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Post by windmill on Oct 21, 2022 18:55:27 GMT -5
For some reason I had always thought that an amp that cost as much as a guitar was expensive.
Perhaps it was just that I wanted the guitar, an amp was just a necessary extra cost.
During the recent lock downs over here the GAS bug bit. A Carr Mercury amp came up for sale over my way. It was the first used one I had seen for sale over here. But I thought the price was expensive. So I ummed and ahhed and it was sold while I was thinking about it.
This caused me to have a think about my attitude to the pricing of amps.
I realised that if it had been a guitar I had been looking for, I would snapped it up instantly. In fact, if I had sold a guitar it probably would not have cost any extra money out of my pocket.
So I started on a search for some of the upper end modern amps over this way and realised that I had brought guitars that cost more than just about all of those amps, but I still
regarded the amps as "too" expensive.
So, one of the lessons learnt in life has been "quality pays for itself, always buy the best you can afford." Together with my father's advice, "that you will never be happy till you have want you want, so just get it. In a years time you will be happy you have it and won't be worried about what it cost"
So now amps are no longer looking expensive and I have the GAS.
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Post by reverendrob on Oct 22, 2022 7:04:13 GMT -5
The right amp will inspire you to play what you have more, and want for less in the long run as well.
If you're happy with your sound, you're going to be more playing, less shopping.
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Post by funkykikuchiyo on Oct 22, 2022 10:00:36 GMT -5
Yeah. I figured out very quickly in my first year working at a music store where I got to have my hands on all kinds of gear every day that the amp is far more important to tone. It isn't the thing you're touching and it isn't the thing hanging from your belly facing out towards an audience so it is easily forgotten, but it is true. You can plug a Squier or Epiphone into a nice amp and get a better tone than a boutique guitar plugged into a budget amp every time. If you want to nail the sound on a recording, you're going to do better to duplicate the amp setup more than the guitar set up. With some amps, two very different guitars can sometimes sound very similar when plugged in. I knew a guitar teacher that was consistent in telling his students to always plug in when practicing. He'd say "when you're playing the guitar, you're REALLY playing the amp". He's not wrong.
Carr is a cool company. They're the only one I know of (of a certain size, anyway) that is prudently borrowing stuff from the hi-fi/audiophile world to make better guitar amps, instead of just doing variations of vintage circuits. As I get older I find I really like the kind of tone that uses those insufferable words to describe it like "natural", "transparent", "detailed", "depth", "woody"... and the choices Carr makes seem to do better for that kind of thing than just varying levels of gain and EQ. It is like most guitar amps sound like you're listening to music through a little bluetooth speaker, and then you get a chance to listen through a really nice stereo. Suddenly you can hear string squeak, kick drum pedals rocking, sax pads clacking, piano dampers moving back and forth... but that isn't how a lot of amp designers think these days. I'm not sure there is much money out there for people who want to go down that road with everything going digital, but I'm glad someone out there is thinking about it. I just wish they'd do more with 10-inch speaker configurations.
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Post by Lesterstrat on Oct 28, 2022 14:10:07 GMT -5
Play acoustic. Problem solved.
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Post by Leftee on Oct 28, 2022 15:00:21 GMT -5
I’m kinda all over the map regarding this topic. Oddly enough my most expensive amp and and my most expensive guitar cost about the same.
The guitar (2017 LP Trad) probably prices out 10% more than I paid for it.
The amp (‘76 Marshall 1987) has probably gained in the the neighborhood of 50% more than I paid for it.
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Post by Peegoo 🏁 on Oct 29, 2022 6:14:50 GMT -5
It is still quite common for a typical guitar player to buy the guitar they want and then consider the amp. It makes plenty of sense because the guitar is the half of the pair the player directly engages. It's a very personal thing.
Few players go the other way; Pete Townshend is one of these types. He always started with the amp and then paired the guitar to it.
I'm of the belief that the amp is somewhere around 75% of a player's tone. I'm probably low on that number. I have owned some really primo amps in the past, and I still have a few that are rare or iconic for their time. They all get played.
