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Post by funkykikuchiyo on Nov 26, 2022 15:22:05 GMT -5
Some electrics have amazing tone, but relegate themselves to being one trick ponies. They have such a recognizable sound that they inspire entire sub-genres, and a few notes/chords out of one can recall lots of big hits. Think some weird, old Dan Electro. Or, a Ric 12-string. Maybe an Epiphone Casino or a Fender Mustang. That janky old Harmony with the awesome pickups that you fixed up and got going.
Other electrics are functional. The guitar player wants to be able to play anywhere on the neck and get a good tone, they want clean and dirty, they don't want to ever wrestle the guitar into submission. A lot of modern, fusion guitars are like this. For a lot of people (not everyone), this is where PRS is, or various shredder instruments/Super Strats. They can occasionally sound like a guitar patch on a keyboard.
I like guitars that do both really well. A really good Tele does both of these, but not all do that. Some are all twang and only work for bouncy country licks, some are very flat. The kind of Tele where there is loads of personality but you're also playing virtually anything can be hard to find. The ES-335 is like that. People have called that a versatile guitar for a long time, but it isn't because you can dial in lots of sounds - you can't really dial in any more than any other two pickup guitar. It just has no set genre of music. It is friendly in any fingerboard position. But, it isn't flat and uninteresting, either, though some of them can be kinda shrill and nasal. I think this is where designing electric guitars is truly challenging. You can make a quirky instrument that'll sound super cool for certain things pretty easily. Making a flat, transparent, utilitarian instrument just requires good building skills, or even just knowing how to put together a Warmoth project. Getting both is really hard.
What are your favorites? Which have been your go-tos in your collections over the years?
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Post by ninworks on Nov 26, 2022 17:50:09 GMT -5
My main player these days is a 2013 Gibson 60's Tribute Les Paul that I put an ABR-1 bridge a featherweight tailpiece, and had a new nut made with just a smidge wider string spread. That one is a MONSTER. Up until I got that my 62 White and Gold SG Custom was the main one. It still is the most stable guitar I own. I never have to do anything to it other than change strings and maybe tweak the intonation a little. The neck is rock-solid. I moved from Phoenix to Nashville and didn't have to make any adjustments whatsoever. I did wire a 2 position slider switch into the control cavity backing plate decades ago that allows me to get a few different pickup combinations over the 3 stock settings it had. It would be my desert island guitar if there was electricity.  Since I got the wider Musikraft neck with the compound radius for my 72 Strat it has moved up in the rankings considerably. I put 008 strings on it and now I can actually play it. The longer scale and narrow neck it used to have made me only play it when I needed that sound for a track I was working on. Then it went right back into the case until the next time. I actually leave it out and play it regularly now. I have a 2008 Custom Shop Gibson CS356 that is a really great guitar. Every time I get it out I think I should play it more often. It sounds and plays great. It's my mini-ES335. I had to have it re-fretted right after I bought it because the neck was twisted. I had the neck re-planed and put jumbo frets on it as well. Also had another nut with a wider string spread put on it too. Other than that it's all stock. It's in pristine condition. Not a scratch on it anywhere. That's why I don't leave it out. I have 3 indoor dogs and one of them is young. I don't want them messing it up. Then there's the Johnson Tele copy I had refretted with jumbo frets and changed out the pickups, bridge, ash tray, nut, and hardware and also made it a string-through. It's my secret weapon when doing recording sessions. It seems to work on any track at any time. The sound just fits into whatever is on the track. It never fails. I tell guys, "Don't let the name on the headstock fool ya." The Les Paul is kind of a one trick pony but it's a Clydesdale. That should tell you something. The SG is very versatile. It will get that Stratty bridge-center pickup combination sound, it's own PAF thing, and I can actually get all 3 pickups and use the pots to change the balance between the neck and the B-C selection. I can also get the conventional Gibson neck and bridge pickup combination that the original selector wouldn't get. Stock it was neck, B-C combo, and bridge selections only. It sounds Gibsonny but not as beefy as the Les Paul. There is a lot of magic in that one using the volume and tone pots. |
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Post by LTB on Nov 26, 2022 18:02:17 GMT -5
I never owned an ES-335 but the two I played (one in the early 70's) and one in the 80's but might have been made in the 70's did not play well, needed work on the neck or intonated or perhaps both. I would have loved to have one but not if they were all like these 2. They couldn't be that popular if they were all like those two I played.
