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Post by Auf Kiltre on Jan 5, 2023 19:30:53 GMT -5
I'm told my incoming Tele body is sanded flat to 150 before being machined and will probably want to start with 120 grit around the edges/side. I'm going to apply pigmented amber shellac, aiming for a deeper, orangy amber. Honestly I'm ok with a bit of mystery result as long as it turns out ok.
Do I want to go beyond 220 grit or will that impede how the body takes the shellac? I'm thinking 120, 180, 220. Do I want to add 320 to my list?
I've done this before with shellac and know that its a more fragile finish than lacquer. I just haven't started with a body fresh off the CNC.
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Post by Leftee on Jan 5, 2023 20:21:00 GMT -5
I go to 320 as a personal preference. Some folks stop at 220.
Fwiw I start at 220. That’s always been enough to get the marks out of the wood from its received state.
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Post by Auf Kiltre on Jan 5, 2023 20:33:43 GMT -5
Thanks Leftee, I suppose I'll see how it goes up to 220 and decide from there.
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Post by Leftee on Jan 5, 2023 20:37:29 GMT -5
You might not want to start at 120. It depends how the body looks. I use the “least” that gets the job done. With the bodies I get from my guy, 220 is where I start.
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Post by funkykikuchiyo on Jan 5, 2023 21:57:35 GMT -5
I haven't worked with shellac much, but my guess is a water grain raising/knock down as a last step would give some good results?
And, I'd do 220 if the paper is good and if it is a rotary tool, it isn't leaving the little pigtails. Finishing with a piece that is worn would probably be good. A lower quality paper might leave some more lines that'll pop with the stain, so 320 might help cover yer butt.
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sirWheat
Wholenote
For a better future, play Stevie Wonder for your children.
Posts: 319
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Post by sirWheat on Jan 5, 2023 22:00:17 GMT -5
Sounds like they're talking about machining marks, you'll see when you get it. In which case I would start with 150 and see how it does first.
That whole "sanding to a high grit inhibits finish adhesion" thing is a bunch of hooey, I think. Sanding to a high grit doesn't make the pores in the wood any smaller. I higher grit may be necessary if you're using a non "building" finish like a wax or oil but shellac, urethane, etc. will fill in the sanding "scratches" of 150-grit. That said, I'm a cabinet maker and usually sand to 180 despite the fact that the guys who do the finishing tell me that 150 is fine. One reason to go a little higher (especially with something like a guitar) is that more sanding means more scrutiny. It's real easy to miss that errant fingernail drag only to see it glaring at you after this finish is applied.
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sirWheat
Wholenote
For a better future, play Stevie Wonder for your children.
Posts: 319
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Post by sirWheat on Jan 5, 2023 22:01:57 GMT -5
Good point Funky, those (now) old vibrator sanders will drive you crazy. Random orbital is the way to go.
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Post by Auf Kiltre on Jan 6, 2023 7:50:29 GMT -5
No machinery here, all by hand. Thanks for weighing in gents.
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Post by Leftee on Jan 6, 2023 8:02:28 GMT -5
I’ve given up on machine-sanding of bodies.
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Post by Auf Kiltre on Jan 6, 2023 16:37:21 GMT -5
Well this is a bit of disappointment. Sanding to 220 grit then wetting it down and this appears. Despite looking bubbled and raised, these visual boogers are not, its flat and smooth and completely non visible until wiped down. 2nd pic is contrast boosted to enhance the areas. Man, I was really hoping not to do a solid finish on this guitar. 😐   |
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Post by Leftee on Jan 6, 2023 19:00:40 GMT -5
That’s flame!
Sorta
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Post by Auf Kiltre on Jan 6, 2023 20:12:26 GMT -5
Yeah. Clunky Flame. 😕
I may just roll with it.
Klunckhammer. 😄
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Post by Leftee on Jan 6, 2023 21:01:25 GMT -5
I would.
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Post by funkykikuchiyo on Jan 7, 2023 11:32:37 GMT -5
That whole "sanding to a high grit inhibits finish adhesion" thing is a bunch of hooey, I think. Sanding to a high grit doesn't make the pores in the wood any smaller. Ah, I didn't make the connection that might be the motivation to stopping a lower grit. I just figured it was a matter of diminishing returns. I wonder how that idea started - maybe lazy surface prep before finishing, and the finer dust wasn't taken off?
One issue I see sometimes with higher grits is that as they load up the paper, it can mean bad sanding habits of working very small spots and the nice flat front of a guitar body becomes wavy. I see that a lot on DIY stuff that comes through the shop - usually when someone is trying to strip a finish, so maybe not applicable. AK's more advanced than those monkeys, too.
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Post by Auf Kiltre on Jan 7, 2023 13:52:33 GMT -5
Oh trust me, I'm still a monkey...oo oo ee ee. I'm just tenacious and don't know when to give up. The end grain on this body is wild. I keep raising it and knocking it back. Its starting to become less woolly.  |
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sirWheat
Wholenote
For a better future, play Stevie Wonder for your children.