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Post by funkykikuchiyo on Oct 29, 2022 13:11:11 GMT -5
Another thought I have from time to time is that the duplication of vintage gear seems to be much further behind on amps than on guitars. I work on a lot of vintage guitars and I'm under no illusion that many builders are nearly as good at duplicating "vintage" as they want you to believe, but you can get something that has the same feel/vibe as a vintage piece pretty easily. In a lot of cases, you can get something decent more reliably, since a lot of vintage guitars are real dogs. Vintage amps on the other hand, always seem to sound a bit different. It might come down to speakers and nothing else, but I've heard it when new speakers are used as well. Amps seem a lot more quantitative in nature and should be easier to decode, but it doesn't seem to happen as often. Granted, I haven't gone down a very deep rabbit hole with vintage repro transformers or anything, but I still find it kinda funny.
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Post by reverendrob on Oct 30, 2022 0:56:13 GMT -5
I'm sure you can get "vintage correct" transformers and whatnot since they do all sorts of insane repros of expensive mics and tube preamps since..well, have you seen the price on a real vintage Pultec these days?
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Post by budg on Oct 30, 2022 5:42:04 GMT -5
This guitar cost vs amp cost is all over the map . If I were just starting out , I would absolutely spend more on the amp. Used you can get a decent amp for under 500 . Easy to find a solid guitar used for around 300 or less. That being said , now that I’ve been playing for a while , my main amps are a drri that I bought new for around 900 and a 59 bmri I bought for under 800. My cheapest guitar cost more than either of those. Once you throw boutique amps into the mix, you can throw reasoning out the window. For me my best mileage comes from about a 50/50 split.
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Post by funkykikuchiyo on Oct 30, 2022 12:15:39 GMT -5
I'm sure you can get "vintage correct" transformers and whatnot since they do all sorts of insane repros of expensive mics and tube preamps since..well, have you seen the price on a real vintage Pultec these days? Yeah, that just isn't a rabbit hole I've gone down. I'm sure when the repros are being made they're still doing a series of things they feel to be improvements, like higher spec parts or whatever. It could just be that no one cares enough to be making them that authentic... like if a reissue Strat had a Floyd on it or something.
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Post by reverendrob on Nov 1, 2022 8:17:39 GMT -5
It's all available.
A bunch of companies make things the 'old" way, and some still use NOS RCA ribbons to rebuild mics, et al.
Frankly, I'm happy with my $400 Behringer Pultec, myself.
it does the thing far better than any plugin I've touched, and has that magic.
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Post by cedarchoper58 on Nov 10, 2022 11:11:28 GMT -5
All depends on what ya want. Vintage amps cost a lot as do hihg end or custom shop guitars
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Post by LeftyMeister on Nov 10, 2022 16:04:01 GMT -5
I'm of the belief that the amp is somewhere around 75% of a player's tone. Yep! There's a saying that one can plug a crappy guitar into a stellar amp and still make it sound good, but not necessarily visa-versa.
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Post by rickyguitar on Nov 20, 2022 19:31:07 GMT -5
I start with the guitar. When I have one that works for me I shop for an amp that will accommodate us both. I never want price to be a factor, but it always is. However, my priciest guitar WAS more than my priciest amp.
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Post by reverendrob on Nov 20, 2022 23:44:56 GMT -5
If the guitar doesn't inspire me to play, I couldn't care less how good the amp is.
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Post by Leftee on Nov 21, 2022 9:07:46 GMT -5
If the guitar doesn't inspire me to play, I couldn't care less how good the amp is. Same with an amp in my world. Guitar/amp pairings are a singular instrument.
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Post by LeftyMeister on Nov 21, 2022 9:11:49 GMT -5
Guitar/amp pairings are a singular instrument. Agreed! My Maz 18 is the closest I've come to a Swiss Army Amp. The 3-band EQ is very dynamic and can simulate a Vox with the mids cranked or a Fender with the scooped mids, but it's still not the same as either amp. It does seem to prefer buckers over SC's unless the amp is cranked. Then the SC's will shine. But how often can you crank a Z? They're LOUD.
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Post by reverendrob on Nov 21, 2022 12:31:19 GMT -5
If the guitar doesn't inspire me to play, I couldn't care less how good the amp is. Same with an amp in my world. Guitar/amp pairings are a singular instrument. I can be inspired with the right unplugged electric. It doesn't work that way for me with an mp. A good amp will make me want to play a crappier guitar, but...that feel is everything. It's also why I gravitate towards one instrument MOST of the time, even when I have more than a dozen on hand.
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