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Post by reverendrob on Nov 26, 2022 19:04:05 GMT -5
While I use it as a "one trick pony" these days, the Mustang used to be my go-to in the old days. I had a very very hot stacked bucker in a single coil in the neck position, and it'd do damned near anything I wanted with the right coaxing. It and I just got along The one trick that no other guitar does quite the same is the "Mustang Harmonic" where you can Pink Floyd whale sounds fretting out on the neck pickup (slanted, at just that point in the 24" scale). I pull one out now when I need that or am trying to touch base with what I was a long long time ago.
My Les Paul High Performance things check all my boxes though, so much I bought two and I'm not exactly high income these days. I play them like I've played no other thing in my life, to a point where the beloved tools of twenty years have seen almost no use these last six years now! Slightly wider fretboard, with room on either side of the E strings for ONCE (string spacing is the same), titanium bridge/zero fret nut, ton of DIP switches for 'no solder" tone mods, and the Axcess neck joint for upper fret access. Basically a shredder's version of the Les Paul Recording with the LP custom standard pickups (490R/498T) that are my favorite in a LP.
The only thing I can't use it for is whammy bar stupid, which I don't do much anyway.
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Post by funkykikuchiyo on Nov 26, 2022 20:09:54 GMT -5
The Les Paul is kind of a one trick pony but it's a Clydesdale. That should tell you something. The SG is very versatile. Funny you should mention that, I always felt a good SG was more versatile. I mean that in the sense that when I'm playing it, I'm just thinking about playing and the fingerboard, and not the guitar itself. If I'm playing a Les Paul, as great as it is, I'm always aware that it is an LP and has the quirks of an LP. It gets better if you have good pickups in there and the lightweight bar like you have seems to help too, but that has always been my experience. Basically, the closer to authentic '59 it gets, the less one-trick-pony it seems to me.
335s are weird. They have long necks and suffer from bad tone if they're too thin. Many vintage ones have bridges in the wrong place and/or bad neck angles. Mine is a 2005 and I like it a lot, but the newest ones sound better. They're odd - there is a maple block in there, but also kerfed pieces of spruce to keep contact with the arched top and back, and I have a funny feeling that the construction down in there has varied over the years giving some a stiffer, drier, more solid body tone and others a more round acoustic vibe. I haven't confirmed that, though. I've also always wondered what would happen if you just made that whole center block out of spruce, or at least more of it from spruce as a sort of weight relief thing. (One of those "when I win the lottery" experiment ideas.)
Gretsches are funny, too. The high end vintage correct ones win for character, especially when you get those straight bar bridges (I forget what they're called) the ebony board and ginormous tuners, but the cheaper import ones feel more functional and less painted into a corner. My Electromatic goes through phases of being my out-on-a-stand guitar and it feels appropriate for practicing a lot of different things. I love a good White Falcon, but that is one where I feel like the instrument dictates what and how I play.
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Post by reverendrob on Nov 26, 2022 21:34:05 GMT -5
I'm simple in that the further it is from the '59 the happier I am in practice - I want improvements on the model, and a few accommodations for being a weirdo *and* a 6'8" monster. I'm the kiss of death on Gibsons - if I love a model, they get discontinued FAST.
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Post by funkykikuchiyo on Nov 27, 2022 9:07:55 GMT -5
I'm simple in that the further it is from the '59 the happier I am in practice - I want improvements on the model, and a few accommodations for being a weirdo *and* a 6'8" monster. I'm the kiss of death on Gibsons - if I love a model, they get discontinued FAST. I'm all for improvements, but I just don't think many improvements are thought out well. Usually improvements are thinner necks, locking tuners and hotter pickups, and I prefer thicker necks, high quality, light weight standard tuners, and medium wound pickups.
The "Mr. Potato Head" style of guitar design is one I've ranted about a lot, though.
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Post by funkykikuchiyo on Nov 27, 2022 9:32:06 GMT -5
In fact, the idea that "they got it right when they first invented it" involves a level of romance that I've long since lost for instrument design. I've worked on plenty to realize that old instruments were factory made pieces where they were just trying to get stuff out the door at the end of the shift like any other company. Both "vintage" and "modern" are cul-du-sacs as far as I'm concerned. Just figure out what makes guitars sound good from either camp and do your best with that.
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Post by LTB on Nov 27, 2022 9:32:19 GMT -5
I'm simple in that the further it is from the '59 the happier I am in practice - I want improvements on the model, and a few accommodations for being a weirdo *and* a 6'8" monster. I'm the kiss of death on Gibsons - if I love a model, they get discontinued FAST. I'm all for improvements, but I just don't think many improvements are thought out well. Usually improvements are thinner necks, locking tuners and hotter pickups, and I prefer thicker necks, high quality, light weight standard tuners, and medium wound pickups.
