of parts available, there are great replacements available, unless you're in the camp that Fender now sucks and all after-market retailers are superior.
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Post by Auf Kiltre on Sept 4, 2022 12:02:34 GMT -5
I was searching for specifics and came across some discussion of this cold rolled steel vs that, it reminded me of the epic pizzing match on the old FDP between Callaham and someone from Fender(?).
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Post by samspade on Sept 4, 2022 16:36:58 GMT -5
hahaha, yeah, then getting into trem blocks and arm thickness arguments....that's when you pull up a chair and get a snack  |
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Post by bluzcat on Sept 4, 2022 21:31:29 GMT -5
I was searching for specifics and came across some discussion of this cold rolled steel vs that, it reminded me of the epic pizzing match on the old FDP between Callaham and someone from Fender(?). John Page I think… |
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