Posts: 319
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Post by sirWheat on Jan 7, 2023 16:47:11 GMT -5
Nice! I wonder if those light spots will show through the shellac. I think it may not be so bad.
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Post by Peegoo 🏁 on Jan 11, 2023 11:57:58 GMT -5
That is looking great! Don't worry about that curl there, or ribbons, rays, etc., in the grain. That is all part of the beauty of wood, and it makes the guitar easily identifiable as yours. It's like a fingerprint. Here's a blast from the not-too-distant past. Sanding out a PRS core body, and this appeared.  |
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Post by Auf Kiltre on Jan 11, 2023 14:48:31 GMT -5
Hah...I'm kinda seeing a Labrador Retriever there.
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Post by funkykikuchiyo on Jan 11, 2023 22:15:22 GMT -5
These are the sanding pads that I've mentioned a few times but can never remember the name of. I like them when I might otherwise want to use higher grits but won't for some reason. Good for knocking down grain, and I like them in refrets to help clean up inlays and give a bit of a semi-gloss to hard woods. They're available in different "grits", though the numbers don't seem to have much correlation to the sandpaper grits, so I'm not sure how to determine which is best - I use the 500-600 the most, and they're all pretty gentle. You can easily cut them into small pieces and make them last a while. www.woodcraft.com/products/norton-softouch-superfine-sanding-sponge-500-600-grit?via=61e739bc61707000752aa1bb%2C5d112e2e776f6f0be9000984 |
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Post by Auf Kiltre on Jan 12, 2023 12:22:47 GMT -5
These are the sanding pads that I've mentioned a few times but can never remember the name of. I like them when I might otherwise want to use higher grits but won't for some reason. Good for knocking down grain, and I like them in refrets to help clean up inlays and give a bit of a semi-gloss to hard woods. They're available in different "grits", though the numbers don't seem to have much correlation to the sandpaper grits, so I'm not sure how to determine which is best - I use the 500-600 the most, and they're all pretty gentle. You can easily cut them into small pieces and make them last a while. www.woodcraft.com/products/norton-softouch-superfine-sanding-sponge-500-600-grit?via=61e739bc61707000752aa1bb%2C5d112e2e776f6f0be9000984Thanks funky, I went ahead ordered a couple of 3 different grits. Always good to add to the toolbox. |
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Post by Auf Kiltre on Jan 12, 2023 14:40:39 GMT -5
My choice of tint is definitely accentuating the "flame", which I'm assuming is maybe grain pattern affected (afflicted?) by growth of branches in these sections of wood. Not turning back now. Amber shellac/Everclear/Mixol orange and yellow. I did grain fill with aqua coat. My plan is to move into french polishing next. 🤞  |
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Post by Auf Kiltre on Jan 12, 2023 15:39:09 GMT -5
PSA. Do not french polish with tinted shellac unless you want varying shades of tint. 😐
Ooo eee ahh ahh
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Post by Leftee on Jan 13, 2023 8:36:26 GMT -5
To understand your workflow...
You're doing shots of Everclear throughout the process? 🥴
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Post by Auf Kiltre on Jan 16, 2023 19:39:18 GMT -5
Starting to turn into a Cinnamon Tele. Gonna take some thought about a pickguard. Maybe a carved leather one?  |
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Post by Leftee on Jan 16, 2023 20:09:44 GMT -5
“Like!”
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Post by Peegoo 🏁 on Jan 17, 2023 12:26:07 GMT -5
Hey now...that is looking good! Finishing with a piece that is worn would probably be good. Wanna know a really good sanding trick? This works with a random orbit sander (ROS), as well as a hand-sanding block. If all you have is 220 and need a smoother finish, do the following. Place a piece of the 220 face up on the bench and 'sand' it with your sander. If using a ROS, one second of contact with a very light touch is enough. With a sanding block, four or five scrubs with a light touch is enough. You'll now have two pieces of sandpaper that are much smoother than the original grit. It takes a little practice to get this move down, so practice it. If you do this with 320, it will sand most woods to an almost mirror shine, and finishes will still stick well. If you're applying a stain, you don't want to do this trick before staining because it can impede penetration of the stain. However, if you're sanding out a stain to create contrast, this is a very cool trick to getting a spectacular finish. Don't tell nobody I told you this  |
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Post by Leftee on Jan 17, 2023 12:49:31 GMT -5
I usually use 320 to sand back a stain for contrast.
But I’ve never sanded sandpaper. The insanity!!!
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Post by Auf Kiltre on Jan 17, 2023 15:43:11 GMT -5
I think Peegoo is an AI escapee that has vacuumed up all technical info on lutherie, analyzed it, perfected it, animated itself into a Guitar Sasquatch that is bent on roaming the interwebs. His goal is yet to be determined, some saying its a peaceful mission while others offer a cautionary note, posing the theory that his unmitigated "sharing of information" could have a nefarious end game. An army of droids appropriating a massive cache of perfected guitars could usher in the technological singularity in ways we cannot imagine.
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