The "Mr. Potato Head" style of guitar design is one I've ranted about a lot, though.
And how about the robotic tuners! 🙄 |
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Post by funkykikuchiyo on Nov 27, 2022 9:41:37 GMT -5
I'm all for improvements, but I just don't think many improvements are thought out well. Usually improvements are thinner necks, locking tuners and hotter pickups, and I prefer thicker necks, high quality, light weight standard tuners, and medium wound pickups.
The "Mr. Potato Head" style of guitar design is one I've ranted about a lot, though.
And how about the robotic tuners! 🙄 I call that category "solution seeking a problem". |
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Post by langford on Nov 27, 2022 10:02:47 GMT -5
If I could only have one guitar, it would be a good-quality Tele (though it doesn't have to be a Fender). I find them quite versatile in the standard build while also having a character of their own. Best of both worlds, IMO. Plus, I love the look and have a big emotional attachment to the design.
I have an awesome Tele at the moment. A guy who works in my neighbourhood built it from his old workbench, with a set of pickups from an excellent local winder named McNally. I'd say that's my No. 1 guitar, but it's not necessary the one I play the most. There are many more instruments in the collection and all of them get their turn in the spotlight over the course of a year. At the moment, my go-to is as an Eastman E8 OM acoustic, another fine guitar.
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Post by samspade on Nov 27, 2022 12:29:47 GMT -5
Some electrics have amazing tone, but relegate themselves to being one trick ponies I totally agree with this and a lot of studios have a variety of 'types' to get a certain color. Some people like these so much, they become a main guitar. I also buy these representative guitars. If I am playing and do want something really versatile, it is gonna be like a super strat HSS. It just covers more and has a trem. There are times though when you want to mix it up, challenge yourself and bring something like a Ric if you know the band is gonna wanna do some metal lol. |
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Post by Peegoo 🏁 on Nov 27, 2022 12:49:16 GMT -5
Many players assume guitars like the Esquire and Les Paul Junior are one-trick ponies because they have only one pickup. This may be the case for them because they've never really spent a lot of time with the guitar to discover just how many sounds are in there. Granted, many famous players that used these, e.g., Johnny Thunders and Leslie West, had pretty much one sound all the time. That does not mean the guitar was the limitation. It was simply the player's preference. An Esquire and Junior are supremely versatile for being so simple. The most versatile guitar I have the pleasure of owning is a CS '63 Telecaster, Time Machine series. It can do twang and it can roar like a beast and everything in between. It is the perfect guitar for me because the neck perfectly fits my hand. Tuning on this is rock solid, and it will go weeks between tunings (really). I've had it for 20 years and it has never broken down.  Probably my #2 is a 2014 Les Paul R8. I took more than a year to find this one; I played hundreds during my search and some came close, but there was just a lack of that unquantifiable 'thing'. When I played this one, I knew right away it was the one. And having owned it for a few years now, I can confidently say it's the absolute best Les Paul I've ever had my hands on. It may not be my #2, because sometimes it feels like it might be #1. You may have heard, "a truly great Les Paul is like a Telecaster on steroids." I agree because this guitar can twang when rolled back, and it can do stooge rock when cranked up. I consider myself very fortunate to have these guitars because they are perfect in every way.  |
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Post by ninworks on Nov 27, 2022 12:50:36 GMT -5
The Les Paul is kind of a one trick pony but it's a Clydesdale. That should tell you something. The SG is very versatile. I'm just thinking about playing and the fingerboard, and not the guitar itself. If I'm playing a Les Paul, as great as it is, I'm always aware that it is an LP and has the quirks of an LP.
Yeah, the 2nd and 3rd string intonation problems on a Les Paul are always a problem. Other guitars have that as well but it seems to be more pronounced on a Les Paul. Anytime I'm playing a 2nd, 3rd, and 4th, string, triad, it always requires a little English to make it sound in tune. It's not a grip or intonation thing, it's a Les Paul thing. Other than the fingerboard being a little narrower than I need that's my only other issue with them. |
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Post by Auf Kiltre on Nov 27, 2022 16:14:42 GMT -5
I have more guitars than I need and particularly in the Strat variety. I like much of the "vintage" aspects of Fenders; a beefier/lightly vee'd neck, vintage radius and frets although several have 9.5/10 inch radius and 6105 frets. I prefer vintage tuners and a floating trem. Its what I grew up with and feel most comfortable playing. I have one Strat creation with dual humbuckers, a Gibson scale neck that has 6150 frets and a 10-16 compound with an American Standard trem unit. I have a 50's Trib Goldtop with dual P90s. A Gretsch 5420TG that's wonderful despite little play time. A Squire Strat partscaster with a 10-16 compound setup for C tuning. An Epi ES-335 Pro with a ghastly thin neck.
Everything in my collection offers some variation with some redundancies, but realistically I could make do with 1 Strat and 1 Tele. The rest of the collection offers only diminished returns for my skill set and are just frivolous creations or acquisitions that I should probably reevaluate.
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Post by funkykikuchiyo on Nov 27, 2022 18:44:16 GMT -5
I'm just thinking about playing and the fingerboard, and not the guitar itself. If I'm playing a Les Paul, as great as it is, I'm always aware that it is an LP and has the quirks of an LP.
Yeah, the 2nd and 3rd string intonation problems on a Les Paul are always a problem. Other guitars have that as well but it seems to be more pronounced on a Les Paul. Anytime I'm playing a 2nd, 3rd, and 4th, string, triad, it always requires a little English to make it sound in tune. It's not a grip or intonation thing, it's a Les Paul thing. Other than the fingerboard being a little narrower than I need that's my only other issue with them. Interesting. There's no logical reason why an LP would be less in tune, all other things being equal. The only thing I can think of is that the tone makes it more obvious. An acoustic guitar's tone is such that the fundamental isn't strong enough for us to care when the intonation is off, and sometimes it can be off quite a bit and no one ever notices. The same thing on an electric would be intolerable. Maybe an LP is some step beyond that? So, those are normal guitar fugly spots that are more obvious with such a strong fundamental?
I have also noticed that Gibsons benefit more from/are in need of compensated nuts than other guitars. I'm not really sure why. I don't think Gibson is in the habit of making that nut-first fret gap any larger than other makers. It doesn't seem to be true for other brands doing the 24 3/4" or 24 5/8" scales, either. I wonder if you'd find a Buzz Feiten mod to an LP to be more beneficial than to another guitar?
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Post by ninworks on Nov 27, 2022 21:32:33 GMT -5
It would be an interesting experiment. Perhaps it's the shorter scale length that has someting to do with it. I dunno. All I know is that no matter how I intonate or tune it, the 2nd 3rd and 4th strings, when played together simultaneously, beats a little out of tune unless I either press the 4th string harder or have to bend it slightly to make it in tune with the others. 'A' shaped barre chords on those 3 strings or 5th intervals played using the 4th and 2nd strings are always a little off. If I tune the guitar where they sound correct the open D (4th) string is flat enough it bothers me. A compensated nut could be the answer. There are just a handful of note combinations where there is a problem and I know where they are so I try to stay away from them if possible.
I just learned to live with it and try to minimize using note combinations where that problem lives unless it's unavoidable. If I'm recording a track I will retune the guitar when those parts are necessary. Mind you, the problem is not terrible, it's ever so slight. It's not even noticeable unless the notes are sustained long enough to hear the beating between the intervals. I subconsciously bend the D string to correct it. Using the 1st fret on the G string for any kind of chord note where major 3rd or 5th intervals are involved is absolutely out of the question about 80% of the time. Overdrive exercerbates the problem. I have noticed my SG has a similar problem but some of it is the dreaded 3 pickup magnetic field thing like Strats have. I would imagine that 3 PAF's have a lot more magnetic influence on the strings that 3 single coil Strat pickups.
I think I may need a PRS to eliminate or at least minimize those issues. Never had one but have heard really good things about them.
I love my Gibsons. I consider myself a Gibson guy above anything else but the 2nd 3rd and 4th string thing is something that has always annoyed me a bit. In a band situation others probably wouldn't hear it but, I do. I'm a picky sum of a bun. My tuning sense is very acute. I can't go to a Guitar Center on a weekend.
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Post by Auf Kiltre on Nov 27, 2022 21:54:22 GMT -5
I've had an Earvana nut solve that specific problem on an ES-333.
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Post by funkykikuchiyo on Nov 27, 2022 22:24:03 GMT -5
Yeah, my 335 has a Buzz Feiten because without it a F major in the 1st fret is unbearable. I think I'd do the same to any Gibson I own. Just from having endless guitars on the bench, it seems to hit them the most. No idea why, but I've talked to other people who have noticed it as well.
In theory, the SG should do it too since it has the same scale. Same hardware, and probably the same layout jigs/equipment setting fret slots, assuming manufacturing periods are the same, but you seem to say this applies to most/all LPs for you, so that doesn't seem to be a variable. All I'm left with is tone, that the sound of the instrument just makes it more obnoxious. Kinda like how when a got a hi-def TV, I could see all of the makeup on the newscasters suddenly.
The buzz feiten intonates differently, and it has the B and E slightly sharp, but that would probably be the opposite if you're bending the 4th string sharp. Does it matter which triad? Like, it is a specific interval that you're trying to pull in close/make further apart?
(To an earlier topic, fixing tunings is a piece of modern design that is very much underrated! I wish companies worked on this as much as they worry about extra switches or locking tuners.)
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Post by reverendrob on Nov 27, 2022 23:58:00 GMT -5
I'm all for improvements, but I just don't think many improvements are thought out well. Usually improvements are thinner necks, locking tuners and hotter pickups, and I prefer thicker necks, high quality, light weight standard tuners, and medium wound pickups.
The "Mr. Potato Head" style of guitar design is one I've ranted about a lot, though.
And how about the robotic tuners! 🙄 I like them to a point where I put them on ALL my other Gibsons! |
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Post by reverendrob on Nov 28, 2022 0:08:27 GMT -5
Yeah, my 335 has a Buzz Feiten because without it a F major in the 1st fret is unbearable. I think I'd do the same to any Gibson I own. Just from having endless guitars on the bench, it seems to hit them the most. No idea why, but I've talked to other people who have noticed it as well. In theory, the SG should do it too since it has the same scale. Same hardware, and probably the same layout jigs/equipment setting fret slots, assuming manufacturing periods are the same, but you seem to say this applies to most/all LPs for you, so that doesn't seem to be a variable. All I'm left with is tone, that the sound of the instrument just makes it more obnoxious. Kinda like how when a got a hi-def TV, I could see all of the makeup on the newscasters suddenly. The buzz feiten intonates differently, and it has the B and E slightly sharp, but that would probably be the opposite if you're bending the 4th string sharp. Does it matter which triad? Like, it is a specific interval that you're trying to pull in close/make further apart? (To an earlier topic, fixing tunings is a piece of modern design that is very much underrated! I wish companies worked on this as much as they worry about extra switches or locking tuners.) The zero fret titanium not on my LP HPs solved that problem out of the box. |
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Post by ninworks on Nov 28, 2022 6:53:50 GMT -5
My problem with a compensated nut is that I've had my string spread widened a bit from the stock spacing. It would be a step backwards in playability to go back to a standard spread. That would be a huge step back on the SG. When I had it refretted in the early 2000's I had the frets extended out over the binding on the neck and had the string spacing widened considerably. I'll just live with it.
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Post by reverendrob on Nov 28, 2022 8:48:59 GMT -5
Makes sense to me.
one of the things I REALLY like on the LP HPs is the wider fretboard - but with normal spacing.
I'm not pushing the Es off the board for the first time in 30 years!
I didn't even consider it a possibility to be done, or I'd have built one long before with that!
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RogerD
Wholenote
Fraternity, Dedication, & Passion
Posts: 181
Formerly Known As: Roger D
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Post by RogerD on Nov 28, 2022 11:44:13 GMT -5
My venture into the versatility realm was to try them all.
I tend to lean toward the classic vintage types. Hence this menagerie;
Ash body, Maple neck Fender Strat (SSS)
Ash body, Maple neck Fender Telecaster (Fender Broadcaster pups)
2014 Les Paul Traditional with the ’59 Tribute pups
Yamaha SA-2200 (ES-335 Copy)
Gretsch 6120 Brian Setzer ‘Smoke’ model with Ray Butts Ful-Fidelity pups
I did have an HSS Strat (Lone Star), once upon a time, but it was traded toward the Gretsch
These pretty much cover all of the bases for me.
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Post by markfromhawaii on Nov 28, 2022 11:49:27 GMT -5
The best electric I have in terms of playability and tone is a PRS Custom 24. I have this weird thing where I only take it out occasionally, thinking that it’ll spoil me to the point of sloppy playing when grabbing other guitars. My main guitar when recording or playing out is a Godin LGXT, because of its piezo pickups and 13-pin connector. Mixing its humbuckers and the piezos, I can get electric and acoustic-ish sounds, and I can use it with my Roland GR-55.
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